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Originally posted by Kurgan:

<STRONG>Hmmf. That's like asking "why didn't Palpy just squarsh everyone's head?"

 

Because that wouldn't make a very interesting or long storyline!

 

But in a game setting, that would be perfectly acceptable...</STRONG>

 

No, Kurgan, my point is that in my opinion it wouldn't be acceptable. Suspension of disbelief is difficult enough when your character has the normal range of Jedi abilities. Lumping the power of flight in with the rest is just too much. As I said before, the cheesiness factor just goes way too high with this one.

 

And it shatters the atmosphere. Imagine, if you will, trying to conduct (or even control) a lightsaber duel wherein both parties are able to fly. Oooh, what fun, and so accurate to the movies, too. ;)

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Well why are so many people talking about bullet time and all that crap? Maybe from one angle it might not be "fun" but from another it could be made to work.

 

I think it's probably more feasible to implement jedi "flying" into multiplayer than bullet time for example (slow motion that slows everything but the user).

 

Yes, you would have to do certain things to make it so that it wasn't impossible to hit your opponent (like special mid-air attacks, etc). There would certainly be issues to deal with, but I don't think it's impossible.

 

Like I said before, if we restrict ourselves simply to what we know and refuse to go forward, then we're just limiting the potential for the game. I say break new ground, doesn't have to be this, but do something cool.

 

In the EU we have all kinds of ridiculous stuff done with the force (ridiculous, if you assume that the stuff in the movies is all that could possibly come from the most powerful of jedi/sith). In a game setting, I think even more leeway and liscense is given to stretch the "believability." How many games do we have where a normal human has multiple lives or can take far more damage than a person ever could in real life?

 

How often do we have all sorts of unrealism (I could rattle of a list, but I don't want to waste the time). Star Wars, if anything, has a bigger blank check for fantasy elements than any other franchise out there. Heck, a lot of, might I say "crappy" stuff has been introduced that lots of fans have hated, but all of it has become "canon" (including stuff done by George himself, need I mention Midichlorians? or Anakin being concieved without a father?).

 

So I would think in a game setting this would not be out of the question. Again, it might be tough to do, it might be better suited as a mod or option. But I think if we can get away with the other stuff, why not levitation ability?

 

Kurgan

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The fly cheat in JK was a little weak with the momentum.

 

If they rid the momentum, and made it easier to manuever I think it could definatley have a place.

 

If they have personalities in JO, Jedi can use Force Levitate and all non-Jedi could have jetpacks, so it would be equal.

 

[ November 02, 2001: Message edited by: SlowbieOne ]

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I think you've misunderstood my position a bit. I don't object to "anything new"... just flight (and bullet time, for that matter). Just the cheesy gimmicks that people want added purely because they think they'd be "k3wl", where they haven't even stopped to consider the effects on gameplay. The things that would get old very fast, novelty items that we'd be stuck with throughout the game's lifetime.

 

Much better off as a mod, yes. That way the people to whom it appeals can play it, the rest of us won't have to put up with it, and development time/resources won't be wasted on it.

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Just to clarify my own position a bit...the way I view levitation is really along the lines of the movies, like when Luke raises the boulders and C3PO, Yoda lifts the ship, etc.

 

These feats were accomplished comparatively slowly, and for a purpose. I don't see why you can't apply the same forces to your own body, to enable you to cross a chasm (using a combination of levitate and push) or get up to a ledge that is too far to jump (using levitate). The cost in Force mana should be heavy and continuous whilst levitating - so you have to be extra careful that you don't run out of Force power, or suffer the consequences.

 

As I said in my previous post, a levitation power should demand the utmost concentration (similar to what is reported in real life, where you have to meditate to levitate). Therefore, I don't think you should have the ability to saber-fight while levitating - one hit and you lose your concentration, and fall to the ground. In a similar way, if you get hit with blaster fire, you should be distracted, and fall down - or maybe be able to absorb one or two blasts before you fall.

 

So it's usefulness is balanced with risk. I don't see how that could be considered cheesy, if it is actually useful in certain circumstances.

 

I am a bit dubious about actually flying Superman style, though. ;)

 

As for rocket packs...yes, okay, if used in short bursts. It would certainly enable non-force users to keep up with a Force Jumping Jedi. :)

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All this flying stuff just isnt related to any star wars film. " breaking new boundaries" NO! NO! NO! it would be prime cheddar it would be so cheesy. Just picture it...... ** 2 jedis are having a duel on cloud city gantry...they are hacking and blocking, showing controlled strikes making this duel particularly epic.....its been raging for a good 15-20 mins...but whats that?? is it a bird? is it a plane? No, its 2 muppets having their own duel 40 foot above the gantry, flying around doing their attack runs more accustomed to Xwing. The 2 jedis look up and state to each other " isnt this an atmosphereic." They disengage thier sabers, clip them to their belts and go off dragging thier feet in search of another battle ground.** Anyone who likes playing with light sabers on the net ( I spit on those people who insist on using blasters) always want to have long duels with dollops of tension. It is like the RPG games some people play where they actually assign roles to each person in the game to reinact. All this flying business will be completely out of sink.

" COME DOWN HERE SO I CAN FINISH U OFF!!!!"

"NO, I DONT LIKE U ANYMORE"

"FOR GODS SAKE MAN, UR GONNA HAVE TO COME DOWN SOME TIME"

"I DONT CARE, I WILL ONLY COME DOWN IF U LEAVE ME ALONE"

 

and it continues.........

 

NO FLYING!!! it would be bloody stupid, and for those with that particular fetish, just make a mod. END OF STORY .

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I'm sorry but I don't know why everyone thinks that if something didn't happen in one of the movies, it's not possible in the Star Wars universe.

 

You do know that the movies only shows us fragments of the universe don't you?

 

Besides, what's the big deal if you can just not use Force Levitate if you don't like it.

 

Thats what JK was based on, lots of options.

 

I was playing Star Trek Elite Force Holomatch and came across something I've never seen. In the Hanger level, there is a powerup called the Anti-Grav Pack. I couldn't believe how good the control was. There was no momentum, so you could move any direction quickly, but at the same time, the movements were not jittery. It was almost flawless in my opinion.

 

I could actually picture saber duels in the air... :)

 

For those of you who have this game, go try it out and let me know what you think.

 

For those of you who don't I recommend getting it for a possible taste of what to expect for JO.

 

I've had the game for over a year now and never really tried the MP only the SP, and I'm twice as excited about JK2 now. :D

 

[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: SlowbieOne ]

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Also in EF MP, there is a powerup called the Temporal Accelerator. With this powerup, I say you travel at about the speed of in between 1-2 stars in JK. The frames per second were still great and it felt like I could move more than twice as fast without losing fps.

 

I can really see Force Speed working well in JO.

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I'm sorry but I don't know why everyone thinks that if something didn't happen in one of the movies, it's not possible in the Star Wars universe.

 

You do know that the movies only shows us fragments of the universe don't you?

 

It's not that I don't think it's possible, it's that I most vehemently don't want to see it implemented. I think it's cheesy, corny, an atmosphere stealer bar none, and it would utterly ruin the game's feel for me.

 

Besides, what's the big deal if you can just not use Force Levitate if you don't like it.

 

Which is all well and good if you're playing by your lonesome, but the multiplayer scene is not so cooperative. :)

 

Edit: Ever make a post and find out that you didn't close a tag, but only after the fact? Irksome. :)

 

[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: Denise ]

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Anybody here go see "The One"? excellent use of timewarping stunts/effects. And I think susch things could be done well in games like JK2 but you would have to be careful how you implemented them, it all comes back to the question about ForceSpeed/Bullet Time it would seem so why not have universal slowmotion like in the "lazy matrix" mod for UT, which in my opinion worked well. As for Levitation and Rocketing packs in JK2, bring it on!

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That reminds me, and I haven't played EF, but I know that Quake3 (base engine) had both a flight (levitation) powerup and a speedup powerup (haste).

 

So perhaps EF just took those, or maybe it modified them. Haste sounds about right, the levitation I only used a few times, but it basically allowed you to float around and the control was pretty good (both are time limited).

 

Also, just like with the Quad Damage, if you kill the person carrying one of them, they drop it, and whatever time is left on it can be used by others. Not sure if that was the way it was in EF...

 

I could see that working with a rocket pack type deal. The force thing would be different though. Or the rocket pack could recharge itself over time (like in the manowars mods for JK/MotS). Lots of possibilities...

 

I think the power of flight is very advantagous, so either it should be available to everybody if it is used (as a mod or as the default). Probably as a mod/mutator/mode since it would drastically change the gameplay once people got used to it. If it were just a temporary powerup (jetpack that could be used by all, or some kind of jedi artifact that gives the ability to fly, though that might be too hokey for some people), it would work much like Q3 or perhaps like EF.

 

If it were a built in ability (ie: non jedi start with jetpacks with limited fuel; jedi start with force levitation and limited mana) then it would be equal as well.

 

Kurgan

 

[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

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I dont really want Flying in...

 

However, If they were then I would like it done like this.

 

If you're a non Jedi then have a Jetpack, but If you are a Jedi then have Force Jump. Easy : )

 

However, we have to think about the licensing people here, would they be too pleased to see Jedi flying? You can't just go altering the whole Jedi thing, If they were able to fly why haven't we seen them in ANY of the films?

 

 

wardz

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Well it seems like most of you don't like the flying idea.

 

With all of us wanting so many different things in this game, it will be hard for Raven to please everyone.

 

If flying isn't included, I won't lose any sleep over it. :)

 

With so many people gettig into the editing scene lately, a mod for flying is almost inevitable anyway.

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Well there's still a big difference between force jump and a jetpack.. check out manowars. ; )

 

I just figure that if flight can appear in Quake3 and not "ruin" the game, then why not here? Granted, I'm asking for more implementation, but it's a similar idea.

 

I've never heard of anyone complaining about it there...

 

Kurgan

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INDEED PEOPLE THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JUMP/FORCE JUMP AND LEVITATION.

 

I called someone a hipocrite on another thread for saying juming was cheesy yet he supports the levitation idea. He didn't understand why I called him a hipocrite.

 

JUMPING IS NOT CHEESY! FLYING IS!.....

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If you could fly, in theory you could snipe people from the air. You can't do that with force jump (except by pure luck or using splash damage).

 

That's one glaring difference.

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