Indiana Jones 5

[Lagomorph01]

I agree with Thunderpeel. I recently re-watched KotCS in preparation for DoD and it pretty much confirms what I said about it earlier, the first half isn't that bad. It kind of starts to waver at the burial ground, and from the Russian camp on, it's just bland. The set-up with Mutt is pretty good, but the characters get no chance to come to terms with each other after they find out that they're father and son. It's set up like Ford and Connory, but there's no real payoff. I agree with the part about Marion too, she argues with Indy in the back of the truck, then he says "They weren't you, honey", and after that they don't really share any emotional scenes together until they get married. No wonder...

...that ended in divorce.

 

The first half is pretty well setup. The only flaws I think come from the "tell, don't show" script they're acting from. It's riddled with anecdotes that don't really add anything to the story, "you rode with Pancho Villa?", "Indy served his country during the war", and the worst offender of that is Mac. How are we ever supposed to connect with a character who instantly betrays Indy and then, after the fact, get's a line like "but we we're on so many adventures together". It just doesn't work that way, and the writers, Spielberg, and everybody on set should've known better.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Yeah, it’s definitely interesting watching with the balance of time. It’s almost a really good movie. 
 

And watching the extras I get why they added aliens, too: By the 1950s the serials of the time had shifted to aliens. It actually made a lot of sense… except they couldn’t let go of the 40s. Even the poster could have been made to look more like a 50s b-movie and help the audience make the mental shift. Except the film still would have failed because they got so much wrong. Sigh. 
 

Oh, and the extras reminded me that Spielberg never would have directed Dial while there was Nazis in it.

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by ThunderPeel2001

[Aro-tron]

Agreed - I think it's actually almost all the 1950s stuff that works the best in KOTCS ... I like the opening scene a lot (although it hits differently if you've read the early draft of Back to the Future before watching the film, like I did), and the cold war paranoia at the beginning (which mostly gets dropped) seems like a good mood for an Indy film. I also liked the '50s film references. Shia-as-Brando is great in the diner scene, but the relationship between him and Indy never seems to have a lot of tension after that point. The aliens are a cool idea that were just not executed in an interesting way. If anything I wish there were more winks to sci-fi b-movies (even if the 'atomic ants' scene feels like a film nerd gag that doesn't seem connected to the themes of the rest of the film, I still thought it was cool).

 

The story and creative direction are all pretty promising, but I agree that the execution is just not there. By the end of the film it's hard to care about the characters

 

They had tried to make the film for so long, I think everyone was either exhausted by the process, or relieved to be making it. I wonder if the team kind of coasted through because they didn't want to add any tension to the process, or threaten to overturn a finely-balanced apple cart.

[Threepwood4life]

On 7/18/2023 at 6:09 PM, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

Oh, and the extras reminded me that Spielberg never would have directed Dial while there was Nazis in it.

 

 

I bet thats why he didnt want to direct it and he passed on it, ever since Schindlers List hes never felt comfortable with using Nazis in his films (although an exception for Saving Private Ryan) I think Crystal Skull was supposed to have ex Nazis as villians but changed to Soviets

[ThunderPeel2001]

2 hours ago, Threepwood4life said:

 

I bet thats why he didnt want to direct it and he passed on it, ever since Schindlers List hes never felt comfortable with using Nazis in his films (although an exception for Saving Private Ryan) I think Crystal Skull was supposed to have ex Nazis as villians but changed to Soviets

 

Yep, exactly. After Schindler's List he said he couldn't make light of them again.

[Udvarnoky]

Concept artist Adam Brockbank shared some illustrations he did for Spielberg's unproduced version of Indy 5.

 

[TimeGentleman]

Seems from replies to some of these from him and other artists on the project that this was a version that Spielberg was playing around with as late as Feb 2020, while he was still on to direct.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Interesting. I wonder if that version of the script will ever get leaked.

[Udvarnoky]

Mangold has made comments to the effect that the existing scripts he looked at felt a little too safe and familiar for him, without a firm sense of identity. (To be fair, it doesn't even sound like the material was considered camera-ready yet.) I obviously can't judge a script I haven't read, but that's pretty in-line with what I'd expect the Spielberg/Koepp INDY 5 to be like. It sounds like Mangold and his writers started totally from the blank page, with the only residue from the earlier concept(s) being the involvement of Indy's goddaughter (who I wouldn't assume had the same function or personality as Helena in the produced version) and the idea of a prologue with a de-aged Indy.

 

China could have been a cool setting, though. It's interesting that the story would have gone to Buenos Aires as well -- you'd think after an installment largely set in South America, they would have avoided that region to mix things up, but had they shot on location (and it sounds like might have been the plan, with Portugal being the stand-in) it could have been justified. DIAL was supposed to have a segment in India before pivoting to Morocco due to COVID levels -- had that worked out, it probably wouldn't have felt redundant to TEMPLE OF DOOM since an urban center would have been visually totally different from the second movie's settings.

 

Anyway, the main reason I bumped the thread is that the movie arrived on disc earlier this month. Glad it made the cut before Disney inevitably abandons physical media.

[Lagomorph01]

Yeah, I'm really glad I got a disc version too! (And with Dutch subtitles, which is a rarity for any Disney-disc these days!)

I recently rewatched the movie and I still love it! It's not a perfect film, but I really like where they took the character and I still think the de-aging part is justified. Also it's a much better conclusion to a series of films than KotCS.

 

On another note, I read something about the 'original' ending (which was abandoned in the writing phase and never filmed):

Appearantly the last act would have taken Indy and Helena to Germany in World War II and Indy would have to protect Hitler from Jurgen Völler. While I do like the role reversal, and I would've loved to see it play out, I think in a broader scope for Indy as a character, and as his ending chapter, the version they shot works better.

Does anyone know if the original ending can be found somewhere for a good read?

[Udvarnoky]

I don't get the impression that they necessarily even wrote it -- more like they entertained it in the brainstorming stage.

 

I agree that DIAL is holding up nicely. It's got some weight and exoticness to it, which feels like redemption after an inconsequential-feeling, stagebound installment.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Seems like you can skip 2 and 4 and have a very nice trilogy.