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The big difference between the OT and PT is that while George was the driving force behind both. In the OT, George, at least, had people telling him that some things shouldn't be the way they are and that their should be some changes made to accommodate certain aspects of the production. I'm also sure he reluctantly agreed to these changes and was also more willing to allow others to take more of an initiative due to the stress he was under.

 

Looking at the prequels, however, you see a George Lucas who is revered so much that NO ONE wants to question him on anything. How DO you tell the creator of Star Wars that the things he wants in his Star Wars movie may not translate well for people who are watching it? The people who worked on the prequels seemed to be in awe of him and let him do whatever he wanted unchallenged because, he's the guy who created Star Wars!

 

HOWEVER... to think that the creation of Star Wars starts and ends with ONLY George Lucas totally incorrect. We all know that there were a lot of people involved with the production of all the original trilogy movies that were essential to the way it turned out. Everyone from the team over at ILM to the actors themselves to people like Irvin Kirshner, Frank Oz and the folks who created all of the different elements of Star Wars with their own initiative and didn't wait for George to approve every tiny little detail.

 

 

As for the sequel trilogy. We know nothing about it aside from out of context clips from trailers and pieces of information here and there. People can scoff at the movies, calling them silly pieces of fan fiction just because George Lucas isn't helming it... and that's fine. We can brand everything that Lucas didn't have direct contact with in Star Wars silly pieces of fan fiction at this rate, but whether they are silly fan fictions, like, say Knights of the Old Republic... at the very least, was it enjoyable to enough people to be worth it?

 

There are plenty of silly fan fictions released of Star Wars that people seem to have enjoyed immensly, KotOR being one of them.

 

 

 

Okay, yeah, Hollywood is plagued by cookie-cutter movies, there's a lot wrong with the industry and the people who are creative forces in the industry. But there is also a lot of good things that can come out of Hollywood too.

 

In that way, George Lucas is no different from Hollywood (at least, during the days of the prequels). He was huge, a force to be reckoned with. He has his flaws, but good things can also come from him... but only if the people who worked for him took some initiative.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming George for any of this, rather, I'm blaming the people who worked around him who didn't speak up. Yeah, George Lucas is Star Wars, it was created by one person, but it was produced by many, and those many people added a wonderful tapestry of creativity to those original movies.

 

I'm hoping, that since George Lucas isn't involved in the sequel trilogy, it'll allow this group involvement of ideas to happen a lot more than it was happening in the prequels.

 

 

 

But who knows, the sequel trilogy may really suck, even harder than the prequel trilogy... but I want to actually wait and see what happens myself in the coming months and years.

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Out of curiosity, though, why do you call Disney's marketing campaign ridiculous?

 

The whole focus on pratical effects, for example, and the implication that they are returning to something that was never gone to begin with. Trying to appeal to disgruntled fans instead of the next generation. Etc...

 

Looking at the prequels, however, you see a George Lucas who is revered so much that NO ONE wants to question him on anything. How DO you tell the creator of Star Wars that the things he wants in his Star Wars movie may not translate well for people who are watching it? The people who worked on the prequels seemed to be in awe of him and let him do whatever he wanted unchallenged because, he's the guy who created Star Wars!

 

Another misconception. It's well documented that people in the production did make suggestions. The whole 'yes man' argument is a pure lie. All one needs to do is watch BTS material to confirm that George accepts and declines suggestion that were offered to him, just like in the OT. He even says something along the lines of "if it doesn't work out, I'll take the blame".

 

HOWEVER... to think that the creation of Star Wars starts and ends with ONLY George Lucas totally incorrect. We all know that there were a lot of people involved with the production of all the original trilogy movies that were essential to the way it turned out. Everyone from the team over at ILM to the actors themselves to people like Irvin Kirshner, Frank Oz and the folks who created all of the different elements of Star Wars with their own initiative and didn't wait for George to approve every tiny little detail.

 

But he ended up approving it all, one way or the other. If he didn't like something, you bet it didn't end up in the final film. Even the whole 'I know' he ends up approving despite his initial preference for another line. And again, it wasn't any different in the PT.

 

As for the sequel trilogy. We know nothing about it aside from out of context clips from trailers and pieces of information here and there. People can scoff at the movies, calling them silly pieces of fan fiction just because George Lucas isn't helming it... and that's fine. We can brand everything that Lucas didn't have direct contact with in Star Wars silly pieces of fan fiction at this rate, but whether they are silly fan fictions, like, say Knights of the Old Republic... at the very least, was it enjoyable to enough people to be worth it?

 

I can enjoy licensed fan fiction. It's a different issue when the 'real deal' is offered to them and they ignore it to produce their own story. They are free to do so, sure, but I see it as pretentious and even disrespectful.

 

There are plenty of silly fan fictions released of Star Wars that people seem to have enjoyed immensly, KotOR being one of them.

 

I don't have a problem with people enjoying what they like. They don't have to like what George does. I'm speaking for myself, not for others. Still, this is Episode VII, not spin-off #21. A direct sequel of Lucas' story. The decision to ignore the story (not the script) he provided them is downright insulting as far as authenticity and creativeness goes.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming George for any of this, rather, I'm blaming the people who worked around him who didn't speak up. Yeah, George Lucas is Star Wars, it was created by one person, but it was produced by many, and those many people added a wonderful tapestry of creativity to those original movies.

 

I'm sorry, but that argument is just a strawman. No big production is made by one single man, that's a given and it's pointless to point that out. Lucas didn't draw an X-wing, or built the Death Star miniature, or was stuffing hair into the Chewbacca costume, but he envisioned them and was behind it all.

 

For example: People give Stanley Kubrick credit for 2001, not random employee John Doe who helped build the spaceplane miniature. Same for every other creative in every medium. But somehow, for Star Wars, the norm is taking credit away from Lucas. Same thing with CGI. It's fine for every single blockbuster, but with Star Wars (which always used state of the art technology), it gets teared down no matter what. I find these double standards almost sickening so much is the unfairness of such attitude. It's even more sickening when Disney-owned Lucasfilm indirectly feeds it on purpose.

 

Anyway, if people end up enjoying the movie, good for them. I mean it. As a huge fan of the saga, I just won't support a project done like this. If I watch it, I'll probably borrow the DVD/BD from a friend.

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Either way, both of us have no real first hand information about all this. All we can do is judge this new group of people on what they do on the movie AFTER it comes out and we've all seen it to know what kind of movie it is.

 

It's entirely unfair to judge a thing none of us have seen yet.

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Oh, man, sick.

 

How much they running for, Shem?

 

$15.50 (says so in the tickets). Though they're living room seats. It's a special feature of that this theater chain (they're great theaters) has and they were the only ones available. I snagged up two of the last three seats that were available at that theater at the time I got them.

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Is it just me or does it not look like a Star Wars movie?

Use different ships and it would look like any other modern sci-fi flick.

 

So what you're saying is: take out the things that make Star Wars Star Wars and you'll end up with a movie that doesn't look like Star Wars? Well you don't say! Really, it looks perfectly Star Wars to me, not sure how else it should look.

 

I'm on the optimistic side, really. I love the build-up, it does play on the nostalgic feelings in a big way, but it also feels like the beginning of a new era. I'm not concerned about it not living up to the OT, that's impossible with the status it has achieved during these last... 38 years?

 

I say Bring On BB-8! (and R2 obv)

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Aesthetic look of the film. The ground/jungle shots look like "Lost". So do the Rouge One clips.

Not hating on it. I'm sure it'll be good and I'll enjoy it but this is not the true sequel trilogy in my mind.

Hmmm. I don't see it. Maybe it's just cinema has evolved, it's got to be different. Either way, bold statement to make, that last one, based off of what? Three trailers and some fan art?
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I think it's impossible to capture the "Star Wars" feel. The prequel trilogy didn't look of "feel" particularly Star Wars either. It had a drastically different aesthetic and used a different cinematic language than the original trilogy. The sequel trilogy will be different again.

 

Also, the trailers and information we're getting are all without context. We can't really judge a movie based on marketing material because marketing material tends to be pretty unreliable.

 

As I've said repeatedly in this thread, none of us are going to know how this movie turns out until it's released and we actually do see it for ourselves.

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...Either way, bold statement to make, that last one, based off of what? Three trailers and some fan art?

 

The fact that they declined to use GL's treatment and came up with their own story. I'm sure it would of evolved into its' own thing but at least it would of had its' basis in Lucas' story.

 

I'll feel better if one of those new characters last name ends in Skywalker or Solo. I'd even take a Calrissian. ;)

 

I'll reiterate, I'm not making a judgment on whether it'll be good or not. There are plenty of Star Wars stories I enjoy that didn't come from Lucas but I expect more from a Star Wars feature film. So, not opening day worthy for me but I will see it.

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Since it's everywhere, and it can no longer be ignored, now I have to wear my t-shirt with caution out in public. I realize I'm no longer 'hip' and not part of the 'in crowd' as a detractor of new canon. As a "NEW-C" detractor, and a fan of the Expanded Universe, even I predict that at least initially it will make a killing if only for the reason that its "the shiny new installment" and "because it's Star Wars" as it is said. That's how consumerism works more or less.

 

Even the proponents here on LF are civil compared with some fans. In person as well as watching social media I find it most amusing some of the biggest proponents elsewhere on new canon are also some of the nastiest with sentiments that can be boiled down essentially to:

 

"Looks like you're gonna be lonely, hahaha." and "You call yourself a SW fan you poser?"

 

While I speak mostly for myself, I do believe there's other EU fans who agree with me. Excuse the cliche' of my replies:

--Why so serious, hipper than thou? Who died and made you god? I really don't get the whole patronizing dismissive attitude about what is now "Legends". Then again, if you have to loudly wear it on your sleeve, you aren't as secure in your position as you think you are.

No judgment here. I don't begrudge anyone for going and seeing the new movie...So WTF?!

Edited by Darth Avlectus
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@Darth Avlectus : I don't see any real issue. The old EU hasn't gone away, it hasn't been erased from our memories, the stories still exist.

 

Disney wanted to do something with the franchise they now own, and wiping the sleight clean is a good way of going about that. This movie would not have been possible otherwise because the history within the EU is too filled in for anything to be done on this large a scale and bringing back the OT cast along for the ride.

 

The way I feel about all this is that I still like much of the old EU because it's existed for a very long time and there's lots of great stuff there... but I'm also glad that we are getting something new because... well... I don't know WHAT to expect from the new movies and such because everything is new again. There are no expectations of having x character or y event or z planet.

 

We're given the chance to not know what will happen again instead of knowing all the ins and outs of the universe because we're that familiar with EU lore.

 

 

When Ep7 comes out, it's going to be all new to me... and that's what I like about the entire concept of the sequel trilogy and how it's being set up.

 

We're all on equal ground on this now. None of us know what to expect or how things are going to play out.

 

 

 

EDIT: Also... dammit, I absolutely love the design of the new X-Wing.

 

EDIT 2: Music-only version of the latest trailer

 

(This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.)

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Since it's everywhere, and it can no longer be ignored, now I have to wear my t-shirt with caution out in public. I realize I'm no longer 'hip' and not part of the 'in crowd' as a detractor of new canon. As a "NEW-C" detractor, and a fan of the Expanded Universe, even I predict that at least initially it will make a killing if only for the reason that its "the shiny new installment" and "because it's Star Wars" as it is said. That's how consumerism works more or less.

 

Even the proponents here on LF are civil compared with some fans. In person as well as watching social media I find it most amusing some of the biggest proponents elsewhere on new canon are also some of the nastiest with sentiments that can be boiled down essentially to:

 

"Looks like you're gonna be lonely, hahaha." and "You call yourself a SW fan you poser?"

 

While I speak mostly for myself, I do believe there's other EU fans who agree with me. Excuse the cliche' of my replies:

--Why so serious, hipper than thou? Who died and made you god? I really don't get the whole patronizing dismissive attitude about what is now "Legends". Then again, if you have to loudly wear it on your sleeve, you aren't as secure in your position as you think you are.

No judgment here. I don't begrudge anyone for going and seeing the new movie...So WTF?!

 

I feel your pain, Avlectus. I don't think it was even necessary, let alone a smart business decision, for Disney to throw the EU out the window. It overlapped with the movies only on the rare occasion, and in some cases, i.e. Han and Leia being married, the EU was directly tied to the movies, so depending on the setting of Episode VII, I'll be intrigued to see how it ends up working out for them. But, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, none of which I'm here to detract from, so as Lynk says, we'll just wait it out for the next two months and see what becomes of it.

 

In person as well as watching social media I find it most amusing some of the biggest proponents elsewhere on new canon are also some of the nastiest with sentiments that can be boiled down essentially to:

 

"Looks like you're gonna be lonely, hahaha." and "You call yourself a SW fan you poser?"

 

Citing Lynk once again, at the end of the day, Disney's decision to decanonize the EU really doesn't have quite the impact I initially thought it would. After all, there are still people who outright refuse to recognize it. I count myself among this crowd, at least for the moment.

 

Since it's everywhere, and it can no longer be ignored, now I have to wear my t-shirt with caution out in public. I realize I'm no longer 'hip' and not part of the 'in crowd' as a detractor of new canon.

 

Oh, boy, I cannot express to you how hard you hit the nail on the head with this statement. Up until now, I thought I was the only fan having this problem. I'm already anticipating the patronizing comments when hyped moviegoers who jumped on the wagon and saw Episode VII (yet probably couldn't tell you the title of the last prequel) see me in my Falcon shirt: "OOOOOOOH, YOU'RE A STAR WARS FAN TOO?" "HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW MOVIE YET?" Please, I was a fan a decade before this movie was even announced. *Cough* CASUALS! *cough.* I really wish I had a KotOR or Jedi Knight shirt to illustrate this fact, but alas, I've never seen any for sale before.

 

Like it or not, Star Wars is more or less underground at this point. Come reckoning day when TFA is released, it's going to be dragged kicking and screaming out into the light, and us fans are coming with it. So, if the new movie tanks, we'll be stigmatized. If it's an overnight success, we'll be patronized. Avlectus, the odds of successfully navigating the release of Episode VII are approximately 3, 720 to 1!

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The fact that they declined to use GL's treatment and came up with their own story. I'm sure it would of evolved into its' own thing but at least it would of had its' basis in Lucas' story.

 

And that is necessary why?

 

I'll feel better if one of those new characters last name ends in Skywalker or Solo. I'd even take a Calrissian. ;)
I disagree. If there's one thing I'm wary about, it's the new characters' connections to the old. It makes the universe feel smaller when every story needs to be revolved around or connected to "old" characters.
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And that is necessary why?

 

I disagree. If there's one thing I'm wary about, it's the new characters' connections to the old. It makes the universe feel smaller when every story needs to be revolved around or connected to "old" characters.

 

He is the maker after all. It may not be important to you but it is to me.

 

– Lucas, as he’s said before, has no idea what the plot of the new Star Wars movies will be. But said his original plan was about, “The father, the children, the grandchildren.”

Source.

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But Lucas doesn't want to be involved in Star Wars any more.

 

Plus, we don't know exactly why they didn't use the version of the story outline GL came up with.

 

Oh well *shrugs* whatever... there's a 50/50 chance that the sequel trilogy will be terrible or good. If it's turns out terrible, oh well, the fans of the other two trilogies still have the things they like.

 

If it turns out good, then we get a set of cool movies to watch that we'll enjoy for years to come.

 

And if turns out to be a set of good movies but certain people reject it because Lucas had no involvement then *shrugs* you're free to not enjoy a good movie then?

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Lucas made six chapters of a story. For consistency sake, if not for authenticity alone, I'd rather have the last three chapters the way the original author wants it than something made up by someone else.

 

Before the prequels, I might have agreed with you. But I'd rather have quality than consistency. Which in my opinion I'm more likely to get with Abrams than Lucas. And I don't think you can accuse Abrams, Kasdan and others involved of not getting Star Wars. Abrams looked like the perfect fit for Star Wars anyway, especially after his Star Trek reboot. Personally, I think what I've seen from the Force Awakens so far looks more like Star Wars than the prequels ever were. At least, the Star Wars I want.

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But Lucas doesn't want to be involved in Star Wars any more.

 

It's more "family first" than not wanting to do more Star Wars. The fact that he took his time to write the story of a sequel trilogy is a testament to that.

 

And if turns out to be a set of good movies but certain people reject it because Lucas had no involvement then *shrugs* you're free to not enjoy a good movie then?

 

I can enjoy the movie, quality or lack thereof isn't the issue. It's what we could have but don't. The version as envisioned by the person who created this fictional universe.

 

And I don't think you can accuse Abrams, Kasdan and others involved of not getting Star Wars.

 

When did I make that accusation? Although I can certainly say they don't know Star Wars better than the guy who created it.

 

At least, the Star Wars I want.

 

I don't doubt that. Star Wars by comitee, pandering to the audience... Definitely a new Star Wars era. Not one I want though.

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When did I make that accusation? Although I can certainly say they don't know Star Wars better than the guy who created it.

 

Is the idea that someone can inherit something from someone and actually do justice with it or make it better that farfetched? Was Aliens that bad? Was the Battlestar Galactica reboot?

 

Either way, if what we get from the guy who created it is stuff like Jar Jar Binks, coarse sand and slapstick droids, then maybe let's give the other guy a chance. Or not, if you like Jar Jar. You'll always have the prequels, I guess.

Edited by Miltiades
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