The cave of evil

[Darca Lar]

It wasn't confirmed that Starkiller was a clone, but the answer was that clone or not, he's alive, defeated Vader, rescued the girl and reassured hope for the rebellion. This one is more of a transition to the finale

[Sordid Dreams]

he's alive, defeated Vader, rescued the girl and reassured hope for the rebellion

Ah, see, but that's just a recap of events, the very thing I said I didn't want you to tell me. I've played the game, I know what happens in it. What I don't know is how it affects Starkiller. Because as far as I can tell, it doesn't. At the beginning he doesn't care if he's a clone and is obsessed with Juno, and at the end he doesn't care if he's a clone and is obsessed with Juno. There's no character development.

[OGCFB]

To be fair he is at the beginning saying to KOTA how hes a clone and Kota saying that it's impossible and him eventually coming to terms that he may not be a clone after all however what I did not like is the everlasting Juno obsession all the way through the game...

[Sordid Dreams]

But even after his vision on Dagobah, which was supposedly to help him 'find himself', he still says to Kota "you still don't believe that I'm a clone", which to me implies he still thinks he is. What gets me is that it doesn't seem to bother him at any point.

[starkiller1157]

You know what could help? Maybe reading the book, it really helped me understand the story in the 1st TFU.

 

I have read the book and it does better then the game, but it still has plot-holes like the game.

 

And I have TFU1 book and I didn't need it to understand the storyline of the game. TFU1 did very well for a game and an addition to the Star Wars Universe.

 

Maybe I'd do that if they bundled the book to the game at no extra cost. But they're selling the game on its own, it ought to be able to stand on its own.

 

I agree here. The book cost me $30 dollars + is you add what the game cost $60, you're paying over a hundred. They should have just added the book with the purchase of the game, because its not worth the buy with its limited content/game play. 4 levels/worlds, give me a break!

 

If that's true then books and their movie counterparts should be equally good without one being better than the other

 

I disagree. A book is far better then a movie. It has much more detail, more content then a movie could ever hold. Lord of the Rings is proof of that, it also expresses the characters feelings more then a film could.

 

Yeah. Whatever he says he sees as absolute and he can't be wrong. He comes and just talks about how bad the story is in his mind and basically starts an argument about it with one side giving points supporting the story and his side against it. I mean, I guess that's what these forums are for, from a certain point of view as Obi-Wan would say, but I just don't see the fun in debating about the same thing over several different threads.

 

The whole point of forums are to discuss and debate opinions and differences. If you and other like the game thats fine. But there will always be people who dislike things other don't

 

I will agree that the story did have some plot holes in it which is bound to happen when a deadline is involved, but the story did make sense.

 

They had the same deadline as TFU1 and it came out just fine, as like many other games or even films. I think its more the success of the first game and how much money it made then about deadlines.

 

It was about finding answers and discovering worth, hence the trip to dagobah, the "am I a clone" thing

 

Yes, but we found out no answers! We have no idea if he is a clone or not. I was eager to hear something more amazing about the force!

 

It wasn't confirmed that Starkiller was a clone, but the answer was that clone or not, he's alive, defeated Vader, rescued the girl and reassured hope for the rebellion. This one is more of a transition to the finale

 

Starkiller only defeated Vader because Juno was taken. Starkiller had the chance to kill Vader in the beginning, but he chose not to because of his obsession with Juno. Starkiller in TFU2 is not the same as in TFU1, in my opinion.

 

But even after his vision on Dagobah, which was supposedly to help him 'find himself', he still says to Kota "you still don't believe that I'm a clone", which to me implies he still thinks he is. What gets me is that it doesn't seem to bother him at any point.

 

Basicly, Starkiller doesn't seem to care about anything in TFU2, other then his obsession with Juno. Which, no offense, but if a former lover had come back for me like that, I'd be pretty upset that he risked the rebel alliance possible defeat and didn't at all care about their struggle against the empire!

 

After everything Starkiller, Juno & Kota went through in the first game, its meaningless to him. And if he really believes he is a clone and not the original, how does he think Juno should be his???

[Sordid Dreams]

I disagree. A book is far better then a movie. It has much more detail, more content then a movie could ever hold. Lord of the Rings is proof of that, it also expresses the characters feelings more then a film could.

Well that's just because LotR is completely unsuitable for a film adaptation. There are many films that are better than the literature they're based on/that's based on them. The recent Batman movies come to mind.

 

After everything Starkiller, Juno & Kota went through in the first game, its meaningless to him. And if he really believes he is a clone and not the original, how does he think Juno should be his???

 

Yeah, that really bothered me too. What exactly is he going to say when the subject comes up? "Well, the guy you loved is dead, but I look just like him and I've had some of his memories of you injected into my head by Darth Vader, so how about we ditch this old fart and rent us a room so you can get a taste of my lightsaber, if you know what I mean?"

[starkiller1157]

What exactly is he going to say when the subject comes up? "Well, the guy you loved is dead, but I look just like him and I've had some of his memories of you injected into my head by Darth Vader...

 

According to the book, Juno got a tour of the cloning facility and seemed to be alright with it, which, I know we don't know a lot about her character, but still, I'd feel a bit weird about it. I'd definintly need some time to understand it, but the other problem is, Vader isn't telling if he really is a clone or not, so there's like this gray area for any character development

 

When I first heard about TFU2 and Starkiller being cloned, the idea I had was, Starkiller was so powerful(like it was said in TFU1 by the Emperor "He is now more powerful then ever" that his force kept his spirit/soul alive. And when Darth Vader was making clones, that spirit/soul entered one of the clone bodies.

 

I would have been more interesting if all the clones Vader made were failures, until one came alone and proved otherwise-the real starkiller. It would also make Vader a bit confused as to how this particular clone was a success.

 

Starkiller couldn't of escaped-similar to that in the cinematic released and goal is to find the rebel alliance and help defeat the Empire. In the process, finding both Kota, Juno and some new allies.

[Sordid Dreams]

According to the book, Juno got a tour of the cloning facility and seemed to be alright with it, which, I know we don't know a lot about her character, but still, I'd feel a bit weird about it. I'd definintly need some time to understand it, but the other problem is, Vader isn't telling if he really is a clone or not, so there's like this gray area for any character development

True, Vader isn't telling, but Starkiller doesn't seem to have any doubts. From his point of view, he's a clone and that's the end of it. And he's apparently perfectly okay with taking another guy's place.

It might actually be pretty cool if the real Starkiller then turned up and challenged him on that point. You'd end up with two supposedly light sided Force users fighting each other over a woman, ie. a completely selfish, passion-driven reason, revealing that in fact neither of them is on the light side.

...

Yeah, fat chance.

[starkiller1157]

A thought recently came to me and I realized, Starkilling entering the cave of evil on dagobah, is really not the best idea.

 

We already know he struggles with the dark side and in Episode 5, Yoda clearly explains that the dark side is strong on the planet and especially in the cave. It should of caused him to go darker or at least have some profound effect on him.

 

Not to mention there is no struggle with the dark or light side in TFU2. And if he is trying to be a jedi, his attachment to Juno will only cause him to fall or at least, not allow him to be a true jedi.

[Sordid Dreams]

We already know he struggles with the dark side

Do we? Somehow I don't recall a single moment of that in the first game. What he struggles with are his loyalties, but both his loyalty to Vader and his loyalty to Juno are based on emotion. Fear, anger, and lust for power in case of Vader and passionate love in case of Juno. Both of those are dark side motives.

 

Yoda clearly explains that the dark side is strong on the planet and especially in the cave. It should of caused him to go darker or at least have some profound effect on him.

Actually I think it did. Before he went in he wasn't sure what to do. The cave reawakaned his love for Juno and his desire to protect her at all costs. Which is of course the exact same emotion that caused Anakin to turn into Vader.

 

Not to mention there is no struggle with the dark or light side in TFU2. And if he is trying to be a jedi, his attachment to Juno will only cause him to fall or at least, not allow him to be a true jedi.

Which is why I've always maintained that Starkiller is and always has been a total darksider.

[starkiller1157]

Do we? Somehow I don't recall a single moment of that in the first game. What he struggles with are his loyalties, but both his loyalty to Vader and his loyalty to Juno are based on emotion. Fear, anger, and lust for power in case of Vader and passionate love in case of Juno. Both of those are dark side motives.

Well he did learn that his father was a die, so I think that in itself is a light/dark struggle. He was born from a Jedi and raised as a sith. General Kota is offering to help him become a Jedi.

 

They didn't really express the romance very well, until the end. And regardless, he still chose to die for the rebels instead of just go away with Juno.

 

 

Actually I think it did. Before he went in he wasn't sure what to do. The cave reawakaned his love for Juno and his desire to protect her at all costs.

He went in the cave obsessed with finding Juno and went out obsessed with finding Juno. Nothing really changed. And for Yoda to say he needed to follow what he saw, is very unlike Yoda. Yoda urged Anakin to forget about his attachments. Why would he here encourage it, if he hoped Starkiller to be a Jedi?

 

 

Which is why I've always maintained that Starkiller is and always has been a total darksider.

The only thing TFU2 expressions-from my point of view-is he's a teenager obsessing over his girlfriend it's not like he did anything "dark" related. At least Anakin murdered Jedi, Younglings & Separatist.

[Darca Lar]

The games story might have made more sense if there was more than what they gave. If this was adapted into a film, it'd probably run 70 minutes; about the same as a tv movie.

[gallandro]

Do we? Somehow I don't recall a single moment of that in the first game. What he struggles with are his loyalties, but both his loyalty to Vader and his loyalty to Juno are based on emotion. Fear, anger, and lust for power in case of Vader and passionate love in case of Juno. Both of those are dark side motives.

 

 

Actually I think it did. Before he went in he wasn't sure what to do. The cave reawakaned his love for Juno and his desire to protect her at all costs. Which is of course the exact same emotion that caused Anakin to turn into Vader.

 

 

Which is why I've always maintained that Starkiller is and always has been a total darksider.

 

I agree with you that Starkiller is following a path very similar to Anakin, but I disagree that he's a darksider. There's a distinct difference... The Sith (and Anakin) are focused on selfish needs and the acquisition of people, things, and power.. Starkiller isn't. He willingly sacrificed himself for the rebellion (including Juno).

 

When they were above the Death Star and kissed, Starkiller was convinced he would never see Juno again, and yet he still continued with his mission. Anakin would never have done that. He wouldn't have willingly given up Amidala for any greater cause. He would not have accepted that premise. He loved her, but he also wanted to possess her. In TFU1, that wasn't Starkiller at all. He loved Juno (which the Jedi forbid), but he didn't want her as a possession (which the Sith promote).

 

I think the whole point to Starkiller is that he isn't following either path, which makes him a danger to both sides. He follows no ideals, which is the foundation of the light and the dark side.

 

I think - if anything - he's more akin to Qui Gon Jinn (although I'll grant you, he is a little dark). He is incredibly powerful, but completely ignores the tenants of both the Sith and the Jedi if he thinks they aren't applicable to his mission.

 

In short, I think the point to Starkiller is that he's something completely new. Neither Sith nor Jedi.

 

And Kota - in true jedi form - just seems to want to manipulate Starkiller in the same way that Yoda and Obi Wan manipulated Luke.

[starkiller1157]

but I disagree that he's a darksider. There's a distinct difference...

I agree with you there. Starkiller may have dark side moments, but he's not completely acting like a normal dark sider.

 

 

 

When they were above the Death Star and kissed, Starkiller was convinced he would never see Juno again, and yet he still continued with his mission.

It's a little hazy, but I think with the revelation of his father being a Jedi and Kota urging him, it seemed to be going down the Jedi path. He did save Kota when he could of killed Vader.

 

 

In short, I think the point to Starkiller is that he's something completely new. Neither Sith nor Jedi.

I agree with you there, but star wars is all about the Light VS the Dark. It seems lately the EU is going down a gray area of the force, which I don't completely agree with.

 

And Kota - in true jedi form - just seems to want to manipulate Starkiller in the same way that Yoda and Obi Wan manipulated Luke.

That's pretty obvious after watching the scene between Kota and Clone Starkiller when they board the Rogue Shadow. Kota already had a plan set for them without even, oh I don't know figure out how or why starkiller is alive?