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Does mixnmojo whine about non-adventure games too much?  

29 members have voted

  1. 1. Does mixnmojo whine about non-adventure games too much?

    • Yep, they sure do.
      8
    • A little.
      4
    • Not really
      6
    • Definately not.
      11


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I used to appreciate the mojo point of view, especially when compared to the JustAdventure point of view, but lately it seems that mojo has become more of a home for whining about the fact that LucasArts isn't making any pure adventure games anymore.

 

I found the "preview" of gladius that was done by someone who has never even played a RPG nor seemed remotely interested in doing so especially useless. It seems like most of the articles being created by mojo these days give us few details about the games themselves, but contain lots of "gee, THIS isn't very much like an adventure game, but I guess we'll look at it anyway - too bad they didn't put more adventure stuff in here." type content.

 

I understand the fact that not everyone has the same interests and what-not, but, you know what? Variety is the spice of life. It's possible to have a fun game that isn't a straight up classic adventure game or even one that isn't mostly adventure.

 

Anyway, I'll probably be visiting mojo much less now, mainly due to the fact that the adventure game genre is evolving and mojo can't deal with it, and I don't enjoy reading whiney rants.

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I agree that the Gladius preview left something... a lot... to be desired, but other than that I feel Mojo has been good at embracing all genres. The whiners are usually a few Mojo readers wanting LEC to concentrate 100% on adventures. Just my 2 cents. :)

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Regardless of what I thought about the Gladius article that Sarah wrote, I don't think it's really sound judgement to say Mojo whines all the time on the basis of that one article. All of the other E3 articles written are mostly positive. RTX Red Rock looks very promising to me, as does the new Indy game. Even though it isn't directly a LucasArts game, we were all very impressed with Psychonauts. We've even had some good things to say about the Star Wars games this year.

 

I think there is a lot of complaining on the Mojo site about the lack of "pure" graphic adventures, but if you really look at it, a lot of those complaints come from the readers and not directly from the staff. That we can't censor, nor would we want to.

 

I'm sorry if you found the article objectionable, but I hope you look at the big picture instead.

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If I'm not mistaken, Mixnmojo has been created mainly as an appreciation site for LucasArts adventure games. That's because they were the only genuine and unique thing that deserved a fansite. The best proof of it is that people still talk about them here. I don't think anyone will want to post anything about RTX Red Rock five years after its release.

 

And although LEC may have created and possibly still creates quality games of other genres, so do other companies. Have you ever seen a Sierra fansite? An Electronic Arts fansite? A Micro$oft fansite? I guess not, bacause those companies don't have "fans", they just have "customers".

 

So I wouldn't accuse anyone here of "whining", though they definitely have reasons to do it (you can always accuse me, but I'm just a reader). Actually I think mixnmojo is adapting quite well to the changing LucasArts policy.

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Mojo isn't always negative. We were hating on Star Wars and other non-adventures more last year because we were bitter that LEC had put out nothing "original" for over a year. Luckily JKII turned out to be fun.

 

Before you start hating on the Gladius preview too much, read Sarah's comment which she left at the end.

 

Just because one person doesn't like a game, it doesn't mean everyone reading the site has to hate it, or that everyone working on Mojo hates it. Odds are we will have more up and down opinions of Gladius and all the other games. Also if you want to hear more good stuff about it from someone who might know a little more about it, I'm sure we'll be interviewing some of the Gladius team in the upcoming months.

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Looks like we're going to have to put one of those disclaimer things at the end of our features a la: "This article does not necessarily reflect the opinion of Mixnmojo.com etc...". Perhaps this will dissuade future comments of this nature.

 

The concept of a uniform "mojo" point of view is basically non-existant. The staff members have very different opinions, and tend to disagree about the quality of certain games & genres, just as our readers do.

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I thought my preview of The Clone Wars was pretty optimistic, if a bit cautious (given games like Battle for Naboo and Obi-Wan there are reasons to be cautious). That game hasn't got a scrap of "classic adventure" in it, but it looked really fun. If the finished product turns out to be anywhere near as fun looking as the demo we were shown by LucasArts, consider my copy more than bought.

 

Gladius is getting really mixed reviews from what I've seen and heard. I don't think it's that far fetched for someone to not like what they saw. The Penny Arcade people loved it. I personally couldn't really decide one way or the other on Gladius from what we saw at E3, especially considering they showed absolutely nothing involving the grand two-story epic arc that they were touting.

 

I think a lot of people are turned off, or are on the fence about Gladius because if you've never played an RPG before, the demo and info LucasArts was giving at E3 was not really given in a way that would easily suck you into the world they created.

 

The way games like The Clone Wars and Double Fine's Psychonauts were demoed they drew you in immediately and made you want to tear the controller away and start playing. I suppose that's the nature of RPG's versus action or platformers. If you're not familiar with how they're supposed to work (and many of our readers, and our writers, aren't -- though I'm sure more are than one would think) you just sort of sit looking at it with your mouth hanging open.

 

Also, I know it's officially the nature of a "preview" article to discuss every single good point you can milk out of a game demo and sprinkle in a pinch of caution (then keep up the happy goodness until you pan the game in your review. IGN is especially good at this "awesome awesome awesome awesome... oh, it sucks" pattern), but if the reviewer assigned to a game was legitimately uninterested by the demo given, why not write that? Mojo isn't just free advertising space for LucasArts. While Mojo's Gladius preview might have been a bit overboard or hasty, a lot of people share a similar view to the author's.

 

As I said earlier, I'm excited about Gladius, especially when comparing the demo I saw a few months ago to the one shown in E3. If they keep progressing at that rate it could be an awesome game. I think that the story and depth of the characters will be what makes or breaks the game though, and pretty much none of that has been revealed yet. Mystery!

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Here's a related bit from the Psychonauts preview comments:

 

Posted by:TheJackal (5/28/2002 @ 22:44:17) - Reply

Am I the only one who realised these reviews are judge quite quickly. I'm looking foward to this adventure game, but it seems that anything that is NOT adventure is NOT good... according to these previews in my opinion.

Posted by:telarium (5/28/2002 @ 23:21:07) - Reply

Well you're not the only one who has said that lately. I'm curious, though. Can you tell me why you feel this way?

 

I have to disagree, though. I don't know if I'd consider Psychonauts, RTX Red Rock, or Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb to be adventure games. Action/adventures are something different to me. But still, I've honestly liked all of those games. If you look at my review of Bounty Hunter, I'm also looking forward to that game as well. It could be fun.

 

Going back, I've also given positive reviews to games like Star Wars Starfighter, Jedi Starfighter, and Jedi Outcast. We've also published positive reviews of Galactic Battlegrounds and Rogue Leader. Those aren't adventure games, surely.

 

In the end, I don't deny that we tend to focus more of our attention on adventure games. We're LucasArts adventure game fans first, and I'm not ashamed of that. But I'm more than willing to give other games a chance, and I believe we've made a pretty good effort in that respect.

 

But if you feel you have good reason to say we judge non-adventure games too harshly, I'd honestly be interested in why you feel that way. :)

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As a follow up to that, I think you can just look at the reviews at Mojo to see that most opinions are pretty balanced. Jedi Outcast was rewarded with what? 4.5 out of 5 skulls? You can't get further away from an adventure than that game.

 

Also, as Andrew and Jake mentioned, RTX, Psychonauts and Indy have gotten great coverage from Mojo, and they're not graphic adventures however lenient your defenition may be.

 

Of course, I did give Obi-Wan 1 out of 5 in my review for Mojo, but that was because the game was horribly bad, not because it wasn't an adventure.

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Well, I don't know if you can't get farther away from an adventure game than JKII... I mean, for an FPS game at heart, there are at least a few logical puzzles rather than just jumping things. Most RTS games are MUCH futher away from adventure games, just for the fact that you aren't focused on one character, but rather an army of them in general. Although WarCraftIII makes it closer with the RPG elements, which Adventure games share some commanality with.

 

Anyway, I think what really stuck into me was that the story for Gladius was... lacking, or at least what was told of it was. So "the reviewer" seems to focus more on story than action perhaps? Is that so wrong now days? Think about it, especially with a jerkass judge saying that games are not speach, which for the most part... is becoming far from the truth. Sure looking at DooM and Mortal Combat... yeah, there is a whole paragraph of story for it, that is all. And the only reason I like(ed) DooM was because of the technology, and now for that slight-retro feeling. Adventure games are the main exception as they are pretty much ALL story, however as time has gone by, games generally have gained a more and more complex story following them, and formed within the game play. So to have a brand-new game being especially light on story seems a bit... lame. (Especially coming from Lucas Arts.) I imagine however that the story probably has taken the back burner compared to the engine and combat stuff, however, I wouldn't be a bit supprized if by the time Gladius comes out, it DOES have at the least, a fairly gripping story. Or at least I hope so.

 

But yeah, I think Andrew had a pretty good point when he said that Mojo isn't just a free advertising place for Lucas Arts, if something isn't interesting, or falls short of claims... then yes, they should make it pretty clear that at least as it stands, this is how it is. As for the IGN stuff... REALLY annoying. :)

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i'd just like to add that we could only get 3 of our staff to E3, and none of them were RPG gamers. We still wanted to put out previews of all the games, and people expected that from us. hence the gladius preview by a non RPG Gamer.

 

But so what? Gladius is the first RPG that LEC have ever made (other than new star wars ones), a lot of mojo readers ad staff were wondering how exactly they were going to do it.

 

we give different view points to other sites, because we are such massive Fanboys/girls of the original titles that LucasArts were so renowned for.

 

Mixnmojo was started as monkey island site, grew into a site about graphic adventure - eg point and click.

 

we have evolved it to cover LucasArts in general, but everyone that works on the site will probably always be more interested in the "adventure" titles than anything else.

 

Sorry if the articles offended you, they are only hands on previews of games, by unqualified web "journalists" who can give no opinion but their own. Surely an opinion is an added extra to most other coverage which is all the same crap just stating the facts about the game, and showing some pictures.

 

Also, if you read the comments on the gladius article, you will see that most people who saw it agreed, and the person who wrote it apologised for playing it down so much.

 

And i dont think its fair to say we whine about the lack of adventure games, only about the mass hordes of SW games, that have now thankfully been reduced to a few excellent looking titles.

 

I'm sorry you feel the need to read mojo less now.

it saddens me, but there is nothing i can do. Mojo is as Mojo as it ever was, just with added Starwars.

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I agree there's a lot of disappointment about no more "classic adventures" being churned out by LEC but I don't think Mojo posts rant after rant about it. The Gladius preview is by someone who admittedly isn't an RPG fan and, as she stated that it isn't supposed to be taken seriously.

 

The other previews have little snippets of "how is this game like an adventure game" but that's to show those only really like the old adventure games (a whole lot of Mojo readers) that maybe there's some elements of their favorite genre in other types of games.

 

Of course we've ranted a bit on LEC not making adventure games anymore, we can't deny that, but it's not like we've bashed every Star Wars game we've come across simply because it's not adventure. In fact, the recently released LEC Star Wars games have been quite good.

 

Sorry that you won't be reading Mojo as much. I agree there is a lot of bashing of Star Wars games which a lot of the time irritates me as well (though it's not like we should filter out all the rants posted in comments), but I think we've tried to be pretty level headed in dealing with LEC's games.

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I feel bad for not responding to this thread sooner, but as a fan of the site: I feel the need.

 

Originally posted by weeee

I used to appreciate the mojo point of view, especially when compared to the JustAdventure point of view, but lately it seems that mojo has become more of a home for whining about the fact that LucasArts isn't making any pure adventure games anymore.

You started off saying the "mojo point of view." Exactly. The International House of Mojo has a distinct personality among communities, and I can't think of another adventure site that is so dedicated to their own style of gaming.

 

I won't mention the Gladius report as enough has already been said.

 

I understand the fact that not everyone has the same interests and what-not, but, you know what? Variety is the spice of life. It's possible to have a fun game that isn't a straight up classic adventure game or even one that isn't mostly adventure.
Variety IS the spice of life, and LucasArts does that better then any other gaming company. When I want variety, I know that each and every adventure game I buy from LEC is going to be a new experience in a new world. As for having fun with a game that "isn't mostly adventure", it's very possible... just label the game properly: RPG, FPS, RTS, etc. I’m always up for a multiplayer game, but the specialty of this community is adventure games. (FYI, I don't refer to the games I still enjoy as "classic adventure games.")

 

Anyway, I'll probably be visiting mojo much less now, mainly due to the fact that the adventure game genre is evolving and mojo can't deal with it, and I don't enjoy reading whiney rants.
I can't honestly say I've seen you around any of the community forums, community channels, or have read any articles by you, but to come on the forums and drop a threat like that - you must be an old timer who really is upset with the content. Maybe you’ll find whatever initially drew you here another day.

 

The adventure gaming genre may be evolving, but that doesn't mean for the better. I'll be honest; I only play games that I enjoy. I don't have to deal with poor adventure sales or forcing my employees to keep up with cutting edge graphics; however, when all things are equal: everyone agrees that titles like Loom, Day of the Tentacle, The Dig, The Monkey Island Series, Sam and Max, and even Grim Fandango are more entertaining then the "Action Adventure" or "New Age Adventure" titles that we have seen as of late. Mixing genres may work for Kid Rock, but lack of originality isn't an excuse to evolve away from something great.

 

Don’t believe me? “I don't think anyone will want to post anything about RTX Red Rock five years after its release.” – RappScallion. It’s not a coincidence that at least ten of the hosted sites at Mojo revolve around Monkey Island. Great stories make great adventure games…

 

ZeroXcape

:max: Fan of Mojo Since ‘97

:manny: Founder of The Grim Fandango Network ‘98

:3headed: Founder of EscapeMI.com ‘00

:r2d2: And a few hundred Star Wars Sites ’97-02

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I wrote the preview in question.

 

I'm offended that, because I do like adventure games, suddenly I can't have a negative opinion on other types of games without being a whiner. Did I mention adventure games in my preview?

 

It had nothing at all to do with adventure games. I like other kinds of games ... my current favorite game is SSX Tricky.

 

I just didn't think there was anything remotely fun about dusty gladiators standing around in a dusty arena. I like the idea of Final Fantasy... just haven't gotten around to playing them, that's all. Gladius was sort of similar to that, but with gladiators that looked washed out and uninteresting.

 

I don't know much about RPGs, but I know that interesting characters help a LOT. And, I might add, my ignorance was grossly overstated -- I work video game retail. and I think that gives me quite a bit of knowledge on what consumers like. That's what it all really boils down to, anyway -- the consumers.

 

I just don't think that people are going to buy this game. Period.

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