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Concusion Rifle (spoilers)


michael_collins

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Originally posted by michael_collins

The concussion rifle in DF and JK are practically two differnet guns, in DF they pretty much focus in on enemies and engulf them in blue flame, while in JK they fire somewhat similar to the Merrson missle in JO, how will the mod team address this ?

 

answer: we'll address it as best we can ;-)

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They're both the same excluding the whole secondary fire thing. DF's however fires different amounts of shots withg auto aim on. Say there are stormies 50 yards apart and you fire straight down the middle, they'll roast in their own pool of blue fire!

With autoaim off in JK, it only produces one pool of fire.

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Originally posted by Emon

All that would work except for the fact that you CAN'T code. AT ALL.

 

Emon, we have coders who are adapting the WLS code to function as the SP game code - we can then bring our MOD into the game. They will be introducing AI etc.. into the code.

 

Soon enough we will have a proper SP mod for JKII that gives us freedom within the source code etc...

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Originally posted by The_One

 

Emon, we have coders who are adapting the WLS code to function as the SP game code - we can then bring our MOD into the game. They will be introducing AI etc.. into the code.

 

Soon enough we will have a proper SP mod for JKII that gives us freedom within the source code etc...

 

You cannot adopt the WLS MP code for SP. You do not have the sourcecode for singleplayer JO, and you can't just throw in some WLS MP code, overwrite the old DLL and hope that there's some divine intervention and it happens to work. The WLS code has absolutly nothing to do with singleplayer, and cannot be adopted, ever. Sorry guys, you just can't do it, it's impossible. As much as I'd like it to work, it won't.

 

And that statement was meant for everyone, in that no one is able to code since we CAN'T code for SP. We've got ICARUS that we can use for puzzles and cutscene, but outside of those ext_data files, we cannot do any modding, not in the sense you can for MP. We can never change the way the guns function, we can't code new AI, we can't make adjustments to the saber system, we can't even adjust the accuracy of the guns!

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Im willing to forgive the limitations of the existing code, go out on a limb thats hairfine and say that regardless of coding problems and issues, and with the demo being a taste of things to come, that even with the problems Emon has raised, Darth's team can pull this off, and besides, coding limitations was not the reason i started this thread. The reason i started it was to find out (from one of the team members point of view, since theyre making this mod, and thou are'nt) which of the two firing styles (Jedi Knight and Dark Forces) the concussion rifle will resemble.

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The problems I pointed out make it absolutly IMPOSSIBLE to do any kind of REAL weapon coding for JO SP. You can change the way the weapons look and sound, and change a LITTLE of their functionality. You can change the fire rate and ammo, that sort of thing. If you just reskin the Merr-Sonn, primary fire could look like JK's concussion rifle, but secondary fire would still be seeking.

 

The best possibly solution is to replace the weapons with the other weapons, like the things for the AT-ST and emplaced gun. Perhaps you could edit the menu files so that hitting 9 or whatever gives you that TIE-Fighter weapon, which you could maybe slightly modify to be like the JK conc. I dunno, just an idea.

 

With some cheap hacks like that you could pull off maybe a JK style concussion rifle, MAYBE. But beyond a few cheap hacks and tricks, you're kinda screwed for coding.

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I don't know if you missed this Emon, but the full version of the Dark Forces MOD is technicallyl a Multi-Player game. It will use jk2mp.exe, and an adapted WLS Coop code for it's base. We aren't modifying the SP game any further now that the demo is out.

 

The demo was done in SP as a proof of concept, and to see how much interest it generated. Now that it's out, I'm already working on moving all the resources into the format required for MP and the code team is DIFFing the original MP source and Wired Lamp's mod. We are also borrrowing from the JetPack source.

 

cheers!

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Originally posted by Geoffrey S

I was under the impression that the co-op mod failed mainly because the WLS coding couldn't support the amount of entities needed for a SP level. And DF contains more enemies/doors than the average JO level.

 

Yes, but we have a way round that. We will be using spawn triggers at certain points in the map, which will keep the entity numbers right down. WLS couldn't do this with the SP maps as they don't have the actual .map files for the SP levels. So, any user-made level has an advantage over WLS.

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the .map files are not in the pk3 files (except for a couple samples like Kejim Post). That's the problem, without being able to edit the original maps they couldn't make it work.

 

As Rich pointed out, since we are starting from scratch, we can design our maps with those limits in mind.

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this is where we ask ourselves the same question as before, why didn't they put deadly sight in Jedi Outcast... or a multip player hitting offensive type force/weapon,

 

the best thing to edit here in my opinion would be team heal or team drain which effect more than one target like the old concussion rifle in DF

 

any thoughts?

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Originally posted by The_One

Yes, but we have a way round that. We will be using spawn triggers at certain points in the map, which will keep the entity numbers right down.

 

That's impossible. The problem lies with the func_entities. You can only have 256 func_doors, func_rotatings, func_plats, func_statics, etc. And there is NO way around this. You cannot create and remove these type of entities with triggers. The average DF level had a lot more than 256.

 

There's also the problem of the MP code being simply buggy beyond all hell, a lot of which you aren't able to fix without the full engine source code. Half the shader stuff doesn't work, half the entities don't work right, func_breakables only break into rock (although you may be able to fix this)!

 

Your AI is also going to be limited as a result. The AI used in SP is very complex, there are tons of factors that effect the reactions of the NPCs. And for scripting, how are you going to manage to code ICARUS into MP, if it's even possible? Having to code a bunch of entities for each objective is going to suck, A LOT...

 

And all this just so you can make a few new weapons? It's really not worth it.

 

 

Sorry if I sound negative, but I'm just being realistic. I also don't want to see a great mod go down the tubes because all the modifications they wanted to do to make MP like SP turned out to be either not possible or extremely inefficient.

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@Emon:

ok, I know this is not a full reply to you answer but I asked TheSnerd (maker of the Coop code) about this some time ago:

 

 

I´ve heard that a map that uses your code is limited to 256 models.

 

It´s very important for me to know if you really meant "models" or all

entities in the level (e.g. info_player_start, light entities, triggers

etc.) !?

 

Answer:

yes, models - why would I have meant entities?
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