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captmorgan72
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Just finished Force Unleashed 2 and I am amazed at all the negative reviews by both players and game reviewers. I really loved this sequel for several reasons. The improved graphics and effects is very nice and the story is thought provoking. Yes, it is much shorter than the original but oh well. The whole time you are left wondering if Starkiller is really a clone. There are moments in the game when Starkiller has flashbacks that seem to suggest he is not and then other times you think he must be. Kota never really believes he is.

I like how Vader used General Grievous as a sort of template for his Terror Troopers. It defiantly set things up for a third installment though.

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Agreed. I honestly don't know why people complain about the story so much. In my honest opinion, it's MUCH better than the Clone Wars animated series story(which I think is quite stupid) or the Yuuzhan Vong or the Solo twins adventures. The TFU franchise, while it's not what KotOR or Jedi Knight or Battlefront was back in their time, it's definitely the most promising Lucasarts game of the current time.

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In my honest opinion, it's MUCH better than the Clone Wars animated series story
That's not much of an achievement.

 

The TFU franchise, while it's not what KotOR or Jedi Knight or Battlefront was back in their time, it's definitely the most promising Lucasarts game of the current time.
I thought it was TOR.

 

And even if we ignore it what else does LA have running? A couple of CW-based children games? Again, it's hardly a feat.

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Like I said, that's my OPINION, and many others as well. Then there are also the many who don't like it.

 

I kinda meant in the now, TOR isn't out yet but no doubt it'll be the next best thing from Lucasarts, and hopefully it will set the standards for what comes out after it.

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The TFU franchise, while it's not what KotOR or Jedi Knight or Battlefront was back in their time, it's definitely the most promising Lucasarts game of the current time.

 

I hate to sound like a killjoy/troll, but it surely couldn't have been that promising if the sequel was cancelled and all the staff were sacked.

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I hate to sound like a killjoy/troll, but it surely couldn't have been that promising if the sequel was cancelled and all the staff were sacked.

 

http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2010/10/29/star-wars-the-force-unleashed-3-possible-lucasarts-still-figuring-it-out.htm

 

 

And are way better storywise than TFUII, which isn't much of an achievement. :p

 

No. "Ahsoka Tano" says it all.

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No. "Ahsoka Tano" says it all.

 

Actually, she's improved a lot. See the last episode, where she was fallable and made mistakes. Frankly, now that she's growing past the "precocious child" stage, she's a lot less of a Mary Sue than Anakin is.

 

Anyway...on to the thread.

 

The story in TFU II has major problems. To name one:

 

SPOILER

 

So, Vader has an incredibly powerful clone/person about to do his bidding for one reason: because he has said incredibly powerful clone/person's girlfriend at his mercy, and Vader will kill her if incredibly powerful clone/person fails to do Vader's bidding.

 

So, non-Force-Sensitive girlfriend is pissed off and grabs a lightsaber, a weapon she has zero training in. She sorta points it at Vader, and what does Vader do? He casually grips her by the throat again with the Force, rips the lightsaber out of her hand, and his beautiful plan works perfe--oh, wait. That's not what he does. Instead, he grips the girlfriend by the throat and flings her through a window so hard that she flies waaaaay across a raging sea and conveniently lands on a platform. Both Vader and the clone/person assume that she's been killed, so clone/person attacks Vader.

 

Hold on.

 

1) Capture girl

2) Lure guy to girl

3) Threaten to kill girl if guy doesn't work for you

4) Pretend to kill girl so guy will no longer promise to work for you and will instead attack you

 

That was Evil Incarnate's genius plan?

 

Yeaaaah...no. Vader could've accomplished his goal with something very simple and, frankly, easier to do than fling some girl a hundred feet (<---conservative estimate) horizontally through the air.

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I'd have to disagree with that. Vader was obviously pissed off by her attempt to attack him, and he is a darksider whose power is fuelled by passion and emotion and has a reputation for killing people who annoy him. From this point of view, killing Juno is perfectly in character for him.

As for his plan, it doesn't matter to him if Starkiller submits to him or not. If his plan was simply to make Starkiller submit by threatening Juno, then he wouldn't have tried so hard to make him give up his attachment to her in the first place.

Way I see it, his plan was to destroy the Rebellion by sending Starkiller back to them, then having him betray them. Only he wouldn't, because Juno's a Rebel now and he wouldn't betray the woman he loves. So Vader tried to make him let go of this attachment, which didn't work out all that great.

With Starkiller gone, Vader switched to plan B. Send out Boba Fett, bring Juno to Kamino, then try to coerce Starkiller into cooperation by threatening to kill her. That didn't go down all that well either, since Vader struck her down in a fit of rage.

But the beautiful thing is he can absolutely afford to do that, because he's got plan C. He has the Dark Clone. He tried to turn Starkiller because, well, two loyal and obedient demigods of mayhem and destruction are better than one, but ultimately it makes no difference if Starkiller joins Vader or not. Vader can simply kill him at any point and send out the Dark Clone in his place, which is what he was preparing to do at the beginning when he was getting ready to stab Starkiller in the back again.

It's essentially backup plans within backup plans within backup plans. And the best thing is that it worked perfectly even in the LS ending. In the DS ending the Dark Clone reveals himself because Vader is about to get killed. In the LS ending he has no reason to do that, but that doesn't mean he's not there. He simply remained invisible and in all likelihood stowed away on board the Rogue Shadow, en route to the secret Rebel base that Vader probably didn't even know existed. The LS ending works out better for Vader than the DS ending - not only has he learned of the existence of a hidden Rebel base, he's managed to trick the Rebels into taking him there along with a loyal clone of his superpowerful apprentice, whose very existence the Rebels have no idea about. Cunning enough for you?

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I'd have to disagree with that. Vader was obviously pissed off by her attempt to attack him, and he is a darksider whose power is fuelled by passion and emotion and has a reputation for killing people who annoy him. From this point of view, killing Juno is perfectly in character for him.

As for his plan, it doesn't matter to him if Starkiller submits to him or not. If his plan was simply to make Starkiller submit by threatening Juno, then he wouldn't have tried so hard to make him give up his attachment to her in the first place.

Way I see it, his plan was to destroy the Rebellion by sending Starkiller back to them, then having him betray them. Only he wouldn't, because Juno's a Rebel now and he wouldn't betray the woman he loves. So Vader tried to make him let go of this attachment, which didn't work out all that great.

With Starkiller gone, Vader switched to plan B. Send out Boba Fett, bring Juno to Kamino, then try to coerce Starkiller into cooperation by threatening to kill her. That didn't go down all that well either, since Vader struck her down in a fit of rage.

But the beautiful thing is he can absolutely afford to do that, because he's got plan C. He has the Dark Clone. He tried to turn Starkiller because, well, two loyal and obedient demigods of mayhem and destruction are better than one, but ultimately it makes no difference if Starkiller joins Vader or not. Vader can simply kill him at any point and send out the Dark Clone in his place, which is what he was preparing to do at the beginning when he was getting ready to stab Starkiller in the back again.

It's essentially backup plans within backup plans within backup plans. And the best thing is that it worked perfectly even in the LS ending. In the DS ending the Dark Clone reveals himself because Vader is about to get killed. In the LS ending he has no reason to do that, but that doesn't mean he's not there. He simply remained invisible and in all likelihood stowed away on board the Rogue Shadow, en route to the secret Rebel base that Vader probably didn't even know existed. The LS ending works out better for Vader than the DS ending - not only has he learned of the existence of a hidden Rebel base, he's managed to trick the Rebels into taking him there along with a loyal clone of his superpowerful apprentice, whose very existence the Rebels have no idea about. Cunning enough for you?

 

You mean to say that the clone followed them to the rebel base, which scene they did not even show. What about boba fett's ship that was shown at the ending. If we had the same dev team i'm bloody sure they would've frozen starkiller in carbonite. Boba fett takes him back to vader's executor instead of jabba and juno uses her prior imperial identity to sneak in undetected and get him out.

 

You guys are giving good ideas for the story, but not admitting the crappy incompetence of the developers is suicide. If hayden blackman gets a chance to work on TFU 3 he'll botch the whole thing up. Apparently his plans with fearless studios are to make an "over the top"(i've been hearing this since 2007) shooter... Now what, shooter unleashed???? Face it, the man's got no creativity.

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Actually, I think the CW stories and show in general have improved greatly as it has moved along.

 

 

 

I'm guessing you haven't seen the last 3 episodes? wow... the mandalorian trilogy that just aired is the most boring badly written drivel I have ever experienced, even the "I Love it whether its good or bad cus I love George" crowd are disowning this season :)

 

but for the Record there is no quality Star Wars Coming from anyone but Del Rey and Dark Horse atm. Lucusarts and Lucasfilm/animation are tearing away what little dignity this franchise has left.

 

Lets see what they do with Quinlin Vos on the 12th, I'll let you know if I've thrown all my Comics away or not.

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I'm guessing you haven't seen the last 3 episodes? wow... the mandalorian trilogy that just aired is the most boring badly written drivel I have ever experienced, even the "I Love it whether its good or bad cus I love George" crowd are disowning this season :)

 

I agree. The Mandalorian episodes were just dull. But that doesn't mean we should forget about the Kamino arc.

 

Lets see what they do with Quinlin Vos on the 12th, I'll let you know if I've thrown all my Comics away or not.

 

quinplastered.jpg

 

:p

 

Nah, the Monkey Island remakes are. :D

 

Damn right.

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quinplastered.jpg

 

:p

 

 

 

 

I know your just posting that as a joke but for the record that panel is from Star Wars: Republic #41~ The Devaronian Version, and in this Comic the current events are explained from the Point of View of Vilmarh 'Villie' Grahrk (A Scoundrel, Smuggler type) and is supposed to show Quinlan in a Bad/incorrect Light ie; "Not how it actually happened" lol.

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I'd have to disagree with that. Vader was obviously pissed off by her attempt to attack him, and he is a darksider whose power is fuelled by passion and emotion and has a reputation for killing people who annoy him. From this point of view, killing Juno is perfectly in character for him.

 

That makes Vader an idiot. Yeah, he was known for killing admirals who annoyed him, but those people weren't part of his overarching plan.

 

 

As for his plan, it doesn't matter to him if Starkiller submits to him or not. If his plan was simply to make Starkiller submit by threatening Juno, then he wouldn't have tried so hard to make him give up his attachment to her in the first place.

 

So hard? He tried to get him to kill a hologram of Juno. Oh, and he said, "The woman means nothing!" repeatedly (ad nauseum) during the final boss battle. That's not exactly trying hard.

 

Way I see it, his plan was to destroy the Rebellion by sending Starkiller back to them, then having him betray them. Only he wouldn't, because Juno's a Rebel now and he wouldn't betray the woman he loves. So Vader tried to make him let go of this attachment, which didn't work out all that great.

With Starkiller gone, Vader switched to plan B. Send out Boba Fett, bring Juno to Kamino, then try to coerce Starkiller into cooperation by threatening to kill her. That didn't go down all that well either, since Vader struck her down in a fit of rage.

But the beautiful thing is he can absolutely afford to do that, because he's got plan C. He has the Dark Clone. He tried to turn Starkiller because, well, two loyal and obedient demigods of mayhem and destruction are better than one, but ultimately it makes no difference if Starkiller joins Vader or not.

 

So...Vader struck down some untrained, un-Force-Sensitive lady in a fit of rage when he could've easily disarmed her; that costs him the obedience of a demi-god, but it makes no difference? Really? Yeah, he has the Dark Clone as backup, but...well, the other Starkiller just single-handedly 1) escaped from Kamino 2) cut his way through an entire Imperial garrison on Cato Nemoidia, destroying two gunships along the way 3) killed a creature that eats rancors for breakfast 4) fought off a massive Imperial boarding party (okay, there were a few Rebel troops, but most of them sorta died) 5) flung orbital debris from a space battle out of the way of his ship while he crashed onto Kamino 6) cut his way through the Imperial garrison there 7) fought Darth Vader himself for a good long time without getting killed (not to mention fighting off countless clones of himself while doing so).

 

Yeah, no loss there.

 

Having the Dark Clone is nice. Having two Starkillers at his command is a dream situation. Losing a demi-god because he couldn't control his rage for three seconds is unacceptable and unbefitting of a Dark Lord of Vader's caliber.

 

Vader can simply kill him at any point and send out the Dark Clone in his place, which is what he was preparing to do at the beginning when he was getting ready to stab Starkiller in the back again.

 

Yeah, Vader can kill him at any point after securing his obedience, as he was preparing to do at the beginning, but how much damage could Starkiller do to the rebellion before he finally betrayed Vader? If Starkiller betrays him despite Juno's life being at stake, Vader and the Dark Clone can go kill him together. But that's pointless--after all, Vader couldn't control his rage and struck Juno down, remember?

 

 

It's essentially backup plans within backup plans within backup plans. And the best thing is that it worked perfectly even in the LS ending. In the DS ending the Dark Clone reveals himself because Vader is about to get killed. In the LS ending he has no reason to do that, but that doesn't mean he's not there.

 

He has no reason to reveal himself? Wait--didn't the original Starkiller (who may or may not be the player, remember) come that close to killing Vader before? Once Starkiller had attacked Vader again, the Dark Clone should've stepped in and killed Starkiller right then. Yeah, there's the Rebel base thing--more on that in a second.

 

He simply remained invisible and in all likelihood stowed away on board the Rogue Shadow, en route to the secret Rebel base that Vader probably didn't even know existed. The LS ending works out better for Vader than the DS ending - not only has he learned of the existence of a hidden Rebel base, he's managed to trick the Rebels into taking him there along with a loyal clone of his superpowerful apprentice, whose very existence the Rebels have no idea about.

 

But wouldn't it have been better to have both Starkillers truly loyal to him? Think of this: Vader forces Starkiller to serve him. He tells him to go kill the rebel leaders, or "she will die." Vader leaves Kamino in a shuttlecraft, taking Juno with him. The Starkillers are left there, with the Dark Clone hiding. Kota comes along and asks where Vader and Juno are. Player Starkiller tells him that Vader escaped with Juno, and he doesn't know where they went. He suggests they go see Bail Organa, Mon Mothma, and Garm Bel Iblis to show them that he's alive. Once there, Dark Starkiller reveals himself and kills all three of them while Player Starkiller kills Kota. When that's done, the Starkillers proceed to kill off the remnants of the rebellion, using the information that Organa/Mothma/Iblis would undoubtedly have near their persons.

 

And all that was traded for one lousy hidden rebel base because Vader couldn't control his rage for three seconds.

 

 

Cunning enough for you?

 

'Fraid not. Two demi-gods under your control are better than one.

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That makes Vader an idiot. Yeah, he was known for killing admirals who annoyed him, but those people weren't part of his overarching plan.

Yes. So? The dark side is fuelled by passion and impulse, and those can make you do stupid things. Such as, oh I don't know, cutting off Windu's hand instead of just blocking his strike blade to blade.

 

So hard? He tried to get him to kill a hologram of Juno. Oh, and he said, "The woman means nothing!" repeatedly (ad nauseum) during the final boss battle. That's not exactly trying hard.

"Give her up or I'm going to kill you" seems pretty hard to me.

 

So...Vader struck down some untrained, un-Force-Sensitive lady in a fit of rage when he could've easily disarmed her; that costs him the obedience of a demi-god, but it makes no difference? Really? Yeah, he has the Dark Clone as backup, but...well, the other Starkiller just single-handedly 1) escaped from Kamino 2) cut his way through an entire Imperial garrison on Cato Nemoidia, destroying two gunships along the way 3) killed a creature that eats rancors for breakfast 4) fought off a massive Imperial boarding party (okay, there were a few Rebel troops, but most of them sorta died) 5) flung orbital debris from a space battle out of the way of his ship while he crashed onto Kamino 6) cut his way through the Imperial garrison there 7) fought Darth Vader himself for a good long time without getting killed (not to mention fighting off countless clones of himself while doing so).

 

Yeah, no loss there.

 

Having the Dark Clone is nice. Having two Starkillers at his command is a dream situation. Losing a demi-god because he couldn't control his rage for three seconds is unacceptable and unbefitting of a Dark Lord of Vader's caliber.

Yes, it makes no difference, since he already has the loyalty of a person just as capable. Not to mention that with the cloning process perfected, he can just make more. Even if it takes a million failures to produce a single stable clone, the Empire can afford it.

 

Yes, it makes no difference, since he already has the loyalty of a person just as capable.Yeah, Vader can kill him at any point after securing his obedience, as he was preparing to do at the beginning, but how much damage could Starkiller do to the rebellion before he finally betrayed Vader? If Starkiller betrays him despite Juno's life being at stake, Vader and the Dark Clone can go kill him together. But that's pointless--after all, Vader couldn't control his rage and struck Juno down, remember?

I don't follow.

 

He has no reason to reveal himself? Wait--didn't the original Starkiller (who may or may not be the player, remember) come that close to killing Vader before? Once Starkiller had attacked Vader again, the Dark Clone should've stepped in and killed Starkiller right then. Yeah, there's the Rebel base thing--more on that in a second.

I don't think there's any reason for him to step in earlier, Vader seems to be doing pretty well against Starkiller this time around. Plus the Sith are prone to gambling with their lives. Remember Palpatine arranging to get himself kidnapped by Grievous? Just watch the beginning of Ep 3 and count the number of times he narrowly escaped death in that little adventure. It was an insanely dangerous operation that put his entire galactic scheme at risk and he went ahead with it anyway.

 

But wouldn't it have been better to have both Starkillers truly loyal to him? Think of this: Vader forces Starkiller to serve him. He tells him to go kill the rebel leaders, or "she will die." Vader leaves Kamino in a shuttlecraft, taking Juno with him. The Starkillers are left there, with the Dark Clone hiding. Kota comes along and asks where Vader and Juno are. Player Starkiller tells him that Vader escaped with Juno, and he doesn't know where they went. He suggests they go see Bail Organa, Mon Mothma, and Garm Bel Iblis to show them that he's alive. Once there, Dark Starkiller reveals himself and kills all three of them while Player Starkiller kills Kota. When that's done, the Starkillers proceed to kill off the remnants of the rebellion, using the information that Organa/Mothma/Iblis would undoubtedly have near their persons.

And that wouldn't work with just one Starkiller... why, exactly?

Also, I seriously doubt the leaders of the Rebellion would leave incriminating information just lying around in their offices.

 

And all that was traded for one lousy hidden rebel base because Vader couldn't control his rage for three seconds.

You seem to be forgetting that the Rebellion tends to have only one base at a time.

 

'Fraid not. Two demi-gods under your control are better than one.

Plenty of cloning pods left intact on Kamino.

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*shrug* I'm not going to argue the point. I can see the story either way. If they come out with TFU III at some point, I guess we'll find out. :xp: (Would be nice for Vader to not be a complete idiot; still doesn't excuse the pointless cameos and character ruining the game did, but at least it would help the villain.)

 

And that wouldn't work with just one Starkiller... why, exactly?

 

This one part I'll answer: Dark Starkiller doesn't know what's passed between Kota and Starkiller. If Kota is the least little bit convinced that Dark Starkiller isn't Starkiller, he won't take Dark Starkiller to the heads of the Rebellion, and Dark Starkiller will have a hell of a lot more trouble completing his mission.

 

Also, I assume Kota, despite being blind, can sense a Dark Sider.

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He does know what happened between Kota and Starkiller during TFU1 and not that much has happened between them in TFU2. Plus come on, Starkiller's been killed, revived (twice, actually), tortured, brainwashed, cloned, and god knows what else. Of course he's going to act a little weird.

As for Kota sensing a dark sider, in my opinion Starkiller is and always has been one. Plus Kota's an old fool that can't even tell the guy he's sitting next to isn't a Jedi.

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He does know what happened between Kota and Starkiller during TFU1 and not that much has happened between them in TFU2. Plus come on, Starkiller's been killed, revived (twice, actually), tortured, brainwashed, cloned, and god knows what else. Of course he's going to act a little weird.

 

Eh, maybe. I still think there would be enough differences for Kota to figure it out.

 

As for Kota sensing a dark sider, in my opinion Starkiller is and always has been one.

 

That's definitely a possibility, but I think he evens out to more of a "grey" Sider.

 

Plus Kota's an old fool that can't even tell the guy he's sitting next to isn't a Jedi.

 

Well, to be fair, Kota was drunk at the time...

 

But I won't argue about him being...okay, maybe not a fool, exactly...but an...annoyance. :p

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I actually like Kota, aside from his insistence on referring to Starkiller as a Jedi. He's not as preachy and holier than thou as other Jedi, he seems to be a "no nonsense, get the job done whatever it takes" kinda guy. Kinda like Windu, only not lame and horribly miscast.

Edited by Sordid Dreams
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Now this is the type of conversation I've been waiting for!

 

Since you guys already discussed the things I thought about already, I have a suggestion for the ending possibly for the 3rd game. Well, in the start, I'm thinking that the Dark Clone would've been following the rebels wherever they take Vader. And then he breaks Vader out somehow. Then other stuff happens, hopefully a lot of stuff, making the game longer than it's predecessors. Then we figure out if we're controlling a clone or the original Starkiller. Then at the end I think Starkiller and the Dark Clone have to be killed somehow, probably by Vader.

 

I don't know why, but when I imagine it in my head, I imagine Starkiller and the DC to be fighting each other aboard a ship and Vader firing on them from another ship, kinda like Darth Malak did to Revan in KotOR.

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Just make TFU 3 good if you're making one. not the load of BS we have right now. This whole starkiller thing was pointless. Instead you wanna show tru force unleashed, you should've focused on the time line between RoTS and ANH with vader as the protagonist... that would've been wayyy better. I don't like the idea of calling myself unleashed and then having to dodge sniper rifle shots or getting pushed around by riot troopers. Here's my version.

 

Let the camera be more OTS like arkham asylum, so you actually get the sense of how tall and overpowering the guy is, accomplishing about 50% of the "unleashed" idea.

 

Secondly, new combat system, 2 laser blasts are enough to kill you, so you add a timed block system. Finally for combat, i would suggest an interactive, environment based control scheme. THis scheme is very popular and has not been that explored yet. Only true crime: hong kong and Assassin's creed 2 have explored this a little. It gives access to more satisfying combat moves and finishers, plus just imagine what you could do with the force??? Remember that pre-vis force power video? That will be a 100% possible. Another example would be: 4 troopers in front of you, Slash first one effectively beheading him, then do a saber throw and impale the second one leaving your saber there. Proceed to choke the 3rd one with a nice camera close up or any other effect giving the intensity of this guys power. Then finally force pull your lightsaber and with a small twirl do the infamous darth maul to qui-gon backstab.

 

Focusing on vader prevents the requirement for adding any new characters that if not researched properly, could leave holes in the story line.

 

DMM and EUPHORIA could've been easily explored since vast areas wouldn't be required... BTW There was no DMM in this game at all...

Edited by deesnyder
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