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A very disapointed fan


Kryllith

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Of course, some people would argue that technology actually goes backwards between Episode III and IV. Something about a loss in a lot of available technology/information as a result of the clone wars (which is surprising, since historically speaking war usually results in technological booming).

 

Anyway, when I came in I saw there were about 500 people browsing this forum. I'm guessing this is some glitch, since that's an extremely high number for this time of the day (at least it seems so, peaks usually seem to run around 3pm Central US time). If this isn't a glitch then damn it, POST PEOPLE! We need some new ideas on what to talk about (and more views on the current discussions).

 

Kryllith

 

PS. On further observation (based on the fact that it dated this 7/25 post as being posted on 3/15) I imagine the big list of people is simply a glitch. Bah!

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  • 4 months later...

I really like Star Wars since I’ve played Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast. Then I saw SW:AotC, I become more obsessed with SW. Finally I’ve collected all the SW Trilogy except Episode III( haven’t film yet). Then I heard about SW in RTS format. I thought it will be awesome game ever. I go check with the official site for info, I saw some of the pic which make me says wow. Then I went to brought both GB & CC. When I played the game, I find it very disappointing.

 

1st. The AOE engine does not suit Star Wars. I personally think Starcraft engine is very suitable for Star Wars.

2nd. Upgrading unit is not necessary at all. Upgrading from recruit to trooper to hvy trooper and repeater, I personall think it is very stupid. Why don’t they just make a saperate unit of trooper and repeater troopers? Separate Jedi Padawan and Jedi Knight. They should have make those unit separated not to be upgrade. Tech upgrade does not suit Star Wars. AOE engine really suit for them because they are playing old civilization to modern civilization but not Star Wars.

3rd. A lot of unit does not even exist in Star Wars cannon. Have you ever see Stormtrooper, Clone, and etc riding an animal? I only saw Rebels & Gungans riding animals. Lot of unit from Heavy Mech Factory does not exist at all.

4th They created Gungans and Wookies faction which I think it is not necessary at all. In Star Wars Cannon, there not a lot of unit from Gungans & Wookies were shown. They created some more unit for them which doesn’t exist and I think this is suxx.

5th. Playing SW:GB remind me of Playstation WarCraft II. I have 4 type of trooper u have 4 type of trooper, I have 4 type of aircraft, u have 4 type of aircraft. It is ok to have same amount of unit but it is suxx if each faction unit have the same function. Then, choosing which faction is worthless. Since each faction unit are all the same except for the art work and some faction advantages, I don’t see any joy in choosing faction to play. All are the same.

 

I really hope they will make another SW RTS format using StarCraft engine or other similar to StarCraft.

 

-Eliminate all non-existing unit. Espeacially from Heavy Mech Factory.

-No more upgrading unit outlook, instead upgrade they ability.

-Rebel And Wookies faction should be combined

-Gungans and Royal Naboo should be combined

-Jedi Temple should be available for Republic & Rebel Alliance. All Jedi type for Republic and only Jedi Padawan and Knight for Rebel. Republic Jedi are stronger then Rebel Jedi

-Variable Lightsaber color will be spawn out for Jedi(like in AOE II, where u will have female worker or male worker build from Command Center) .All Jedi rank will have Green or Blue lightsaber.

-Sith Temple for Galactic Empire only. Can build Sith Padawan, Sith Knight SBL(Single Blade Lightsaber) Sith Knight DBL(Double Bladed lightsaber), and Sith Master. Sith Knight DBL is stronger then SBL and cost is higher. Sith Master will fire dark Lighting in long range and use Lightsaber in short range.

-Allow unit using blaster to shoot air.

The game is too obiviously balance. Make it like Star Craft or C&C which I can call as unobivious balance. I really regret buying the Original and Expenstion together. I should have tried the Original first and try it out. Flame me if you want, I will stand on my points. I do really really hope they will remake Star Wars using Star Craft engine. C&C engine also not a suitable engine for Star Wars.

 

I am so SORRY if I am too extreme on this. I am telling what I fell now.I really do apologize again. Flame me if you want.

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Many of the units and upgrades are in SW:GB because of the engine its based on, and for game balance. Also, yes i have seen a stormtrooper on an animal, in episode 4. Most of the things you dont like wouldn't be changed because it would be too hard. The only way to correct these things, to an extent, is to base a sequel on a different RTS engine, or to develop their own.

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(1)Eliminate all non-existing unit. Espeacially from Heavy Mech Factory.

-(2)No more upgrading unit outlook, instead upgrade they ability.

-(3)Rebel And Wookies faction should be combined

-(4)Gungans and Royal Naboo should be combined

-(5)Jedi Temple should be available for Republic & Rebel Alliance. All Jedi type for Republic and only Jedi Padawan and Knight for Rebel. Republic Jedi are stronger then Rebel Jedi

-(6)Variable Lightsaber color will be spawn out for Jedi(like in AOE II, where u will have female worker or male worker build from Command Center) .All Jedi rank will have Green or Blue lightsaber.

-(7)Sith Temple for Galactic Empire only. Can build Sith Padawan, Sith Knight SBL(Single Blade Lightsaber) Sith Knight DBL(Double Bladed lightsaber), and Sith Master. Sith Knight DBL is stronger then SBL and cost is higher. Sith Master will fire dark Lighting in long range and use Lightsaber in short range.

-(8)Allow unit using blaster to shoot air.

 

1 - Gameplay > realism. Removing any unit that was not specifically in the movies could be as bad for gameplay as frantically adding every single unit that was in the movies.

 

2 - I don't see any real difference, though if I understand it correctly it would be: instead of making a recruit into a regular, you make it better by upgrading the armor and weapons. Which seems like more of a cosmetic change to me, and could require a lot of micromanagement.

 

3,4 - You want LESS civs? Wookiees and Gungans are shown to be very unique in this game. Gameplay > realism.

 

5,7 - Possibly, though everyone needs at least a padawan / apprentice to get holocrons. Taking out certain civ's abilities to get holocrons could unbalance the game. However, in the "new SW RTS", there might not even be holocrons.

 

6 - A cosmetic change, but it could make a SW game look better.

 

8 - It would make AA worthless

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Originally posted by Darth Joka'ar

I3rd. A lot of unit does not even exist in Star Wars cannon. Have you ever see Stormtrooper, Clone, and etc riding an animal? I only saw Rebels & Gungans riding animals.

Ummm, yes, Episode IV: A New Hope. The fact that Storm Troopers were using Bantha mounts was specifically addressed when Luke and Obiwan were looking at the wrecked Jawa Crawler. As for Fed clones... well Ep. III hasn't come out yet...

 

Kryllith

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Originally posted by simwiz2

8 - It would make AA worthless

 

Not unless you make Air Craft abit stronger and make the blasters just abit weak to the point you have to have many troops to take one out and such or somethimng like that.. Besdies, Air craft should be stronger and the bombers should make the biulding collapse quickly considering AA are quick to make/biuld.

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I finished CC at the weekend. I thought this and GB were both good games. Lots of gameplay, very addictive, good storyline I thought in CC. I enjoyed them both. In my opinion, the only criticism I would have is that they are a bit repetitive.

A quick sidenote, started to play JK2:JO and came across a power droid very early on in the game and thought wow! - it's an eye opener when you are use to the GB scale of things :)

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This might be the wrong time to mention this, but they were riding Dewbacks, not Banthas.

 

I DO think that they should have made the units a bit more distinctive tho. Things like the TF not needing shelters and the Gungans building them underwater is cool and strategic, but that's about all I can think of. All civs have about 90% of the same technology, and the gap between them is listed by LucasArts as being + or - 5%. 5%? Maybe if I had two hours to build that would make a difference...

 

One thing about StarCraft that makes me agree with the poster, the three civs played very differently. Zerg were weak as snot but incredibly cheap to produce. Protoss were hella expensive but one unit could take out two or three of the other guys by himself. That kind of disparate strategy does NOT exist in SWGB. Everyone does the same thing: build mass peons, build a TC, a MF, a Fort outside their opponents territory, maybe a couple research buildings, some turrets, then they either troop rush at T2, mountie rush at T2 or heavy weapon/mech rush at T3. I think the civs should be disparate enough to actually warrant radically different strategies for each one. To that end, an engine like StarCraft WOULD be better suited than the AoE engine. But I think the same result could be achieved with what currently exists and some tweaks that make the civs more different, instead of more the same (in this upgrade, the Wookies can now research the same technology that every other freaking civ already does).

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Originally posted by W0RF

This might be the wrong time to mention this, but they were riding Dewbacks, not Banthas.

We SEE them riding Dewbacks, yes, when they are scouring the desert near the crashed pod and find evidence of droids. The part I was talking about is after Luke and Obiwan find the wrecked Jawa Crawler.

 

Luke: It looks like Sandpeople, alright. Look, there are bantha tracks, gaffe sticks..

Obiwan: These tracks are side by side; Sandpeople always ride single file to hide their numbers.

 

The implication was that troopers rode Banthas during the attack on the crawler (to make it appear that the attack was by Tuskens, not Imperials).

 

Kryllith

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Originally posted by W0RF

This might be the wrong time to mention this, but they were riding Dewbacks, not Banthas.

We SEE them riding Dewbacks, yes, when they are scouring the desert near the crashed pod and find evidence of droids. The part I was talking about is after Luke and Obiwan find the wrecked Jawa Crawler.

 

Luke: It looks like Sandpeople, alright. Look, there are bantha tracks, gaffe sticks. But, I've never heard them hitting something this big.

Obiwan: They didn't, but we are meant to think they did. These tracks are side by side; Sandpeople always ride single file to hide their numbers.

 

The implication was that troopers rode Banthas during the attack on the crawler (though it's certainly possible that they just herded them along).

 

Kryllith

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Because there are Bantha tracks does not mean they rode Banthas. I suppose you're going to say they also used gaffey sticks to attack the Crawler? Why would they use such primitive technology when they have :atat: ?

 

The tracks and sticks were planted "evidence". I doubt Sandpeople would just leave their weapons lying about unless they were busted.

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I said they might have herded them along. Consider this though. If you're wearing armour, weapons, and additional equipment and you're wandering through the desert with a herd of Banthas, would you walk or ride?

 

As for using the primative creatures, we already KNOW at least some of the troopers were riding dewbacks, so why not banthas...?

 

Kryllith

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Course it is, though it certainly makes sense. In any case, as you pointed out, we do see them riding dewbacks (at least in the special edition, don't remember if they rode them in the original) which certainly counters the original thread...

 

Kryllith

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Fine if Stormtrooper is really riding a Dewback or Bantha. But having all civ riding is not realistic, in fact it is idiotic. Have u seen Clone, TF Droid, and Confederate Droid riding? Since when Gungans having aircraft? Why dunt u call that idiotic?

 

I dunno why u see having blaster unit shooting air is idiotic rather than realistic. Make it blaster weaker damage and AA stronger damage.

 

Jedi/Sith is not Bounty Hunter for you to hire. They SHOULDN’T be in all civ.

 

They make creative artwork, but not gameplay. Why bother playing any civ since they are all the same. Idiotic isn’t it?

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Well if your problem is that the game isn't enough like the movies, I'd suggest that if the Galactic Empire is to have a Sith Temple, then it should only be able to have 2 Siths in the game at one time... (btw, I don't have a problem with laser shooting air, but it would probably be highly ineffective, at least at the trooper level).

 

Kryllith

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The funny part about that is that you're absolutely right! First evil civ to 2 Sith 0wnz the level!!!

 

:D:laughing::smirk2::lol::rofl::nut::whtsmile::tng1::laugh6::wazup:

 

<everybody in Jabba's Palace laughing>

 

I agree with him that the civs should be more distinctly different one from the other, but not that all units and damages should be hyper-realistic.

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I'm a disapointed fan too.

 

The original GB was good, because it was about the first Strategy game of Star Wars. (I thought FC sucked, but with CC, I'm no longer sure...).

 

I was VERY disapointed with CC. The two new civs are not so different from the others and... LOOK AT THE CAMPAIGN!!!!!!!! It sucks!!!!!!! The first levels of each new civ were completly bad. I, who is not an expert at creating campaigns, could have done those scenarios in an hour. (especially the confed's first with 60% of the map blank).

 

I completly agree with Darth Joka'ar.

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Originally posted by Darth Joka'ar

(1)Fine if Stormtrooper is really riding a Dewback or Bantha. But having all civ riding is not realistic, in fact it is idiotic. Have u seen Clone, TF Droid, and Confederate Droid riding?

(2)Since when Gungans having aircraft? Why dunt u call that idiotic?

 

(3)I dunno why u see having blaster unit shooting air is idiotic rather than realistic. Make it blaster weaker damage and AA stronger damage.

 

(4)Jedi/Sith is not Bounty Hunter for you to hire. They SHOULDN’T be in all civ.

 

(5)They make creative artwork, but not gameplay. Why bother playing any civ since they are all the same. Idiotic isn’t it?

 

1 - Giving all civs some kind of mounted trooper is a necessity for game balance. How would a civ without mounties counter a turret rush? Or crack enemy turtling early on? With LASER TROOPERS? :rolleyes: Have you ever seen laser troopers attack turrets?

 

2 - Just like 1, giving all civs aircraft is a necessity for game balance. Otherwise Gungans could be toasted with air cruisers every time, and all the enemy would need to do is keep some ground units to quickly destroy the AA mobiles, as the air cruisers turn their town into a pile of mangled rubble.

 

3 - Because even if the damage done is only 1, and assuming an average aircraft has a total of 70 hp when shielded, that means if you have 35-40 repeaters in an army, then every 2 times they fire an aircraft dies. This group would toast about 6 aircraft in a few seconds, with their rate of fire. Which is not much worse than a smaller but less versatile group of AA troopers would do, making them useless. The point is that even if the damage each does is miniscule, if you have enough troopers it will do appalling damage. Considering AA troopers' slow rate of fire and their inability to double as ground attack like repeaters, it just might make them obsolete.

 

4 - I would sure want the ability to build bounty hunters if I was being attacked by Jedi - Jedi are strong already and without bounty hunters to counter them Republic would be overpowered.

 

5 - Well they made more creative artwork AND better gameplay than AoC, so I'm not complaining. The civs are by no means the same, or even SIMILAR with the exception of republic and rebels. And even those have noticable changes. The civs are as unique as AoC, and MUCH better balanced.

 

This game was based on the AoK engine, so like it or not it will take many features and much of its general gameplay from AoK. Could they have made the units not such ovbious copies of AoK units, could they have spent more time balancing more drastically different civs? Of course. But is the game awful because they didn't? No.

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Originally posted by simwiz2

4 - I would sure want the ability to build bounty hunters if I was being attacked by Jedi - Jedi are strong already and without bounty hunters to counter them Republic would be overpowered.

I'm pretty sure he said that Jedis (or Siths), not bounty hunters, shouldn't be available to all civs. I have to disagree with this in any case. On a case by case basis, Rebels, Naboo, and Republic (Gungans too, technically) all had at least one Jedi fighting for their cause. Empire, Confederacy, and Trade Federation all had Sith--course, it was the same Sith master, also working for the Republic, in all cases. So what of the wookies or Gungans (outside Episode I)? Considering that the Jedi were peacekeepers who would be assigned to aid various people (or civilizations) in the course of their missions, I think it's highly feasible that any Civ would have access to them, the exception being those already with access to the Sith.

 

Kryllith

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It's even Simpler Than That, Kril. Build a Star Wars strategy game that severely limits or bans the use of Jedi to fight your battles, and watch your game magically die right before your very eyes! It's FREAKING STAR WARS!!! Who in the blue hell is going to play a Star Wars game if they can't have them some Jedi?!?

 

Here come the Realism Police; they're gonna make you enjoy the game!

 

:atat: :atat: :atat: :atat: :atat: :atat: :atat: :atat: :atat: :atat:

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OK. First, I'd just like to say that IMHO, though this game is a damn lot like AoK, and they could have shown a bit more creativity, it's still a damn good game.

I think the main problem for the people who dislike this game is, sadly, that it's Star Wars. Simple as that.

If it was some completely made-up thing... exact same people, guys with guns, guys with armor, clones, flying things, people with laser swords.... and SW as such didn't exist... the issues here would never have been raised.

My guess is that it's all about what we've seen in the movies, read in books, etc. "Oh, oh, but, that snowspeeder should have a tow cable.." "Hey! I saw stormies firing their blasters at the Falcon when it lifted off from Tatooine!" "Gungan flyers!? what the! That wasn't in Ep 1!" "Jedi don't belong to every civ!"

... if this was not SW, it would have been accepted as just part of the game. No questions asked.

But seeing as it isn't- and, mind, I'm not asking for it- we have people like Joka'ar and darth54 who want everything to be perfect, based on the movies, I haven't seen it, I'm right, you're wrong.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist!

Think about gameplay! Who here would like it if only Stormtroopers would be able to have mounties- as someone said, making rushes and dealing with turrets hard as hell? Who would love the fact that aircraft can be shot out of the sky by laser troopers, completely screwing air-strong civs and wiping out the whole concept of Air Cruisers? Who doesn't want Jedi- the main concept from SW, something everybody (generalisation, I know) loves!? Who wants Gungans to have no air- but wait, they wouldn't need it, air sucks anyway since troopers can blast air to atoms!

 

Sorry if I'm being too general... and also, people who have seen me in other threads may accuse me of being a hypocrite (I've suggested such things as eliminating the Wookies as a civ because they're not in the movies/books) but honestly, I've never suggested something so unbalancing and... so.... ARGH!

(I don't know how to say it and I don't want to insult people. This should be a debate, not a flame war.)

 

Oh, and darth 54, all hail thee as the miraculous scenario creator. Not to diss you-I'm quite envious of your scenario skills, I'm not that great myself- but I think LA did a great job. Could you have thought of that great story all by yourself? Perfectly linked storyline, running through the two campaigns and properly resolving in the final Republic mission. The threat of the dark side, lightsaber battles, a mix of RPG, B&D, and many more... and anyway, the two new civs are great in my opinion.

I haven't seen any scenarios of yours, but if you have something that rivals LA, please, put it on GB's server. The only ones I've seen that are about as good as LA's are those of SCN punk. So please, show us what you can do, rather than randomly insulting LA without anything to back it up.

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Originally posted by simwiz2

 

1 - Giving all civs some kind of mounted trooper is a necessity for game balance. How would a civ without mounties counter a turret rush? Or crack enemy turtling early on? With LASER TROOPERS? Have you ever seen laser troopers attack turrets?

 

2 - Just like 1, giving all civs aircraft is a necessity for game balance. Otherwise Gungans could be toasted with air cruisers every time, and all the enemy would need to do is keep some ground units to quickly destroy the AA mobiles, as the air cruisers turn their town into a pile of mangled rubble.

 

3 - Because even if the damage done is only 1, and assuming an average aircraft has a total of 70 hp when shielded, that means if you have 35-40 repeaters in an army, then every 2 times they fire an aircraft dies. This group would toast about 6 aircraft in a few seconds, with their rate of fire. Which is not much worse than a smaller but less versatile group of AA troopers would do, making them useless. The point is that even if the damage each does is miniscule, if you have enough troopers it will do appalling damage. Considering AA troopers' slow rate of fire and their inability to double as ground attack like repeaters, it just might make them obsolete.

 

4 - I would sure want the ability to build bounty hunters if I was being attacked by Jedi - Jedi are strong already and without bounty hunters to counter them Republic would be overpowered.

 

That is why I suggested about having all civ to be different. It is not necessary to have Mounties to counter turrets. They should have thought of other type of unit to deal with turrets. As for aircraft, ok, I take it as all civ should have aircraft; still try to make them different from each faction. Take Starcraft as an example. Do Zerg have awesome aircraft to deal with the GREAT aircraft from Terran and Protoss faction? It really depends on how you use the faction and how to unleash the power of each faction. Having 30-45 Marines also can toast up 6 Wraith Fighter. Still, they make it happen. It depend how good is your strategy to deal with it. Do Protoss or Zerg really need to have the same Siege Tank in order to counter it awesome range and damage? Again, it depend how well your strategy to deal with it.

 

Originally posted by simwiz2

 

5 - Well they made more creative artwork AND better gameplay than AoC, so I'm not complaining. The civs are by no means the same, or even SIMILAR with the exception of republic and rebels. And even those have noticable changes. The civs are as unique as AoC, and MUCH better balanced.

 

Creative Artwork…………YES Better Game play…………NO Civs unique…………NO Better Balanced…………YES

 

Comment: Too oblivious balanced. Again (I don’t know how many times) no point choosing civs because (again, don’t know how many times) they are all the SAME . Even the old Command & Conquer: Red Alert (not RED ALERT II but I) is much more balanced in a unique way.

 

 

Originally posted by simwiz2

 

This game was based on the AoK engine, so like it or not it will take many features and much of its general gameplay from AoK. Could they have made the units not such ovbious copies of AoK units, could they have spent more time balancing more drastically different civs? Of course. But is the game awful because they didn't? No.

 

AoK engine is more on civilization advancement from ancient to modern (so-called). It was not meant to use from already advanced civ which does not need any tech upgrade.

 

Originally posted by CorranSec

 

OK. First, I'd just like to say that IMHO, though this game is a damn lot like AoK, and they could have shown a bit more creativity, it's still a damn good game.

I think the main problem for the people who dislike this game is, sadly, that it's Star Wars. Simple as that.

If it was some completely made-up thing... exact same people, guys with guns, guys with armor, clones, flying things, people with laser swords.... and SW as such didn't exist... the issues here would never have been raised.

My guess is that it's all about what we've seen in the movies, read in books, etc. "Oh, oh, but, that snowspeeder should have a tow cable.." "Hey! I saw stormies firing their blasters at the Falcon when it lifted off from Tatooine!" "Gungan flyers!? what the! That wasn't in Ep 1!" "Jedi don't belong to every civ!"

... if this was not SW, it would have been accepted as just part of the game. No questions asked.

But seeing as it isn't- and, mind, I'm not asking for it- we have people like Joka'ar and darth54 who want everything to be perfect, based on the movies, I haven't seen it, I'm right, you're wrong.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist!

Think about gameplay! Who here would like it if only Stormtroopers would be able to have mounties- as someone said, making rushes and dealing with turrets hard as hell? Who would love the fact that aircraft can be shot out of the sky by laser troopers, completely screwing air-strong civs and wiping out the whole concept of Air Cruisers? Who doesn't want Jedi- the main concept from SW, something everybody (generalisation, I know) loves!? Who wants Gungans to have no air- but wait, they wouldn't need it, air sucks anyway since troopers can blast air to atoms!

 

Sorry if I'm being too general... and also, people who have seen me in other threads may accuse me of being a hypocrite (I've suggested such things as eliminating the Wookies as a civ because they're not in the movies/books) but honestly, I've never suggested something so unbalancing and... so.... ARGH!

(I don't know how to say it and I don't want to insult people. This should be a debate, not a flame war.)

 

OK. First, fring air with blaster is common sense. Since they choose to make Star Wars RTS, they should have make it movie based. OK. Fine if they couldn’t follow the movie based. But it is really bored to have all civ to be the same. Te AoK engine is not suitable for STAR WARS at ALL in every way. What I can give credit to is only for the artwork. Other aspect is consider FAIL.

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