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Things I wish ScummVM did


Message added by Thrik,

This thread has been split out of the DREAMM thread so that the discussion there can focus on DREAMM.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Udvarnoky said:

Unless I'm mistaken, doesn't EMI already still work natively on modern Windows machines?

Well, not on my Windows machine, without using dgVoodoo2 I get lots of crashes.

 

Anyway okay, so this is Chocolate Doom for SCUMM which means I'm not the target audience at all and that's fine, it just you know, would have been great to get a few new features out of this. ScummVM is great but they really don't seem to be interested in supporting high res asset replacement and when it comes to the GRIME games sure, let's wait another decade on that so maybe in 2032 Monkey4 won't instantly crash while you can play low tier games like Elvira Mistress of the Dark just fine on it. You know, I can take a hint, they absolutely do not care about supporting Monkey4 or Grim. It's never happening so there should be an alternative that actually gets shit done.

 

 

Edited by Zaxx
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7 hours ago, Zaxx said:

ScummVM is great but they really don't seem to be interested in supporting high res asset replacement and when it comes to the GRIME games sure, let's wait another decade on that so maybe in 2032 Monkey4 won't instantly crash while you can play low tier games like Elvira Mistress of the Dark just fine on it. You know, I can take a hint, they absolutely do not care about supporting Monkey4 or Grim. It's never happening so there should be an alternative that actually gets shit done.

 

 

I had a pretty big rant written here, where I explained once again that everything in ScummVM is *volunteer work* and if you're not okay with the direction it's currently taking you can do what I did and become a team member yourself, but even though I'm sick of the project getting crapped on for seemingly no good reason at all, I'd say this is not the place for this kind of discussions :)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AndywinXp said:

I had a pretty big rant written here, where I explained once again that everything in ScummVM is *volunteer work* and if you're not okay with the direction it's currently taking you can do what I did and become a team member yourself, but even though I'm sick of the project getting crapped on for seemingly no good reason at all, I'd say this is not the place for this kind of discussions :)

Keep in mind that I intentionally started my comment with "ScummVM is great", literally the only thing I "don't like" about it is the fact that Escape is not getting the attention it deserves at all. Don't take one comment and turn it into something that it isn't and at the end of the day I'm perfectly fine with using dgVoodoo2 or PCSX2 for the PS2 port.

 

As for the "volunteer work" thing: I actually hate that argument for any kind of project. The fact that something is available for free and is developed by volunteers sure is a thing to consider but I see people use that as a shield against any kind of criticism which is simply not healthy. Can I run Escape From Monkey Island on ScummVM? I can't. Will me shutting up about that because I'm grateful to the work of volunteers solve that issue? No but complaining about it might. :D

Edited by Zaxx
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I always thought ResidualVM did fully support Escape, but having checked its status page it appears that it has quite some issues. I have to say, even when I played Grim using ResidualVM I found the experience rather rocky.

 

It sounds like there are already perfectly adequate means of getting Escape running on a modern machine. Maybe custom patches or functionality could enhance that somewhat? 
 

Personally, I always favour tooling that preserves the original games and just gives them the right environment to run in. ScummVM and ResidualVM are both quite nuclear options in that they essentially replace the engine, leading to all sorts of complexity which is probably why it takes years to get things done. It’s very difficult, and done by fans.

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4 hours ago, Zaxx said:

Will me shutting up about that because I'm grateful to the work of volunteers solve that issue? No but complaining about it might. :D

This is an awful take! It’s a huge part of what’s wrong with the modern internet.
 

tl;dr instead of jumping straight to complaining to someone’s face, first you could have just asked about your specific issue, but you felt entitled, and complaining to someone’s face feels way better when you’re worked up, so you decided to be rude instead.
 

This is an archaic web forum so I’ll just indulge here and use the archaic word “netiquette,” the unspoken rules of civility that one is supposed to ostensibly follow when online. One crucial element of netiquette is you should lurk a place sufficiently before jumping into a subject. In the case of this particular site, one could learn from lurking that Andy, a regular, is also a frequent contributor to scummvm. Two conclusions should be drawn from this: 1. It’s his home as much as yours so be respectful of his space, 2. You have casual and personal access to a developer of scummvm on this board, so instead of entitled complaining into the air about something (for example, what’s the deal with Escape’s lackluster support in ScummVM), you could just ask. Unfortunately you chose to burn that opportunity to be civil and inquisitive by talking over his head to his face. 
 

I can’t see that choice being more effective in getting the outcome you desire. Your dichotomy of “I could shut up or I could complain” is a false one because it conveniently removed being a normal, civil, inquisitive person, which was definitely an opportunity given you in this context.

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I thought that happened in part because ScummVM’s charter was broad enough and supported so many other engines that it was arbitrary for residual to be off separate? The name “residual” implies it was for “the other lucasarts games not covered by scumm,” but even that name is a misnomer when scummvm itself now supported far more than two other engines. 

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10 hours ago, Jake said:

I thought that happened in part because ScummVM’s charter was broad enough and supported so many other engines that it was arbitrary for residual to be off separate? The name “residual” implies it was for “the other lucasarts games not covered by scumm,” but even that name is a misnomer when scummvm itself now supported far more than two other engines. 

 

I'm sure it was a mix of that, too. But I got a sense that if Residual (being the 3D sister to ScummVM -- supporting more than just LucasArts games by the end of its independent existence) had been very popular that it might have stayed separate. Perhaps wrongly. Either way, it was a separate project that had comparatively extremely slow development.

Edited by ThunderPeel2001
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Posted (edited)
On 6/10/2022 at 1:27 PM, Jake said:

tl;dr instead of jumping straight to complaining to someone’s face, first you could have just asked about your specific issue, but you felt entitled, and complaining to someone’s face feels way better when you’re worked up, so you decided to be rude instead.

I wasn't rude towards anyone therefore I disregard your analysis. I just voiced an opinion on ScummVM not really caring about Monkey 4, it's my honest "non-frustrated" opinion, I won't dress it up just so that it sounds nicer. Of course I'm grateful that ScummVM exists but there is nothing that explains why Monkey 4 has to be the "bugged" one on the compatibility list for years now. They don't care about it, almost nothing happened to it since ResidualVM got folded into ScummVM, it's clear as daylight that nobody from the current contributors gives a flying frak about it.

 

And no, this didn't need its own thread, I didn't want this to be a thing to react to but hey, at least you got your Sermon on the Mount even if in a bit misguided way.

Edited by Zaxx
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Posted (edited)
On 6/10/2022 at 11:32 AM, OzzieMonkey said:

For what it's worth, I find that enabling vsync and limiting your framerate helps keep EMI stable. 

Well, to add to that and to find a purpose to this thread:

 

- You pretty much need this to run the game well if you're not using the digital versions:

https://quickandeasysoftware.net/software/emi-launcher

 

- Vsync should be on and you should lock your fps 60 fps and preferably use 60 Hz (or just use half refresh rate vsync along with a 60 fps lock at 120 Hz, that's what I recommend but I know it might be a bit too technical for the avarage user)

 

- dgVoodoo2 is a must, it prevents crashes and provides mostly authentic DirectX8 emulation:

http://dege.freeweb.hu/dgVoodoo2/dgVoodoo2/

 

With dgVoodoo2 you can also increase the render resolution and add some antialiasing without messing up the scaling of the 2D elements like fonts, menus etc.

 

As a result the game stops looking awful on your modern monitor because it's no longer running at 640x480 so the character models actually look like how the artists intended:

bdrpvSE.png

aybEhDj.png

 

The downside is that you have to set shadows to low since dgVoodoo2 has problems rendering them correctly. Hopefully that gets fixed in a later version and then we won't have a reason to care about ScummVM not caring.

 

Edit: Also Monkey 4 is best played with a controller nowadays. The PS2 controller layout is pretty great so based on that you can set up a nice control scheme in Joy2Key, XPadder or any other "keyboard to controller" mapper program. Just don't use the game's built in joystick support since it doesn't work well with modern controllers. Oh and change the character movement mode to "camera relative", that will get rid of the tank controls and Guybrush will move in the direction you push the analog stick in.

Edited by Zaxx
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On 6/10/2022 at 11:27 AM, Scummbuddy said:

@ZaxxHave you considered buying a PlayStation 2 and EMI on disc? :)

I actually have a copy but to be honest I don't like the PS2 port on a technical level. It reads the disk a lot which results in a lot of stutter so it's not a pleasant experience to play (and because of the way how PS2 emulation works you can't really correct this behavior through emulation). That's part of why ScummVM taking care of EfMI support along with the PS2 version (which runs on ScummVM btw., it just crashes almost instantly) would matter a lot in improving the experience.

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On 6/10/2022 at 9:02 AM, Zaxx said:

No but complaining about it might. :D

 

It's not as if anyone has forgotten the game exists, but someone has to do the work. A lot of game engines have very few active developers. What's most likely to produce results: Complaining, or offering to help?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looking forward to the implementation of all original menus. 🤓

No really, the old CMI GUI would be awesome! 🥰

 

Apart from that: ScummVM is a blessing to me. That I can play all those games so easy and without problems on my MacBook ist just great!

 

The only thing that I would like, is if it’d work on iOS. But I guess the problem there lies with the file management and the restrictions of Apple. 😞

I remember, how great it was to play Monkey Island in my Samsung phone back then.  

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Oh yeah, the original menu is there too! :) I still have to implement the thumbnails, but other than that  I managed to get every remaining feature to work as expected.

image.png

Edited by AndywinXp
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32 minutes ago, AndywinXp said:

Oh yeah, the original menu is there too! :) I still have to implement the thumbnails, but other than that  I managed to get every remaining feature to work as expected.

image.png

Niiice!

I hope the 3D accelerations finally work now, too. :guybrush:

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4 hours ago, AndywinXp said:

Let's bring a more positive note to this thread :)

So, about the original COMI GUI not being in ScummVM...

image.png

Incredible! This is a feature I've wanted to see in ScummVM for years! Thank you so much for working on adding this!

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On 6/9/2022 at 6:36 PM, Zaxx said:

ScummVM is great but they really don't seem to be interested in supporting high res asset replacement and when it comes to the GRIME games sure, let's wait another decade on that so maybe in 2032 Monkey4 won't instantly crash while you can play low tier games like Elvira Mistress of the Dark just fine on it. You know, I can take a hint, they absolutely do not care about supporting Monkey4 or Grim. It's never happening so there should be an alternative that actually gets shit done.

I'm not sure why you think ScummVM isn't interested in supporting high res asset replacement. The Grim Fandango Deluxe forum is even hosted by ScummVM.

 

Edit: Just noticed you were mentioning the PS2 port, which is unsupported. It's not a matter of plugging the PS2 version files into the code to get the game working (which IIRC is what ScummVM does, hence the crash), as it is completely unsupported. There's a bunch of differences specific to the PS2 version which would require a coder who owns the game, has enough free time, and who knows PlayStation 2 disassembly to work on it.  That's a tall order. Without that coder, it's not possible to support the PS2 version, and no amount of complaining is going to help. There's a lot of alternate platforms of games that aren't supported. It's not because we don't want to, but because it has code that requires someone with knowledge of the platform and free time to do it.

 

That being said, the Windows version works great. I played through the Windows version on three different systems with three different operating systems (Mac Mini running macOS, MacBook running Windows with Bootcamp, and a Chromebook running Chrome OS) and I was able to play through the whole game without problems.

 

If you have problems, make sure you have all the files listed on our Wiki, including renaming the files to the proper names, etc. Make sure you have the latest stable version of ScummVM. Try running the game with all three of the different display settings (OpenGL, OpenGL with shaders, or software).

 

If all of these didn't help, make sure you have all of the most recent drivers for your video card.

 

If you tried all of that and it still crashes, leave a report on our issue tracker.

Edited by Jenni
fix punctuation
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29 minutes ago, Jenni said:

I'm not sure why you think ScummVM isn't interested in supporting high res asset replacement. The Grim Fandango Deluxe forum is even hosted by ScummVM.

 

 

That was an old ResidualVM project that I headed up back when I had spare time. The original game actually supported adding additional datafiles (it allowed for patches), but I believe Residual was still needed for some things (although I honestly can't remember what). Still, I'd love to see LaserSchwert's AI uprezzed CMI backgrounds/videos inserted into CMI via ScummVM! 

 

Edit: Holy cow. One of the contributors on that forum finished their own Widescreen mod! With AI uprezzed backgrounds and everything!!!

 

http://www.grimwidescreen.com/

 

Edited by ThunderPeel2001
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