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Rogue74

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Originally posted by RpTheHotrod

How do you use admin on servers if you know the admin pass?

 

Ummmmm.. why you post'n this question.. You running your first jk2 server? I doubt a NOOB such as yourself can afford the neccessary bandwidth. (TWL doesnt allow cablemodem/dsl servers) but you might run some cheesie 4 player server without much lag :)

 

Anyways, I just lub this flam'n stuff..

 

You guys are noobs.. dont even know how to admin a server.. I'm tired of given you NOOBs all the answers.. keep complain'n though.

 

Ok.. i can't help it..(I'm actually a nice guy)..

 

TO admin a jk2 server simply look for any website that tells you how to admin a "quake3 areana" server.. its the exact same thing.. raven didnt touch any of the server admin functions. So there are plenty of websites out there that give this information out.

 

Anyone of you noobs heard of an internet search engine?

 

BF_Hoby kills self.

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Originally posted by SS_Sniper

heh I played on your server I use /kill. I saw a person from another clan find out your password and ban a admin.

 

Yeah and he thought he was god for 2 hours until I found out about it. Then he was very humble for a couple days until our clan unanmously (major sp) voted to have him banned.

 

Yeah here is thread regarding that:

 

http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=18&threadid=13922

 

In the time that I have been part of the BF clan we have never had to ban any one from our server until now.

 

What does this have to do with the topic?

 

BF_Hoby kills self.

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we are not talking about killing AFK's here

 

Well actually let me take that back lets talk about it for a second.

 

My opinion: I am against AFK kills but in competition im NOT.. If your NOOBie enough to sit in chat while in a match then you deserve to get killed while AFK. (use rw or teamspeak to talk to other clansmen dont use team chat). (only teamchat binds muahahahah)

 

 

Man you guys can make a river with all the cry'n you noobs do.

 

BF_Hoby kills self.

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Originally posted by SS_Sniper

...12 year old..

 

Funny your banner (hate'n computer since '94) indicated that your much younger than me.. :)

 

Don't get too personal about all this flame'n from me.. Im just venting anger at all the noobs who join our server and complain instead of adapt. Its sorta my pet peave (sp).. . Sure these moves might be cheap..but as you read (if you even read it).. posted by other peeps (not just me and my 50 posts) that this is very common in many games. Yes, different games will do different things when you commit suicide.. But its always been there. Whatever Raven does to the command it won't change the fact that peeps that adapt to what the game envoirnment is are the peeps that win. No matter what commands are there and how they work.

 

Complaining about it just gets it nufed.. these same peeps still will not win in ladders because they have no concept of adapting.. instead the master the complain'n thing.

 

You read it yourself in that JO post where the guy was thinking that all cheats according to him where removed in 1.04.. and another noob didnt even bother to read the list of updates.

 

Also we had the same problem JO had but instead of complain'n we got our guys together and started learning this strats. If we had'n then we would be just like you guys.. complaining about how we cant get anywhere on the ladders because of these so called cheats..

 

Im frustrated with the fact that a noob who comes across someone who is better than them thinks "They cheat" instead of "I can learn from this person". It just supprises me..

 

I even posted about it on TWL because I saw how bad pub peeps just didnt even try.

 

http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=18&threadid=10742

 

You can see many posts and noone there says that I am wrong. I know I am right.. As I win many games.. So many that I annoyed the hell out of my cousin because we competed a lot. But I knew right away the best way to win at anything is to learn everything there is about it. And the best way to do that is get involved with people more than you. Learn what they know then move on to the next person who is better. Soon you will find yourself on the top of the pile. You may never been the most leet but doing this will definetly help you noobs get better than what you droing now.

 

LOL..

 

No matter what complaining you do it will never help. The fact remains you guys need to adapt. Yes raven should be made aware of all exploits and they can determine on their own what needs to be nurfed and not. The community will determine by participate if they like the new patches or not. So far 1.04 has hurt the community more than help it from what I have seen. Rumors of its premature death are already flying around and peeps are looking for the next good game like UT3 or something else.. we (bf) are waiting on Tribes 3 but wished that JK2 lasted longer. Anyone else notice the decrease of players in servers and clans in ladders regarding JK2?

 

BF_Hoby kills self.

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Reading some of the replies to this thread. Now I know where the dumb asses that suck at the game and just sit on the ledges of bespin and pull the entire game hangout. You're all mad because you get blasted the second you touch the enemy base.

Some of you are just damn hypocrits I read one post saying that people use the bind because they want to feel better about themselves... ummmm wait a second doesn't getting mad about not seeing that you killed someone mean you just don't feel good about yourself because of it???

BF is one of the friendliest clans in jk2 and to complain about their server because of that is just stupid.

CTF would be SO slow paced and boring if this was taken out, but that's probably how you want it so you don't get killed all the time.

RpThePullN00b stfu.

Get the hell out of ctf and stick to duels you stupid n00bs.

 

GOTTA GO HAVE SOME FUN SEEING HOW MUCH I CAN PULL AT BESPIN LATER GUYS.

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Originally posted by RpTheHotrod

Looking at this debate in this thread...I have to say that the people against the /kill command are winning by far. Their reasons totally out-weigh the /kill-er's reasons.

 

Hey, just thought of something. If you /kill-ers say it isn't about score, then why are you trying to fight against a "lose more points per kill" change?

 

Of coarse, they'll say they are worried about the health change...but...then if it's not about score, why do you kill AFKs? Why people who chat? If score isn't the point, you gain nothing from killing them, you only lose a few seconds wasting your time killing them....oh....those few seconds are nothing?...well then you defeat your arugument about killing yourself to save those important 1-3 seconds....

 

Oops...somebody had better change their argument.

 

I've been quietly watching this thread, but no more... there are more whining crybabies in JK2 than any other game I have played before. If Raven had a pair, they would have made a patch to fix any "real" bugs, and told the rest of the whiners to stfu.

 

ok "Hotrod" 1st, this isn't about who is "winning"... if you have to get off on "winning" an whining contest on a forum board, you are sad...you and your whiny buddies will never understand what /kill is for... you will only complain about it and cry because you feel you deserve the "honor of the kill" or your beloved points

 

2nd... none of us give a crap about our personal score, most don't even look at it.. whoever said they look at the score screen to ck on ping is right... most of us do that... caps (or capturing the flag and bringing it home w/ your flag on the stand) are the only thing that matter to us... we play as a team, not individuals.. most of the whining is coming from the ffa/duel crowd, where points count... I do not play either, concentrating on CTF only... most of us do not care a thing about those gametypes... we don't come into your servers pissing on how you play, or what you do.. why do it on ours?

 

3rd.. I kill all afks and chatters that I can in CTF... reason why?.. I do not want them closer to the flag than they have to be...those seconds that I spend killing them save me from later having to chase them out of our side when they have the flag on their back... if you are afk, why not goto spectate and get out of the way?... and if you have to chat during gameplay, telling your team where the flag is hidden or your route to the flag, etc.., then you deserve to be killed before you can do anything about it... if you are asking your buddy how his day went, then go chat on aol or something, at least goto spectate mode and do say team talk only (yes it only shows up to other spectators), so as to not interfere with others gameplay with your bs

 

4th.. quit whining about getting "full force and health" when you respawn after dying... so?.. and?.. now you want a penalty for /kill.. reason being what?.. because we don't have to wait to help our team we are "immoral" or have no "ethics".. give me a break... if you don't like playing JK2 CTF with all of its gameplay items, then don't.... quit crying... whiners like all of you have almost ruined gameplay as it is now... and since Raven does not have a pair, they might listen to all of you who cry because you want to dumb down the game even more... i even had a whiner the other day try to tell me that rage/speed combo is a cheat and should be banned.... the constant flow of crybabies is amazing

 

on /kill...the whole reason that MOST people do this is to improve their teamplay... do you lose your warm fuzzy feeling that you get from killing someone and having everyone see it on the screen?.. who cares.. if the reason that you are playing is to get satisfaction from seeing your name as having "killed" someone, or whatever need or craving you have to be known as someone who can "kill" other players (ie lacking self esteem/confidence), you have other problems.. and if its about your personal points lost, then go play ffa, duel, or someother gameplay where personal points matter... REALIZE THAT IT DOES NOT MATTER TO US.. WE DO NOT CARE ABOUT PERSONAL POINTS.. we had a member of our clan get a -35 in a match.. and you know what, he did his job ingame...we didnt laugh or make fun of him, and he didnt feel bad about the score, you know why?.. because we won the map...thats all that mattered to us...its not personal for most of us... some probabally do /kill for their own reasons, but most of us do not... those people need help too

 

The overwhelming majority of us use /kill to help our team.. nothing more or less. Speaking of teams, why do you think that members from other clans will join one side in a public server? We join one side because we like the teamplay aspect of the game, and want to play with others who respect that also.. how many of you crybabies have team energize or team heal on your force configs?.. not many at all, and most have never used it in a game.. you do not care if the team wins, only about your own points.. and its not to see how many kills we can get vs. non-clan folk.. we really do not care about it... if it makes you feel better if you get to kill us b/c we have letters in front of our name, then get a life.. we do not care who we kill, only that someone does/does not cap

 

 

In closing, you can

1. adapt

2. quit

3. keep crying to us about how unfair that is, which we do not care if you cry or not, we will keep doing it

 

RONIN_SITH /kills self also

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see if you can follow

 

CTF

 

equals

 

Capture The Flag

 

not

 

See who can get the highest score and most kills

 

If you can't kill the enemy flag carrier with something other than pulling/pushing him to his death, then u really need to stop playing the game, or at least stop complaining about the way others play.

 

Ok, so if someone is killing themselves on dual/ffa servers, then they are morons and let them lose kills over it. On ctf, if I get thrown off, I have my /kill bound so I can restart and helpout the D on my team or get prepared for another flag run. Simple as that.

 

Anyways.. my 2 cents.

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ROFL this has been the funniest thing i've read in quite a while. jeez Hoby you must have been hella bored eh? I am BF.T_Aoshi btw and as long as Flash and Hoby agree, we formally challenge you n00bs to a game: 3 clansmen against 5 or 6 of you n00bs. Show up on our server and accept our challenge or you can be 'dishonorable' and crap your pants as you run away from our challenge(how does this wed at say 830est sound?).

 

i will not discuss the values of self-kill as they have already been stated, but i will say that when i was a silly n00b i too thought that /kill was cheap and unfair. i was watching [HEL]Sniper :p (now -[HK]-Sniper :p and one of my good friends) play on bespin one day and saw him constantly rage/speed get the flag, capture, kill, repeat. at the end of the game i think his team won 13 or 14 to 0 and the teams were even number wise. i then realized that this method of gameplay is EXTREMELY effective. now i'm one of the most effective cappers that play and if you doubt me come to our server and i will show you, but dont get too annoyed if i selfkill alot cause it's probably one of the most helpful things i've learned. you n00bs just cant handle it and all you people that play this game to 'get the most frags' are idiots and should stick to mindless ffa battles (where i'd own you too btw). if you dont wanna deal with selfkill stay the hell away from me, my clan, and our server as well as any of the top 10 teams on the twl ladder cause i guarantee you that we will rock you hard and then deride you as the n00bs you are. ctf is about teamplay, tricks, tactics, strategies. if you play for frags you're not a team player, if you dont bind kill/wallglide/strafejump/flak jump you dont know any good tricks, if you dont use speed+rage, protect+absorb, or absorb+tricks you will suck with tactics, and if you dont know all the little ins and outs of every map(like the bespin sniper window trick) you will never come up with any good strategies. if you have none of the above qualities, stay the hell away from me cause i dont want you on my team k?

 

on a side note dont call me a 'quaker' or whatever cause this is the first fps i've played, dont call me a 12 year old cause i'm in college, dont call me a loser or a nerd because i have a girlfriend that i've been dating for over 10 months, and just go burn in hell all you n00bs cause you've ruined this game for all the better players by your constant b!tching and complaining.

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few more pennies to toss on this thread...

 

afk killing? Go spectator, give room to someone who has the time to play or someone waiting to get onto the team. Or even better, log of for a bit. Competitive play means u gotta make the time to play.

 

If you have things that may take you away from the game, then take care of them but do it in a way that does not take away from other peoples play or bothers other players. I like Ronin_Sith's reasoning for afk and chat killers, and I pretty much agree. Time killing another player messing around with his configs (which should be set at the begining of the game) or chatting away for some damn reason, is time well spent. At worst they will respawn closer to their base and farther from yours, at best they will do that and give you a useful gun or ammo.

 

My favorite saying for chatters or people who chitchat too much when I kill them is "Stop chatting and play!! This is a game, not a skin for AOL instant messenger!!"

 

This is pretty much if you are in a clan competition, tournament or a server that takes winning seriously. If you are just floating ctf servers for fun, then it does not matter so much and I will probably leave chatters/afk's alone, if they were not previously being irritating. On the flip side, if you are killed while chatting on a normal fun/non-competition server, then why even GET mad in the first place? It does not matter. It's just a game.

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Go get em Aoshi ;)

 

On a side not I didn't read enough to see that people were bitching about chat kills too. Chatters get in the way ALL the time on ctf how many times have you been rushing the the flag turn a corner and get stuck because a teamate is chatting. I usually don't really care if someone chat kills me i either stop chatting and kill the person or let them kill me. One of the funnier things is seeing newbs get the flag and start chatting that get mad at you for killing them.

Anyway not like it matters this is just the n00b dueler message board or something. HOPEFULLY Raven isn't dumb enough to play momma and let the kids have their way because they're crying.

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In response to Bf Hoby's comments that we are all noobs for not using or liking suicide. It's the same thing with the float from 1.03. Sure it helps your game to keep from getting push off a ledge by using float but is that what the designers had intended when they made the game, no. So they took it out in 1.04 now the worst flaw remaining is left to be fixed (although it probably won't because their not making patches anymore but non-the-less it's a flaw in the game that "non-skilled players and clans use." I can play vs. your clan and every time initiate a choke and immediately they will suicide. No absorb no push or pull just suicide. I have single handedly shut down your guys just pretending to fight to get them to suicide. I've beaten your boys on countless nights by doing just that. So if you noobs are ever on Bf Carnage just pretend to fight them and watch them suicide.

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The funniest thing to do to these certain bad clanners who thinks their good because a better clan quit is to go on Bf Carnage and start going after the Bf boys. Once they start going into the negatives on scoring because of suicides it's fun to see how low they will let their score get before they leave. Sure Bf has some genuienly good players but let me tell you it's defenately not the one trying to keep his suicide so he can put good players down and pretend he's good. "Waaaah I'm going to kill myself because I can't compete, then claim that it helps me win when it does no such thing. Waaaaah." said Bf Hoby.

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Well JA whoeveryouare.... if you are such a bad a$$, then go on and challenge BF to a match... right now they are #1 on the TWL ladder... round up all of your other bada$$e$ in your "clan" and go get them... take that #1 spot from them (its theirs until some bada$$ like you takes it from them, no matter how they went from 2 to 1).... and btw, Hoby has only banned one idiot from the BF server since its been open for play... he and Flash are not the type to ban folk easily, so you can drop all of the BS about not wanting to play under your clan name... and winning in a pub server means jack $hit... big deal even if you did win 98 out of 100 (btw, BS).. where is your clan ranked on ANY CTF ladder?.... didn't think so.. so until you show us something "pub master", plz stfu and stfd

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Originally posted by [JA] Silver

now the worst flaw remaining is left to be fixed (although it probably won't because their not making patches anymore but non-the-less it's a flaw in the game that "non-skilled players and clans use." I can play vs. your clan and every time initiate a choke and immediately they will suicide. No absorb no push or pull just suicide. I have single handedly shut down your guys just pretending to fight to get them to suicide. I've beaten your boys on countless nights by doing just that. So if you noobs are ever on Bf Carnage just pretend to fight them and watch them suicide.

 

 

ROFL..... all bow down to the PubMaster... victor in 98 of 100 imaginary maps... singlehandedly showing what a n00b he is with comments like that

 

can't wait until you challenge them... would love to see if you can back up what you say,PubMaster

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hehe Hoby is complaining about us complaining on these n00b boards and he has taken up almost a whole page with the same crap every reply. Oh and btw. You said that you can counter speed+rage using pull.... this tells me that you havent played on maps such as Yavin and Imperial IE. No drop.

 

I play on a CTF Saber only server. Try stopping one of those guys then. it is a challenge... not just get flachete (sp) and hold fire down. lol. If there was a CTF Saber only ladder we would join it but there isnt. there are only Failed Quaker Laders. (As I like to call them) :)

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In all honesty it doesn't consern me with what you think of my clan his clan because the main argument made here are by those not affiliated with clans in anyway. What these guys want is to have fun and get the "sense" of how they are improving by the frequency by which that 3 second message flashes up saying they just dispatched someone. When they don't see that because players suicide then why would they have a sense of fun, a sense of accomplishment or a sense of definative improvement. Clan matches allow suicides, but that is not really what I am against. What I'm against is these clanners using the same tatics that might or might not work to them in a public server with people who may only be there for the points because seeing their names first above all others (even on the losing side is fun). You want to suicide during a clan match, more power to you. Just don't do it to the everyday guys, like those arguing here who just want to have some fun. Ronin, I'm not the best but I am damn good compaired to most so please don't take out your fealings of jealousy on me. Most of the Bf boys just plain and simple don't like me and yes one of their admins has threatend me with a ban if he sees me. Whether or not you believe I have won the games that I have won also matters little to me. I didn't come here to trade insult with a kid who doesn't know the facts so study up Ronin before you shoot your mouth off. Sheesh, a guy tries to have a civil argument and the snot-nose-kids come out of the wood-work.

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hello this is zach aka DSbr-react. i seriously can't believe the amount of ****ing retarded newbies this community has. listen up idiots, ALL OF THE TOP JK2 CLANS USE THE SELF KILL BIND IN GAME PLAY. This is a tactic that was created by DSbr and YES it helps you win games. Its not just to be annoying as some of you ignorant morons think. Here is a good quote from Jbone earlier in this thread: "Anyone unwilling to fully and legally utilize the tools available to them is going to lose bigtime.". yes that is correct. the self kill bind is part of the game, it was intentionally programmed in, and it is NOT cheating.

 

haha here is another good quote by Jbone. i keep editing my posts to add these in: "If you get easily frustrated by people correctly using aspects of the game as designed, then you're the one with the problem - not the people using the feature.".

 

The main reason to self kill is so you can re-spawn with full force. There are also many other little reasons. I will now list a few to help the retarded jk2 community learn. SO PAY ATTENTION NOW STUPID HORDE OF NEWBIES. THIS IS A GOD LIKE DSBR TALKING. WE WERE THE #1 UNDEFEATED JK2 CLAN FOR A REASON.

 

- say you have the flag and you are about to capture it. pull out a good gun like golan or rocket launcher and self kill as you cap. WOW NOW YOUR FLAG D HAS MORE GUNS/AMMO AND YOU SPAWN WITH FULL FORCE.

 

- if you're falling in a pit you obviously self kill to save time. WAH ITS NOT HONORABLE JEDI COMBAT. god shutup starwars nerds.

 

- if your dark rage runs out and you are in that slow drunken state. there's obviously no point to walk around like that for like 10 seconds. simply self kill and rage it up again.

 

- if you're playing fag d and you're out of position.. self kill until you spawn back in the base. YOU GET FULL FORCE TOO!

 

- if you're chasing the enemy flag carrier and you're low on ammo/force. why chase him any longer in this weak state.. you're chances of killing him are next to nothing. SELF KILL, GET FULL FORCE, GATHER AMMO AND TRY AGAIN.

 

I'm sure there are many more little reasons to self kill but I've listed a few of the more commonly used ones. Some people will learn from this post, but I'm sure the majority of fat starwars nerds will continue crying to raven until a new PR comes out to fix this.

 

Also I think Hoby mentioned this earlier.. go to http://www.teamwarfare.com. this is the #1 jk2 ladder where all the top jk2 ctf teams compete. EVERY TEAM THERE USES THIS TACTIC. go make a post on the teamwarfare forum about this and you will get ridiculed for the true newbie and starwars nerd that you are. And remember, this advice is coming from DSbr: the best clan ever to play jk2. we held the #1 rungs and were UNDEFEATED on all twl ladders including TDM NF, TDM FF, CTF FF. We were also undefeated in CAL match play.

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wow, what a load of BS.

 

Every game type other than CTF - suicide is lame

 

CTF - It's not a cheat, it may be 'dishonarable' to all you honorable sabar mastars but it's a sound tactic. Some of the pits in CTF levels take far too long to kill the faller, self killing balances it out. I think the main problem is that there would be no way of regulating it unless there was a new patch/mod. I use /kill in CTF games, but if a patch came out with a spawn delay I wouldnt mind. Both sides would be forced to follow the rule which would be ok imo.

 

As for people saying 'suiciders' are sad.. I think the sadder people are those who are upset about not getting a high score in a CTF game. :/

 

theres never going to be agreement here unless a patch is released, so ppl who dislike suicide dont play in the ladder or on top ladder teams servers. On pubs that are not owned by clans (barrysworld, jolt etc.) maybe suicide should be mutually agreed to be not used.

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here is another good quote by Hoby:

 

"Look for any demos made by DSBr.. Yes these guys sucked with smack talk and all, but they have the best strats around and their defense is next to impossible to cap against."

 

That is correct. if you would like to get good at jk2 go to http://www.cached.net and download some dsbr demos. We set the standards and invented how competitive jk2 is played today. And yes we created the self kill tactic. So go download some demos and learn to play from your gods.

 

DSbr-zach

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Originally posted by [JA] Silver

In all honesty it doesn't consern me with what you think of my clan his clan because the main argument made here are by those not affiliated with clans in anyway. What these guys want is to have fun and get the "sense" of how they are improving by the frequency by which that 3 second message flashes up saying they just dispatched someone. When they don't see that because players suicide then why would they have a sense of fun, a sense of accomplishment or a sense of definative improvement. Clan matches allow suicides, but that is not really what I am against. What I'm against is these clanners using the same tatics that might or might not work to them in a public server with people who may only be there for the points because seeing their names first above all others (even on the losing side is fun). You want to suicide during a clan match, more power to you. Just don't do it to the everyday guys, like those arguing here who just want to have some fun. Ronin, I'm not the best but I am damn good compaired to most so please don't take out your fealings of jealousy on me. Most of the Bf boys just plain and simple don't like me and yes one of their admins has threatend me with a ban if he sees me. Whether or not you believe I have won the games that I have won also matters little to me. I didn't come here to trade insult with a kid who doesn't know the facts so study up Ronin before you shoot your mouth off. Sheesh, a guy tries to have a civil argument and the snot-nose-kids come out of the wood-work.

 

ok, 1st, you have no clue as to I am, what I do, nor my age...think what you want to, dont give a $hit either way

 

2nd why would I be jealous of you?.... what could you have that I could possibly want? If you think that by stating that you won 98 out of 100 maps on BF's server (btw, BS) that I am jealous, then you are wrong PubMaster.. like I said earlier, pub scores do not matter to me, or most of the CTF clan community.. I can go play with folk who have never played before and beat them all day long.. what did I show by that?.. not a thing...you have nothing that I want

 

3rd I play in the BF server... under my name, what name do you play under?.. go ahead and tell us, then change the alias that you use... we can see who the PubMaster has been playing as.. no harm in changing your alias is there?

 

4th BF has some really good folk playing for them... I play with them enough to know that they do not act like a$$e$ in their server, and if they "do not like you" then there must be a reason as to why, if that is the case at all. Who is the mystery admin who said they would ban you, and what prompted him to say that?

 

5th.. I really do not care if someone gets to feel the warm fuzzy feeling or not... if their sense of accomplishment comes from seeing that message, and they can't get their fuzzy from seeing that someone has killed themselves from their actions and piece it together, oh well... their self esteem problem

 

6th plz don't give me the "im just a honest guy having a civil argument" crap... you decided to start flaming BF, who are a good clan made up of good folk, so suck it up, because it going to get a helluva lot worse soon PubMaster... I am actually one of the quieter folk who play... I do not flame on forum boards, and I haven't really flamed you... but I'm sure as soon as some of the "more outspoken" members of the clan community wake up and see your crap, this will pale in comparison

 

7th.. Shoot my mouth about what? Don't know the facts about what? and what should I study PubMaster?.. I'd look up your name on the server stats, but I can't because you hide behind an alias when you play... so give us something that we can "study" before you shoot your mouth off

 

last, but definatly not least... PubMaster, you are the one who stated he owned BF, so either challenge them or stfu.. and plz do not hide behind the "well its not about clans" line either... it is now, put up or shut up, I am calling your bluff

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Originally posted by Ronin_Sith

 

 

6th plz don't give me the "im just a honest guy having a civil argument" crap... you decided to start flaming BF, who are a good clan made up of good folk, so suck it up, because it going to get a helluva lot worse soon PubMaster... I am actually one of the quieter folk who play... I do not flame on forum boards, and I haven't really flamed you... but I'm sure as soon as some of the "more outspoken" members of the clan community wake up and see your crap, this will pale in comparison

 

 

looks like they are up early.. GL PubMaster, you will need it

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