fitzwilliamd Posted May 10, 2002 Author Share Posted May 10, 2002 developer who e-mailed Just to reiterate, he did not write it to me; I was responding in anger to a public post: I read it in here; JRA_Wolf claims it was from his personal e-mail: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=52046 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzwilliamd Posted May 10, 2002 Author Share Posted May 10, 2002 your saber passes through people several times without a hit. This is just plain wrong. If I see my saber pass through someone, I expect to be rewarded with a hit. In the previous version, if a block was sucessfully excecuted, the attacker's saber would rebound violently and the defender would be able to time a quick counter. Now, a saber block simply happens without consequence. Preach on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l-lan_solo Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 just so ever one knows, i only play NF duals so this i have no idea about probs in FFA and stuff like that, but i well tell you what i think about NF dualing and the new patch. i love the new patch for the most part, i couldn't be more happy that the stuped no stilled DFA people are shot down, i mean don't get me wrong, the red saber stance is ok by me but DFA got my last nerve. i think it's much better now that the sabers are weeker, i mean let me ask you all this, have you ever died and not know how or why you did? all you know is that you had about 90 life and now your dead because the guy you were fighting most have hit you from some where on the map using ether the yello or red saber stance, all i know is that hasn't happend to me with the new patch. saber fights are longer and more even and over all more fun, and thay look better, like when you swing down and the other guy is jumping at you the saber connect and it looks and feel better. there are less unexplaned hit and the the blocks are shown better but in the end theres only one thing i can say "you can please some of the people some of the time, but you you can't please all the people all of the time" so no matter how much thay patch the game theres going to be stuff people don't like and you ether have to live with it and move on or stop playing. "i don't know half of you half as well as i should like; and i like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" Bilbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l-lan_solo Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 mr. fitzwilliamd if you'd please look in you copy of THE LORD OF THE RINGS (if you have one, and i hope you do) i think you'll fine that the way i said it is the way it is said in the book. unless your looking at a different time he said that, but i'm talking about when he said it to every one at his party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzwilliamd Posted May 10, 2002 Author Share Posted May 10, 2002 Oops! Sorry l-lan_solo, I was just being silly. You see, I have not been sleeping well. Before the patch I had this dream about Tavion being my personal masseuse… …of course, following the massage she would cauterize little smiley faces into my behind with her lightsaber, but hey, you take the good with the bad … After the patch my dreams consist of purple toads inserting their young into my back, enclosing them beneath the skin, and writing Jedi Outcast scripts while I wait in horror for them to emerge from my back … Ah the circle of life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l-lan_solo Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 i can't help but wonder if you need more or less sleep fitzwilliamd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzwilliamd Posted May 10, 2002 Author Share Posted May 10, 2002 Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash25 Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 So, let me get this straight. By making it harder to hit people, Raven has created a situation where, if you want to compete, you should do nothing more than swing widely at your opponents because you are just as likely to hit them as they are to hit you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzwilliamd Posted May 11, 2002 Author Share Posted May 11, 2002 So, let me get this straight. By making it harder to hit people, Raven has created a situation where, if you want to compete, you should do nothing more than swing widely No, it is not harder to hit people. Please read this interchange I dueled this guy for at least 10 mins and thought that the match went pretty even. I heard his model scream as much as mine, so I presumed I was doing good. But he still had 70 health left at the end. Precisely, the feel and feedback are gone. You would have been better served to hold down attack and try to strafe into position (requires little skill, but is effective now). I know you have to tme your hit properly... I have never ever gone in swinging randomly. We have a new a game now :/ It appears this is precisely what you will have to do with 1.03, granted with a bit of strafing and some rudimentary aiming. But spam is King now. Similarly, the guy who was owning the duel server I played in yesterday used light like a "headless chicken". This trend is happening on more than just duel servers. It the past, you could time hits, use strategy to keep him off balance, damage him, force him back. Skill is not a prerequisite now. My saber literally goes through him causing no damage at all (happens to me quite often in medium). This is one reason you cannot compete with the spammy types. How can you employ your techniques, if when they land, nothing happens? This is a very common occurance. Beautifully timed combinations, dead on accuracy is not being rewarded by the game. It is quite frustrating. You can still kill, but it is unsatisfying when you set up a perfect combination, get your opponent right where you want him and the saber slices him like butter doing little to no damage. But who could tell? The feedback is negligible. Flash25, this is one of my problems with the new patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcwhtdtmc Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 Ok... it's been a few days since my first post on this thread, and my opinions, like my saber skills, have changed quite a bit. I write this coming off a 20-0 win streak in an NF duel. Some of my opponents sucked, most were challenging. This will probably be a pretty disconnected post with no continuity whatsoever. Deal with it. Prepatch, I enjoyed fighting good people, even if I lost. I would get better, and eventually either hold my own or come out on top. Heck, I even somewhat enjoyed finding ways to spank different sorts of spammers. Some fights (typically ones against really really good people) completely bypassed my brain and ordered my butt to scoot to the edge of my seat. They pumped a bit of adrenaline, and just plain felt -cool-. How many days has it been since the patch? (I got it the day after it was out). I don't suppose it really matters... the point is that I have had exactly one fight post-patch that was even half as enjoyable as one of the MANY awesome duels I had prepatch. This isn't because I lose more (see above). It's not because there are less good people around. I really can't explain it... I thought before that given time, it might grow on me, but I still think 1.03 is just less fun. You all know what Dark Age of Camelot is, right? Multiplayer crack to those who play it. 1.02 managed to break one of my friends of an 8 month long DAoC addiction (every waking non-girlfriend non-class hour went in to DAoC). He doesn't even usually like first person shooters! After a blissful week of JK2, I managed (devil that I am) to convince him to patch. He's playing DAoC again. I hear people shouting about increased blocking making the game suck (I'm one, I should know). Some people say throw is the new spam skill, some say backstab. Yellow spins are too slow, the bell-curved damage distribution sucks. Sabers go through people without doing damage (amen, Ono-Sendai!). These all strike me as personal opinions, which really isn't something you can measure and collect in to a grand unified statistic. However, I can say that I'm having less fun now than I was prepatch. Fun isn't (I don't think) something that changes from person to person in that manner. Sure, what constitutes fun does change, but whether or not you have it is a universal boolean variable. Go vote in the new poll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nien Nunb Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 For God's sake! JUST PLAY THE GAME! Have Fun! Isn't that what the game was created for? Not for endless debates on when to time your swing with a goddamn lightsaber, if you just stop taking it so seriously it bcomes a lot more fun, honestly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzwilliamd Posted May 11, 2002 Author Share Posted May 11, 2002 the point is that I have had exactly one fight post-patch that was even half as enjoyable as one of the MANY awesome duels I had prepatch. Sigh. This is my experience as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nien Nunb Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 (Bored Yawn) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash25 Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 Almost everything you describe is the exact opposite of what I get when I play. I know exactly when I hit him and what swing I use next will give me the kill. There have been a couple of instances where my saber has gone through a player and a hit wasn't recorded, but they are so few and far between that they are negligible. It amazes me that people complain about feedback in the patch when that was one of the most broken things before. The pre-patch game had much worse hit detection than 1.03. This can't even be argued. People used to die and the saber wouldn't even hit them. At least now there is a block to account for a non-damaging hit, before it just went through people. I don't know how people are playing, but I know when I get hit, and when I hit somebody. I've talked with the people I've played with and I've heard nothing but praise for the new patch. Another thing is that there has never been a "headless chicken" owning any of the duel servers I have been on, and I pay duels almost exclusively. People say that all you have to do now is spam the blue stance and you will win when that was all you had to do before, but with the red stance. The trick of pre-patch saber fighting was to use the red stance and keep your opponent within a 180-degree arc of yourself. It was spam, just of a slower kind. There was very little real skill. Just swing, if you hit then good, if not just backup reset and try again. You didn't have to find any holes in their defense because you always hit with the red if they were in range. This is not to say that people did not play with skill, but to use the words of Fitzwilliam, skill was not a prerequisite. As long as you could press attack and backup adequately, you were formidable, and it didn't take long to get good at. Sure, you could have used the yellow or blue stance, but that was mainly for personal reason as it put you at a disadvantage. There was really no practical reason not to use the red stance. Now we have a system where you can't just run up to someone and attack because they will most likely block it. You now have to use maneuvers and techniques to either outflank them or find a hole in their defenses. Saber combat is now much more of the chess match it should have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aletoledo Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 just to throw my two pence in... since the patch I've seen the use of force powers become more diversified. prepatch it was either a healer or a drainer you were up against....now you see a lot more powers, notiably protect and mind trick, being used effectively and not just because its different. heck I don't even place points in heal anymore because its so weak and if someone is able to get past my defensive moves, heal isn't going to save me. so in regards to the damage system expanding the use of the orphaned force powers I think its a good change. I can't help but think when I read the people that criticize the patch, that they are the people that go in swinging and pray to hit something. good timing isn't who hits the attack button first. good tactics isn't knowing a combo move your opponet doesn't. these things require experience....playing a game for two days doesn't do it. in time people will learn how to play this 'new game' (i.e. patched) and we'll find that its a much fuller experience then scripting out the dfa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzwilliamd Posted May 11, 2002 Author Share Posted May 11, 2002 I saw one guy start a heavy overhead swing, I slashed at his gut with the strafe-swing. His hands hadn't even started coming down yet and my swing just went right through him causing NO damage at all. Previously, when an opening became available, either due to strategy on my part or my opponents carelessness, I could slash through his defenses and do damage. This is not the case in 1.03. I can get an opponent open and slash his legs out from under him, but he mysteriously blocks from all angles. I would use terrain in the past to get above my opponent to slash down at him. Nothing works in this patch, even when the opponent is cooperating to test and learn the new game mechanics. Utilizing tools that require some modicum of skill are useless now: terrain, feints, and other thoughtful strategies. Example: Before I was able to feign defensive action away from the intended target on my opponent’s body. I would spar with my opponents, diverting their attention away from my real purpose. With 1.03 this is useless as the intended target, once opened, is either blocked mysteriously, or is undamaged by a clean hit: e.g. their exposed back, or their open midsection as they swing overhead as you noted above. Please dialogue with us, Raven. Tell us you are working to solve these problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThingAhMajig Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 pressed send twice lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThingAhMajig Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 Everybody has a point... But I think ppl are missing the point of it all. First let me state that I am an exploiter, I will use every cheap trick that I can find and use it to the fullest. Reading through the posts, I find a common factor in all this. 1. People are angry because they cannot kill as effectively as they are used to. 2. Most of the ppl posting on this got USED to a certain way of playing. 3. They found common formulae and various derivations of their said "Skills" which worked effectively and made them effective players. 4. Any change of said rules and rules of their occupying world changed ie: Laws of Gravity. And they are finding a hard time adjusting to the new physics. ie: If gravity lost all of its potency, fat people would benifit since they'd be lighter and woud have more strength. Skinny people would have a problem with this, since fat people would be able to toss them around, causing perminent and further injury to their frail bodies. I see this as a separation of not just 2 types of people... the fat and skinny, but of a 3rd class as well, which incorporates both fat and skinny people. The obvious benifits are quickly realized for the fat people... and it seems the odds are stacked against skinny people. But the difference and the 3rd distinction arises when either the fat or skinny learn to adapt quickly to the situation. This adaptation is using the giving rules and making it work for you, instead of trying to change it or cry about it. There are very *few* ppl catagorized in the 3rd framework. These are the people who seem to succeed in any given situation... Unfortunately, the voice of the ignorant, weak-minded, and lazy is overshadows them. I say stop complaining, grow up, and learn new ways of exploitation. This is called developing Skills. Since it seems that any new formula used to its fullest potential is called an exploitation. As for saber spammers... crouch, block all their attacks and give them a swift downward hack... Use the new heavy combo... I guarantee they will die rather quickly. Is this a cheap move? An exploitation? Skillz? I dunno, you be the judge of that. There are more ways to destroy these lazy incompetent retards, just strive to find them out and use something that works for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l-lan_solo Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 well i just got done playing and i saw this "headless chicken" of yours, and it was my stuped friend who just got the patch yesterday, and let me say at one time he was good, not as good as me but good (and i'm not saying i'm a god or anything, but i'd say i good) but he ran in playing like the "headless chicken" and i kill him 5 times in a row and after that i told him to stop and play like someone who has an idea of what there doing, so he did and kill me 2 times in a row. and i've play other "headless chickens" and i've never had a prob killing them, it just take time and skill. like one thing i saw if someone hits you so many time so fast it makes them mess up and there guy well some times look like he's trying to fly and things like that and when that happends it's a free hit. as for the swing right thrugh someone, it was that way in 1.02 and if you didn't see it then i guess you were flying in the air trying to DFA someone to much to take a look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShogunBlade Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 ok here is my 2 copper on the patch.. i like it... it has watered down certain things that i thought i couldnt live without.. no spin in yellow stance unless you hold the button down for a few seconds.. ok.. so i lost that.. i was never into dfa although i could pull it off as well as the next guy.. generally reserved for the spammin prick that did it to me in the duel previous.. now we have new spammed moves.. back stab.. so what dont 6 anyone and you dont get juked in the gullet.. the ability to slap a saber away and counter strike is profound with this new patch.. it was there in the 1.20 version but hey.. most of you didnt know that because all you could do was dfa.. jump backwards.. dfa.. jump backwards.. about 100 times untill atlast either you got caught slippin or they did.. yeah i play on the darkside servers.. best servers in the game imho.. zone blows.. i dont play there no more.. romperoom it seems.. unpoliced and very gay.. anyway back to the patch.. i would like the return of the yellow sance but i have learned to compensate for that and have moved into the blue and red for variations.. to throw my opponent off then return to yellow for a down sweep special or a feint.. dude.. i cant believe people are saying sabering takes no skill.. basicly they see the noobs runing around strafing left with blue stance spinning like a crazed tazmanian devil on the best crack in the house.. i beg you to do it to me.. lol youll get decapitated for your efforts.. so in short the new patch is very much like a chess game.. yeah some folk still look for the cheap way to kill.. thats expected in everygame.. what did you expect a game featuring ray parks and ewan macgregor fighting another epic battle at your finger tips.. hell no.. compy games are good but not that good.. so ill close with this lil tid bit.. if the people are kickin yer butt with the new patch.. regroup, practice with the bots a few days to get a feel of what you can and cant do. and if you still think things were better before the patch.. ala.. spining a complete 360 (unrealistic to boot) with a dfa to kill anyone at anytime.. elevating your ego to the highest peeks of cheese.. then by all means uninstall the game and reinstall it.. dont download the patch... whining wont make the patch go away.. and the patch has in my opinion an even number of nay sayers as there are yay sayers.. Raven knew what they were doing true the light needs a tad bit slowing down but then a well placed yellow will take em out of that spin every time.. this patch rocks.. it added more depth to the game.. if you get good witht eh new tactics you can still kill with one or two hits.. stop cryin and challenge yourself to learn something new.. good day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul-Burn Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 The main reason why you "hear them getting hit but not die" is because many hits in 1.02 were idle saber damage which was 5hp back then, it's now 1hp, why is that? They want people to swing more? But it's a f'n LIGHTSABER. It should do some damage even when not swingged. 1hp = nothing... Btw, can someone explain to me how the red stance is considered strong now? It does like 50 damage... (so does DFA as it seems) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash25 Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 Originally posted by Soul-Burn Btw, can someone explain to me how the red stance is considered strong now? It does like 50 damage... (so does DFA as it seems) Strong is a relative term. Compared to the blue and yellow stances, the red is strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank1234 Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 "since the patch I've seen the use of force powers become more diversified. prepatch it was either a healer or a drainer you were up against....now you see a lot more powers, notiably protect and mind trick, being used effectively and not just because its different." I've seen the exact opposite. Darkside is used mostly by players who can't score a lightsaber hit (see, grip/lightning). Lightning will only kill off all the other people who can't score a hit with a lightsaber. Any player with a shred of skill that I've met is running absorb 24/7. The newbies spam so much force power trying to knock them over -> backslash (or lightning/grip since they can't get a single hit otherwise) keeps them at near full force the entire game. These players usually use pull or mindtrick to make backstabbing/shooting easier. Duels are completely pathetic. They should be retitled saber throw competition. Anyways, could someone post an IP to a server where people are going 10 or 20-0 and having the best duel experience ever? So far, every duel server i go to is a headless chick insanity fight or saber chucking contest. I want to meet the "skilled" player(s) this patch that will wow me with their straight up saber combat, because i haven't seen it happen. Blank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qazzaq Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 This patch sucks. Me and my friend tested HEAVY STANCE, I hit him 15 times, 13 out of 15 swings were blocked and resulted in NO DAMAGE. THE ONLY GOOD MOVE NOW IS BACKSLASH PLEASE FIX THIS!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzwilliamd Posted May 11, 2002 Author Share Posted May 11, 2002 THE ONLY GOOD MOVE NOW IS BACKSLASH PLEASE FIX THIS!!!!!! It is not completely accurate to say that only backslash is effective; it is, perhaps, the most effective. In addition to backslash, the medium special, and the strong DFA are still fairly useful in moderation. Originally posted by qazzaq This patch sucks. Me and my friend tested HEAVY STANCE, I hit him 15 times, 13 out of 15 swings were blocked and resulted in NO DAMAGE. I feel your pain. When an opponent swings wildly or slips up and you slash a heavy right down his throat, even if his saber is on the other side of his body at the end of his wild swing, he can magically block it. It is difficult to enjoy the beauty of a well-timed strike when a good hit results in no shield or health damage. I have watched a talented player hit every opening on his opponent rhythmically, artistically, so that it takes your breath away. His opponent could not touch him. The resulting damage was negligible. This is very discouraging. Before 1.03, I would work to create openings, slash them, and do damage. Now, taking a shot at a wide-open adversary does not mean you will damage them: skill, lightning reflexes, and adroit timing do not ensure damage, they can only ensure a clean hit. A somewhat guided randomness is the order of the day. 1.03 is so buggy that you can be completely immune to light stance attackers just by facing them, even while moving. If you do not swing or show them your backside you are invulnerable to their attacks. Hopefully, Raven is play testing the new patch and will have some fixes available soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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