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Moral Issue (Yes, I have morality)


Nick Vader
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Nick Vader DID pay for the software... he did own the plastic thing that held the information on lease from SSSC (some stupid software company).

"Did" is the key word.

 

When you lose something.. you don't go out and steal another to replace it, you buy another one. It wasn't the software company's fault Nick (and I, regarding my Bloodlines game) lost it.

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I disagree Mim, that this is such a cut-and-dry situation as to gladhand the issue and say "Stealing is stealing is stealing". Nick Vader DID pay for the software... he did own the plastic thing that held the information on lease from SSSC (some stupid software company).

Then tell him to load his copy of the "plastic thing." Oh wait...he lost his "plastic thing." Then he has to either buy another "plastic thing" or buy it from another source. Otherwise it is theft, by law and IMO morally too.

 

Pretty cut and dry to me, but again he asked for our opinions and I gave mine. That doesn't mean mine is correct, but it is the one I live by.

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WWQGD?

What Would Qui-Gon Do?

 

Personally, I don't pirate stuff, I prefer to have a physical copy in my hands as opposed to seeing an Icon on my screen and an empty spot in my games rack next to my desk. Holding a CD is much more fulfilling in my opinion. I lost Kotor II once, for PC. Took freakin AGES, but eventually I found another copy and snatched it as quick as a rat on cheese.....

 

But that's just me.

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Except that it was software. The rules are different.

 

No. No they aren't. The rules are exactly the same as anything else you purchase.

 

Software is still a product no matter the form. Digital or physical. You lose it, you buy it again unless the software provider has provided means to re-downlaod your software for no additional fee (Steam comes to mind).

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Software is still a product no matter the form.

 

Cars are products that were built with materials paid for by the company. If I buy a car, the workers get paid. If I lose that car and steal another one, the workers don't get paid for the physical object they've built. The company doesn't get paid for the materials they purchased to build the car either.

 

If I buy software, the developers get paid. If I lose that software and pirate another version, the developers have already been paid. They haven't been working to build that same software from the ground up for each and every CD.

 

The company's already received money from me for the 0's and 1's. Therefore, it is not wrong to procure another copy of that program if I've already paid for a legitimate version.

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I guess much depends on how you chose to parse it. For instance, if you buy a CD/game and make a backup copy in the event of future "hard luck", that might be one thing. By going to a "pirate" site, you are knowingly an accessory after the fact to fenced goods and could land in legal trouble. Since doing so is abetting a criminal activity, any claims to morality are on shaky ground at best.

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Cars are products that were built with materials paid for by the company. If I buy a car, the workers get paid. If I lose that car and steal another one, the workers don't get paid for the physical object they've built. The company doesn't get paid for the materials they purchased to build the car either.

 

So by your reasoning, as long as you steal a car that's already been paid for no problem. Afterall, the manufacturer and workers already have their money right? Kewl! Why don't you try that with your neighbors car and tell me how that works out for ya? :disaprove

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I think what Mars is trying to say, not that I agree with it, is this: With a vehicle you have a physical object that you can touch, see, and even smell, when the catalytic converter goes out and gives you that rotten egg smell. So of course it would be wrong to go out and steal another vehicle, even if it was from a junkyard, because somebody didn't get paid...again.

 

But, with software you don't have that kind of physical property, because all you have is info, "0's and 1's" as he put it, written digital information, and so you buy your own blank CD/DVD and copy that digital information that you already payed at least once for.

 

 

My question is, would that be any different with a physical book? Dosen't look that way to me. Let's say you lost your edition of Star Wars: A New Hope, and let's even say you decided that all you need is the written info, you don't need the cover of the book and whatever else, so you copy that written work from maybe the library on your paper that you bought and payed for. Is that stealing or just borrowing information you lost? I think it comes under the terms of stealing, aka "Piracy = Unauthorised replication" as Lynk posted. Why? Because authors like Lucas get a little thing called "Royalties" for ever copy that is made and sold, therefore, you didn't pay for that particular version you copied, therefore, you have stolen that written information.

 

And there you go....

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The company's already received money from me for the 0's and 1's. Therefore, it is not wrong to procure another copy of that program if I've already paid for a legitimate version.

 

Yes, it is. You paid for one copy. The fact they didn't have to build it like a car is irrelevant.

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But, with software you don't have that kind of physical property, because all you have is info, "0's and 1's" as he put it, written digital information, and so you buy your own blank CD/DVD and copy that digital information that you already payed at least once for.

 

True enough, and I get the "no physical property"... (and the following isn't directed at you purifier :) ) but just because it's easier to rip off from a torrent site doesn't make the rules any different.. it just makes it more accessible and anonymous. It's still stealing ;)

 

As someone who works in the digital medium, I can say that anything I create is far more than just 1's and 0's. The equipment, and ironically enough, software I purchase to create the "digital information" costs me real money (a lot). The man-hours I put in to design & create the information costs me (a lot). The education I paid for to get the experience and know-how on how to create the magical mix of 1's and 0's costs (a lot).

 

Unless I, as the creator (or manufacturer, distributor, etc. blah blah), specifically provide a means to re-download or provide you another copy (for your own mistake I might add) there is no justification for stealing another. Either don't lose it (der), buy another one.. or buy from a dealer that does provide insurance of your software in case anything happens.

 

--

 

and purifier, LOVE the book example. :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you always lose your discs, you can burn them to your HD ahead of time. Since you bought them, this is not illegal and you are just backing them up. So if you lose them, you can 1. run your backed up version or 2. burn your backed up version to another disk. Problem solved!

 

On the pirating situation though, it's tough for me. I work in film (Lol. Let's say starting out), where the software gets pretty expensive. You have your editors like Final Cut and Avid which are probably the cheapest. Then you have your modeling and animation stuff like Maya, 3ds, and Mudbox. Granted you don't need all of them, they are pricey as hell. Then on top of that you need your compositors/extras, like Photoshop, After Effects, and/or Nuke if you're really serious.

 

$1,000's easily. I don't have a job now so I can't afford the software, but I need to be proficient with the software to land the job. WHAT DO I DO?! Granted (thank god) Autodesk has great student options, the rest are pretty much legally unobtainable for me. Even with the free student software though, I'm not supposed to use it for commercial purposes so that's another dilemma in itself.

 

Sorry for my rant, this has been bothering me forever! Woe is me! :violin:

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If you always lose your discs, you can burn them to your HD ahead of time. Since you bought them, this is not illegal and you are just backing them up.

 

Most legal text I've seen on video games says that making copies of the disc content is illegal, regardless of whether for private or public use. Sure it isn't as serious an offence as redistribution, but yeah, it's not legal, neither is downloading roms to keep for 24 hours. The legal text on Total War: Shogun 2 even warns against unauthorised borrowing/lending, so your friends had better buy their own damn game.

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