Astrotoy7 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 tk, in a room full of boys, it probably isnt a good idea to make your schlong a topic of conversation and I thought we'd be safe from internet predators here... *adds to mini forum code of conduct* >>now back to the folding, please update: *Just passed 350 WUs *Now that chainz has solved his 280 caper, hopefully it wont be too long until we can get his monster truck folder back in action.. and get into that top 3000! mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChAiNz.2da Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 over-nighted the board.. UPS tracking says it's in Knoxville already in transit I have a 3 day weekend coming up.. so I wanted this board in now "just in case" ..hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 you'll be GPU folding again in no time chainz Here's a tidbit... Nvidia GPUs responsible for 42% of F@H output ... I never would have imagined the amount of nvidia GPU clients-users would have been so high... mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChAiNz.2da Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 The folding beast is up Stressed tested the system for about a day and a half, but I'll be keeping an eye out on all this weekend. Running F@H, iTunes, Firefox and several diagnostics all at the same time curently and everything is purring nicely. We'll see how long I'm able to keep the progz running before BSOD (though I'm not anticipating one) hehehe If everything is still running after a few hours, I think I'm in the clear. F@H ran all nite last nite with no probs and by pure accident (has to be) I have created a streamlined airflow... the GPU monitoring all last night only spiked at 74c running all nite, fan control at 55%... "danger mode" is at 125c and I still have plenty of fan to go Cross your fingers, but currently I'm a folding maniac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk102 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I'm a folding maniac I'm a folding idiot! Congratulations on the new motherboard. I am very much in envy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk102 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Interesting recent thread on the FAH forums over the points per day allocations http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=4812 I am assuming there's some bonus that's added for completing WUs sooner to explain why GPU WUs earn more than CPU WUs (about 428 ppwu for ChAiNz, 332 ppwu for Astro compared to 128 ppwu for me ). I keep getting the crap AMBER core units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 GPU clients get assigned specific WUs. Chainz must be getting more points than 428 pwu, as Im getting 480 points pwu with the 8800GTS, and completing about 9 per day if my rig is left on 24/7(which it mostly is). All this info is taken from FahMon The single SMP client is giving me 234 points pwu(also on Amber) The htpc, currently on hold from folding(as Im recording alot of HD + sat TV) was running a standard client and getting that ~128 ppwu. I definitely recommend using the SMP client, if you have an appropriate CPU. @Chainz....what driver version are you using ?? 177.93 beta? Ive been using these for the last few days with no issues. Linky is at your tech forum thread if you need to track it down With the new mainboard, I think you'll be fine It is a *perfect* example of why Vista has gotten a far worse wrap than it deserves IMO. People are using incompatible kit and things go bunk = Vista gets blamed. If a savvy user like chainz can have it happen to him, then I'm not so surprised that users that arent as savvy or calm in resolving their issues start a rant fest against vista where the main issue is really *their* poor selection of kit. anyway, well done chainz for methodically sorting it out most people would have made an emo youtube vid now of them shredding their vista discs and going back to XP. Dont forget those directX updates! and check the "important updates" thread for links to the VCP(vista codec pack) and more importantly the x64 components addon. No x64 user should be without it! I wonder if I'll get my 280+ before chainz overtakes me... Of course, the 280+ isnt even out yet... mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk102 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 The thing is, since GPUs can complete WUs so much faster, why are they also given the added reward of more points per WU? Why not spread the wealth a bit across all the different clients so that the overall average points per work unit is essentially equal? I understand some work units are more "scientifically important" than others, but it's not altogether fair to not provide the opportunity for other clients to grab a chunk of "important work" if it's available. In fact, it's a bit of a disincentive to participate. After thinking about it a bit more, the best idea may be to just drop point values altogether and stick with work unit completion counts -- let Standford University decide which WU are "high priority" and assign those to the fastest clients. http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4931 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 The WUs assigned to GPUs are more complex(numerous). Stanford are assigning points towards the amount of raw calculations that are done. If they assigned these "big" WUs to standard clients, due to the sheer volume of calculations involved, the less dedicated among us would simply drop out because they would be progressing slowly. Much less WUs would get completed. If you break it down to the amount of calculations that are done, the amoint of points per calculation are more even across the board (because frame size in GPU client cores are larger) This is why points are assigned as well as WU count. Those points, being distributed evenly from a calculation volume perspective, give a clearer idea of just how many numbers that user's kit has crunched. If stanford wanted to do it as a "WU only" count, they would need to make all cores(and constituent frames) the same size(calculation count). The GPU clients would be cycling through them at rate of knots, its just not as efficient....best give them bigger things to get stuck into Also, remember you can access to more complex WUs when you set in config to "receive assignments greater than 10mb" Of course, as you know, the standard clients are also given some boosts by the advmethods etc flags. At the end of the day, it shouldnt matter what points you are getting. I know there is a competitive element to folding going on, but the actual work being done is the important bit Those here with nvidia GPUs decided on them for functionalities other than folding My key deciding factors are HD gaming and (relative) power consumption. I was all geared to get a 4870X2 until I realised how hideously hot n hungry they were...definitely not suited to my smallform case! Its just shame ATI havent gone in the direction of discrete CUDA type processing, otherwise a similar client would exist for them. No biggie. Fold away. Everyones contribution is equally important. mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk102 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Everyones contribution is equally important.Of course if that was true, the point system is a sham. Maybe it is: the SMP client is benchmarked at 16x more points ppd than the standard client?!? Doesn't make sense to me. It's a pity that members have to keep reminding themselves of the altruism involved in this project because of this point system. Seems there should be better ways of providing positive feedback -- like tying the research findings to project numbers and thus to individual contributors... /grumbles off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Cmon tk. You were the person who encouraged me to start teamLFN! Where has that young and idealistic tk gone! Bugger the points! It is a sham of course. They are merely a clever way of keeping people interested. People who put too much stock in them are misguided. Think of what our *whole team* has achieved, and in a relatively short time If I was entirely points focussed, I would have stuck with these guys and their top 2 position in the world. I felt it was good for LFN to get involved. If you find you need to keep ''reminding yourself of what its about" and instead focussing on 1337 points instead, maybe you are on the dark path to foldaholism! I am a bit focussed on our overall team position, simply because It'd be cool to be in the top 3000. But it wont be catastrophic if we dont get theres, and it wont affect me dedicating my gaming rig to folding. If you need more reminding of why we do it >> go here I work in health services. I had a quite mentally lacklustre colleague express that she doesnt understand why anyone would do it "if they dont get anything for it" Resisting the urge to slap her on the head, I sent her the above linky... THAT is the reason. Hence, if people who work in the health sector can have that trouble, its no biggy for people outside of this area to stray a little too. Positive reinforcement shouldnt be what drives our actions, we are not one of Pavlov's salivating dogs!! mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChAiNz.2da Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Yeah, I'm not really interested in the WU's / points... however I find that not only the benefits of F@H are commendable.. but it's a helluva stress test monitor It's played a vital role in my computer build with the benefits of helping a great cause Many moons ago I participated in SETI@home and they had a 1:1 unit reporting. All 'WU's' were the same size and such however their processing wasn't specific in what it had to do. F@H seems to work much differently in that certain packets contain much more data to be processed .. hence the points system I presume In any case, I'm much like Astro.. I keep looking over the Team specs moreso than individual. I only look at mine to make sure it's actually sending stuff out without having to open my log file (read: I'm a lazy arse)..and for benchmarking hehehe My current 'goal' is for us to reach 3,000+ status so we can get the nifty sig banner Yes, I admit it, while the project is a great cause, we all like to get a 'merit badge' every once in awhile... that sig banner sure would be nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 lolz... also, the f@h sidebar gadget thingy will list us if we are in the top 3000... making us truly immortal Ive never used the widgets gadgets much until I started folding, the All CPU Meter is a quick visual way for me to check what my cores are doing(Of course taskmanager can also do this) I sometimes have another app up showing temps.. all been steady mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk102 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 The point I'm making is that Folding@Home is coming across to me as point-centric (both team and individual) rather than project-centric. There needs to be a better link between work provided and scientific information generated. Yes I can lookup information about the current project I'm folding and if I'm lucky it may even have a description, but good luck trying to find how these projects translate into publications. How much nicer would it be for a team and individuals to see results that look like this? Publications using contributions by TeamLFN: - Structural Insight into RNA Hairpin Folding Intermediates (link to paper): 49 WUs (link to project numbers, perhaps broken down by contributor) - Automatic State Decomposition Algorithm : 74 WUs - blah blah blah: 5 WUs Maybe the true nature of FAH's competitive spirit is lost on me, but I guarantee I'm not the only contributor who wishes it was easier to translate points and WUs into results. Instead all that's ever discussed and compared in the foreground of folders' discussions is ppd and overall rankings, followed by the occasional lip service of altruism. That should be the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChAiNz.2da Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Maybe the true nature of FAH's competitive spirit is lost on me, but I guarantee I'm not the only contributor who wishes it was easier to translate points and WUs into results. Instead all that's ever discussed and compared in the foreground of folders' discussions is ppd and overall rankings, followed by the occasional lip service of altruism. That should be the other way around. Oh I definitely agree.. I'd love a more in-depth system as to what our processing results go towards. The points/WU system as-is seems to be nothing more than benchmark.. and to some, ePenis wagging rights... but I'd almost tend to think any type of 'result' is going to contribute to the wagging crowd.. "10 of my WU's were published, you only have 2.. neener neener" and such... I don't visit their forums much, but what little I do I haven't seen to much of the braggart crowd.. is it a serious issue (honestly asking)? If so, yeah that completely downplays (dirties) the actual importance of what this program is accomplishing. I would hope the folding community sees that importance rather than diminishing the good work (and name) of F@H down to point / WU tallies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 counting ppd or publications you chipped in on, its still counting! We already know what core we are working on, and more info about them *can* be gleaned from available information and published articles. There are specific journal articles in that list that goes into detail of what distibuted computing does and what is has achieved. It is ultra dry stuff to read though. I also think having "teamLFN=69WUs" in the references of such documents to be irrelevant. The references or appendices of journal publications serve as indicators and resources for other relevant research. How many WUs our motley gang has chalked up can in no way contribute to that! Still, as the clients are developed, and if enough people want it, Im sure the project designers will be able to incorporate some of that detail. The Ps3 clients visualisation of the proteins and everyone contributing around the world are great, far superior to anything on the pc. I personally am not too fussed. why...heres an example: >Lets say you donated $20 to people affected by Katrina. Do you want a receipt saying "youre $20 payed for a new blanket for Mrs Smith at 12 Jones st" OR "youre $20 payed for new stationary for emergency services workers" that's not right, surely! At the end of the day, with any volunteer project, be it virtual or out on the streets, if any part of it doesnt sit well with you, walk away. Being involved in anything "altruistic" should never be a cause of chagrin or frustration. I definitely have done this in a professional capacity, and wouldnt hesitate to do it if f@h somehow radically changed direction. It really should be of no surprise that a "points system" emerged as a successful device to keep a bunch of computer users dedicated. Seeing that many pc users would be avid gamers and competitive by nature(especially high end enthusiasts), it was a totally natural choice. From what Ive been hearing from former team members, the GPU clients have been a divisive factor, accounting for a high rate of drop offs of people running std clients. Overall, the folding community are getting through exceedingly more WUs than ever, but because some people feel their contribution belittled or insufficient, they drop out. This is also corroborated by the recently released statistic that GPU folder = 42% of total. As each year passes, Im certain this will increase.(ie. as 8xxx series GPUs etc drop in price) mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk102 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I'm sure I'm bringing some of my own point-of-view to the threads I've read on FAH forums. No there is not much in the way of outright bragging, but in almost every thread you will see discussion about points. What client kicks out the most? How can I get more? Which projects are giving the most? More points are imply more importance. I got caught up in looking at them perhaps too intently when I first brought up the subject. Astro was right in saying that at the end of the day that point totals really don't matter. All clients, client monitors, projects, and most threads on FAH forums continue to remind you about points though, so you have to remind yourself that points don't matter. My guess is that that's easier to do when you're not running the standard client. I don't intend to dwell on it. We can just call this a venting of frustrations, if you like. Hmm... in that case I might as well get them all out: FAH monitoring being a separate utility... log files with UTC timestamps instead of local times... frequent and long "site update in progress" messages... different clients (console, system tray, GUI) named almost identically to confuse people as to which they have... Okay I'm done. @Astro: wasn't talking about getting published *in* the research papers -- nobody cares about that who's reading the paper -- was talking about the FAH database tying papers to projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk102 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 counting ppd or publications you chipped in on, its still counting!One of those feedbacks is real, one is artificial. We already know what core we are working on, and more info about them *can* be gleaned from available information and published articles. Not easily. I challenge you to find a core that you've worked on and point out a paper that its findings help generate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 hehe. OK tk, so you admit you are having a Dr Phil moment ? its alright. we're there for you man! We'll validate your verbalisation of emotion[/orsomethinglikethat] Im sure stanford would like to implement alot of changes and upgrades, but cost is always a factor. Hence those slower, less convenient bits will always be present to some degree. As for yoru challenge > the SMP and GPU client gets alot of "villin" specific WUs. Any article published after our join date that focuses on or includes a villin focus, will have the awesome hands of teamLFN in there observe, my first GPU WU was actually on a villin component Here's an existing study with a villin component Ive even noticed some of the articles publish raw data, heck, there is a site that makes this data available for perusal for researchers and troublemaker admins Seriously, if you need more than that...you must be nuts! mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChAiNz.2da Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Hmm... in that case I might as well get them all out: FAH monitoring being a separate utility... log files with UTC timestamps instead of local times... frequent and long "site update in progress" messages... different clients (console, system tray, GUI) named almost identically to confuse people as to which they have... Okay I'm done. heh, I agree with you on all the points.. I was almost a victim of installing the wrong client, until my paranoid self went back to check and make sure and by all means rant away. One of the nice things about this Social Group Miniforum (sorry Astro ) is at least we're all together in it rather than getting "jonDoeUserlam3r" mouthing off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk102 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 right on guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 'good' tk is back \o/ I warned you about excessive exposure to those crazy glasses.... Edit: *congrats to chainz and his monster .. 22 WU in 2 days.... now over 100WUs! chainz....the "villin" groupies will love you for it Of course, villin groupies look like smodges on snot on an agar plate, but groupies are groupies Char has reached his 10 as well... good stuff! tk nearly clocked 50WUs keep up the great work all mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Char has reached his 10 as well... good stuff! Interesting that. My client says I had completed 11 WU's at the time, now client says 12 and F@H website reports 11. I think this all goes back to when I was having a problem uploading one of my completed WU's. I believe this was due to my implementing the -advmethods switch that tk had posted about a while back while I was processing a WU that had been assigned to my client before I put in the switch. I didn't anticipate it would pose a problem but it seems this switch changes the collection server for the client because when I shut down the client and launched it without the switch the non-advmethods WU that couldn't upload before was able to upload. Thinking all was well I then shut down the client again and started it back up with the -advmethods switch but it seems the F@H website never gave me credit for it. Oh well. After the most recent discussion here I too have been reminded that the idea with this whole project is to help advance research that will help combat several types of disease so as long as my non-credited WU goes to that end then that works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 congrats to tk, and his contributions to Project 895 [Project 895 is designed to...] study the structure and dynamics of various domains of p53,a tumor suppressor protein whose malfunction is implicated in over 50% of human cancers. Now tk, can we confidently wrap up your misgivings that "Its all about ze points" [/'cause it's not of course] great work Char. Im sure we've all had WU data get lost in the ether. As long as its the odd freak occurence, then its nothing to get too worried about. Best way to track this is to keep your eye on those logs! edit> been watching chainz WU count, phaw! I thought It'd be 3 weeks til the 280 caught up to my 880GTS head start... now its looking more like 3-4 days Good stuff... well on the way to the top 3000 now(and stud status) go team! mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChAiNz.2da Posted September 2, 2008 Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 Hey Char Ell... you may also want to check your configuration. I do it now every single time I re-start it as it has on several occasions, completely wiped out my settings (making me submit a WU or 2 as "generic user") I always check now. Especially if you restart / reboot. Just launch F@H, right-click the icon (assuming you have system tray) and click the "Configure" option to double-check your Name and Team id fields are filled. Mine hasn't reset recently, but it has done it in the past Astro, yeah.. I have my card back up to BFG OC settings now, was at nVidia base during it's first run so I could get the system stabilized, but now that I've got the settings right, I pumped the card back up to BFG's settings. Still 480 pts per WU, but it completes them really fast Had F@H off for half the day yesterday getting other things installed.. so the results slacked.. but I figured DirectX (9.24), Codec Pack (4.7.3), x64 Components (1.5.2), Open Office and MS Office needed the juice for a proper install.. hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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