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Why I won't be playing TOR.


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  • 5 weeks later...
The character designs look like something out of a low budget saturday morning cartoon. SWTOR offers nothing innovative to the genre despite their insistent behavior over how unique the story unfolds. While I am not a huge fan of the Force Unleashed, I would much rather see a Star Wars MMO similar in design and gameplay. Dark, gritty, over the top and set during a timeline most of us grew up loving.

 

Imo, The Force Unleashed is a collection of forced clichés in a canon-raping story. It's a good game, don't get me wrong. But it has nothing the old trilogy has. I don't think it gets much love from the first-hour fans. I mean....cloning, Vader, Yoda, reverse-grip lightsaber...it's an explosion of nerdgasm.

Swtor is trying to create a setting based on the movies and is much more subtle in doing so. It's using the movies as inspiration, not using everything IN the movies.

 

It is over-the-top epic though, have to give you that. But we haven't seen the lv 60 powers from ToR either...

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I, personally, am done with stories set in the timeline most of us grew up loving. That whole era has been milked out, whether it's in games, novels, comics or tv series, and none of it ever came close to the quality of the original trilogy.

 

I'm glad some people are steering away from this era, though not everyone is using that freedom to its full capacity. SWTOR is more than 3,000 years before the movies, but it still tries to connect as much as possible to the movies and in my opinion, actually not in a subtle way. Tie Fighters, Clone Troopers, Boba Fett, Moffs, Hoth, these are some of the results of the movies "inspiring" SWTOR.

 

I don't agree on SWTOR being better had they adapted a more action-y gameplay à la The Force Unleashed. I have only played a bit of TFU, but there's hardly much depth in its gameplay, something that I think is needed for games in the MMO genre. And I'm not pro-over the top gameplay, myself. Agreed, it's disappointing that SWTOR isn't trying to innovate when it comes to MMO gameplay (and keeps hiding behind the "story pillar" as if that was the one thing that was missing from MMO's) and it's precisely that aspect that will make or break the game, no matter how much effort they put into their storytelling. But I still prefer traditional MMO gameplay over TFU-based gameplay.

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I don't think that Bioware has to innovate anything in order to make this game a success. Why would they go out on a limb and try and design something completely new when they don't have to? All they have to do is do it in an outstanding fashion and they will draw subscribers. Blizzard didn't innovate a blasted thing when they brought out WoW, they simply did what everyone else was doing but they did it better, but then I'm an avid MMO player and I saw the difference between WoW and its predecessors.

 

For those concerned there's too much movie influence...what did you expect? I mean really, what did you honestly think they were going to do? This game, like any other product, has targeted demographics. Some of that is MMO players, some of that is OT fans, some of that is people who love the prequels(god help me there are some out there), some of that is KOTOR fans, etc...They have to use elements that Star Wars fans are familiar with but at the same time elements that someone who has never picked up a Star Wars game, book, or movie(god help me there are some of those too) can relate to.

 

I don't really think Bioware is "hiding" behind anything. They have been straight forward that they want to bring their kind of story telling to the Star Wars universe and the MMO genre. Say what you wish about Bioware's stories following "patterns" or whatever, but imho they still tell compelling stories in their games and that is evident by their game sales and critical success. I will definitely be playing TOR at some point even though there are things I dislike(the space combat for starters)I'm willing to give them a chance.

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I get that they need to attract as many people as possible. But as far as I know, the same was true for KotOR. And KotOR, while having very recognizable elements from Star Wars in it, was far more subtle than TOR seems to be. Besides, attracting Star Wars fans, whether they played KotOR or not, is as easy as showing lightsabers and having the pew pew pew sound. Combine that with BioWare's reputation, I'm sure they've got a lot of Star Wars fans in the bag, so making the game more unique, in my opinion, wouldn't have been a risk.

 

Convincing the Star Wars fans never was the main obstacle, I think, rather convincing the MMO fans is. At a time where developers start to experiment with the MMO genre and games like Guild Wars 2 crop up, it's hard to defend the traditional road BioWare is taking. The question is: will the Star Wars brand and the storyline(s) be enough to warrant the MMO players' backing?

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A solid point about KOTOR Miltiades and I think they Jedi thing is probably what drew people to KOTOR and will indeed by the thing that draws many SW fans to TOR.

 

As far as MMO players go..I think the biggest thing they have to overcome is Star Wars Galaxies and the way Sony $%*#@$ that up. Hopefully they will realize that Bioware is NOT SOE.

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@ Miltiades:

It's not as subtle as I had hoped no. The fighters and stuff just resemble the OT stuff a little too much. Kotor distanced itself a bit more.

If you look at the Tales of the Jedi comics though, that's a giant leap away.

 

In some way, we all want a naughty astromech droid, crew ship, bitchy princess, overpowered hairy alien and lightsaber and/or blaster....

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Looks like I'll be avoiding the space content... I'll wait until there's something in it that actually gives a reason it's online instead of what could be a downloadable demo. It's that kind of game that's fun for a bit, but after a while after repeating it got old. Like the Star Wars arcade game. I used to play that before movies... I certainly wouldn't have played it for much longer than wasting time before the movie starts. After beating it one time, it just feels like boring repetition.

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  • 2 months later...

The rail-shooting in TOR cannot be worse than the space combat in KotOR. What a cheap pain in the ass that always was. Not interesting, not hard, not fun. TOR space combat reminds me a lot of that, except that it looks aesthetically pleasing. I'll take it for what it is.

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  • 7 months later...
  • 1 month later...
Imo, The Force Unleashed is a collection of forced clichés in a canon-raping story. It's a good game, don't get me wrong. But it has nothing the old trilogy has. I don't think it gets much love from the first-hour fans. I mean....cloning, Vader, Yoda, reverse-grip lightsaber...it's an explosion of nerdgasm.

Swtor is trying to create a setting based on the movies and is much more subtle in doing so. It's using the movies as inspiration, not using everything IN the movies.

 

It is over-the-top epic though, have to give you that. But we haven't seen the lv 60 powers from ToR either...

 

I think I am on the opposite side of the coin from your opinion. I think that TFU's story itself(haven't played the sequel) was serviceable enough given that a lot of the time between RotS and ANH is unknown, but the gameplay was utter crap. They ballooned the force powers up to the point where they were barely recognizable while simultaneously using an arcade beat-em-up model that made the lightsaber look only slightly less effective than the baseball bat in Double Dragon. Throw in the stupid QT finishers that I found annoying enough in God of War, and I quickly realized that the only thing that kept me playing the game was the story. Definitely glad I waited for the game to hit the bargain bins.

 

But at least TFU had a good reason for ripping off the aesthetic of the movies. It took place in the same era. SWTOR has no such excuse. So while the stylized graphics doesn't bother me as much as it does the OP(though still not my preference), the lazy choice to rip off the movies rather than come up with their own aesthetic (which they had already developed in KOTOR!) does. Does it bother me enough to prevent me from buying the game? Perhaps not on its own, but it does act as a bit of a warning sign that SWTOR might not be the kind of game I'm interested in. So I'm taking a wait and see stance at the moment.

 

EDIT: annnnd I just realized that I only looked at the month of that post and not the year. Aren't my cheeks red.

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Interesting. I understand what you're saying about the graphics, but, they will no doubt grow on you. I was a bit iffy about The Clone Wars at first, and I get a bit iffy about lightsabers not being able to cut through stuff. But I adapted and I made excuses for that (cortosis, etc.) and realistically, you shouldn't moan about this stuff before you've actually given the game a try.

 

It's not all about the graphics, it's about the content. I've played games like WoW which involves repeatedly spining around in circles hitting someone 82 times in the face with a battleaxe and they still won't die, whilst listening to 200 different sound effects from other players until the opponent finally submits to the 9,000 cuts and bruises he's sustained and keels over, dead.

 

With the combat, I think it looks pretty good. I know a lot of people don't really like how high-tech some of the equipment people are using is, but you have to remember that this is set 4,000 years before Star Wars IV. That's 4,000 years before The Phantom Menace if you round it up, so it's a completely alien time to the Star Wars we now know, and some of this tech might've vanished.

 

Like in Halo: Reach for example. They had amazing technology and upgrades and stuff, but it all went with time.

 

I think the main thing really is this:

 

Don't bitch until you've played it.

Edited by Master Finch
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I won't be playing it because it's an MMO. Have you ever heard of the "WoW Freakout Kid?" I have no doubt that I would turn into that kid if I ever picked up an MMO. I can get extremely addicted to much less immersive games like turn-based rpg's and rts's, all single-player even. The only games I will even touch nowadays are single-player story adventure games like TFU that actually end at some point. The less replayability the better. If this game were like TFU I would be drooling over it.

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I won't be playing it because it's an MMO. Have you ever heard of the "WoW Freakout Kid?" I have no doubt that I would turn into that kid if I ever picked up an MMO. I can get extremely addicted to much less immersive games like turn-based rpg's and rts's, all single-player even. The only games I will even touch nowadays are single-player story adventure games like TFU that actually end at some point. The less replayability the better. If this game were like TFU I would be drooling over it.

 

But World of Warcraft MAKES you addicted. It DEMANDS all your time to be able to play it. I don't think SW:TOR will be like that.

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Klw, the WoW Freakout Kid was faking it. WoW doesn't turn you into a moron. If you act like that you already had problems before that. Don't think that kid is indicative of how MMO players are or what MMOs can do to you.

 

I'm sure I could make unfair assessments on non-MMO players too. Like Kroyt's Rage for FPS players(warning, salty language, as expected for a video of FPS players):

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1. I insulted you by admitting that I have a tendency to get addicted to video games? If anything, I insulted myself. I never made a single "assessment" about other gamers in my entire post. The only generalization that I made is that MMO's are addictive. I stand by that statement.

 

2. MMO addiction is real for many players. I can come up with many more examples, including scholarly ones. In fact, I know a kid who got addicted to WoW and had to recover. I also knew a kid who was addicted to Halo. Here is some quick data: http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2008/06/are_mmorpgs_addictive.php

 

3. I don't play FPS's either, mostly because I'm terrible at them but also because I know that they are also addictive.

 

It is my opinion that MMO's are dangerous and can have evil consequences if you take them too far. It is also my opinion that certain types of video games, like MMO's, are more addictive than others. But that doesn't mean that I think that all WoW players are "morons." Above I was simply answering the OP's request for reasons "why I won't be playing TOR." I won't be playing it because I have a past history of video game addiction.Now I will leave this forum and go back to the TFU forum if you don't mind.

Edited by Klw
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Everything has evil consequences if you take it too far. Even eating can have bad consequences if you overdo it, resulting in clogged arteries and heart attacks and heart disease. But you don't starve yourself to avoid such problems. The same applies to addictions of any sort. There's no such thing as a good addiction, that's why the word has such bad connotations these days. You name it, there's someone out there addicted to it. There's even people addicted to random things like growing their fingernails to lengths that render them unable to do anything with their hands.

 

My assessment remark was, like the rest of my post, focusing solely on the WoW Freakout Kid. I was saying few MMO players are like that if any, and that everything has a few freaks like that, including FPS games(hence my linked Croyt's Anger). I feel fairly sure the WoW Freakout Kid was proven fake. Sticking a remote in his butt? Come on.

 

I imagine TOR will be easier to not fall into the deep end on since each class has a storyline. You have obvious breaks at the end of each act(of which each class has 3) and at the end of each class' entire story.

 

Don't run off, you're welcome here. We're just having a spirited debate is all. :)

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I'm not so sure that the WoW Freakout Kid was proven to be a fake, but I'd welcome a link that proves it. People do strange things when they are in a fit of rage. They grab the nearest object and try to destroy it or use it to destroy themselves. If that was acting then it was certainly very good acting.

 

I don't think we are really having a debate because all you are doing is attacking straw men with red herrings. I don't disagree with any points you've made and you don't disagree with any points I've made. No need to get spirited about anything.

 

Now back to the main topic: You may be right that TOR is different, but I'm not willing to risk addiction to it to find out.

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