JediNyt Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Blowing up innocents is not a good thing. Sure have bombs on backup. They should use the new Predator drone. Fly high above with the state-of-the-art targeting systems and drop one bomb right on his fat head. And of course his buddies as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHobGoblin Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 EXACTLY MY FRIEND THANK YOU We have to end this now. He is no match for U.S. OF A Once this war is over then the victems of 9/11 will be avenged. We can't just sit here. Our President has helped us get closer now there is a wall. It can be brought down but first we must cut the ropes that hold it in place. see what I'm saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Originally posted by -s/<itzo- If the US don't do nothing now they will regret it in the future. If no actions are taken i think the terrorists will find them vulnerable and commit another haynous act. Our actions are what CAUSE terrorists. They lash out at us because we are bullies, because we bomb them, kill their leaders, interfere when it is none of our business, kill their civilians, their mothers, fathers, sisters brothers, friends, lovers. They have felt for their ENTIRE lives the way we have felt since 9-11. They are protecting themselves in the only way they have available. War is never the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt-- Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Originally posted by ET Warrior Our actions are what CAUSE terrorists. They lash out at us because we are bullies, because we bomb them, kill their leaders, interfere when it is none of our business, kill their civilians, their mothers, fathers, sisters brothers, friends, lovers. They have felt for their ENTIRE lives the way we have felt since 9-11. They are protecting themselves in the only way they have available. War is never the answer. We aren't interfering, and it is our business. Iraq signed a treaty...they are not permitted to develop weapons of mass destruction. If the U.N. doesn't take action and a more direct action needs to be taken, so be it. It's for the good of our nation's, and the rest of the world's, security. Slightly offtopic: If we're attacking Iraq for oil, why are we turning our attention to North Korea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWhiteRaider Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 The EPA is right. We must advance, be more efficient, make better and cleaner energy. That is only 10% of the ways oil is used. In fact with out it the U.S. economy would be down and out. And if the U.S. goes down it will take Japan with it. And without Japan, China would go down too. It would be a huge chain reaction basicly destroying almost all of the economies. 60 years ago the different markets were not tangled like they are today. War is never the answer. Sadly that is not always true. "Sometimes to get peace you must be ready for war. " -Ronald Regan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediNyt Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Slightly offtopic: If we're attacking Iraq for oil, why are we turning our attention to North Korea? To get them commie bastards! As Im sure Bush would love to say. Also for popularity and to make people think that its not just about oil. But still North Korea is a potential threat and should be dealt with properly...NOT by bombing mind you. Thats a last resort.That is only 10% of the ways oil is used. In fact with out it the U.S. economy would be down and out. And if the U.S. goes down it will take Japan with it. And without Japan, China would go down too. It would be a huge chain reaction basicly destroying almost all of the economies. 60 years ago the different markets were not tangled like they are today. Closed minded you are. On the long run you must concentrate. Think you must about gradual but significant steps until it is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Originally posted by TheHobGoblin IT'S OBVIOUS He has weapons that are sittin their asses in thye middle of nowhere. Evidence please. When we destroy Sadam they will be cheering at games, women will wear the close of the women in other countries, They can have the most important rite, CHOICE. And what makes you think they all hate their leader? War is not the solution to stop war. As Jimmy Carter, one of the good US presidents through history, said: "War may sometimes be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary, it is always an evil, never a good." Our actions are what CAUSE terrorists. They lash out at us because we are bullies, because we bomb them, kill their leaders, interfere when it is none of our business, kill their civilians, their mothers, fathers, sisters brothers, friends, lovers. Well said! Do you think they care about the needs of other people. They just want to try (which they won't) overcome one of the most powerful countries in the world. Nobody likes those countries. But understand that if Bush continues to do what he does, nobody will like US either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Our actions are what CAUSE terrorists. They lash out at us because we are bullies, because we bomb them, kill their leaders, interfere when it is none of our business, kill their civilians, their mothers, fathers, sisters brothers, friends, lovers. Mmmm, I dont know about this... in that Al-Qaeda training manual I read, it really only pointed out the fact that we're not Muslims. Heck, they even called for the death of arab leaders, because they were working with non-Muslims. And even if we did cause it (which I dont think we did), then ok, we were wrong to do it. But dont we have the right to defend ourselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Originally posted by JediNyt But still North Korea is a potential threat and should be dealt with properly Right. And so is Israel, because they're hiding nukes too. And France. And USA. All must be dealt with. Bush is a potential threat to the middle eastern culture. He must be dealt with properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHobGoblin Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 JM Qui-Gon Jinn Your request of edvidence. He didn't let us in after a while. *JUST ENOUGH TIME TO HIDE WEAPONS* If he had nothing to start with then what is there to hide. Not all of them hate Sadam. I'm basing that part on a documentry. It's a fact that our race and politcal affairs with a enemy has war somewhere in it. We can't be like the hippies saying peace all day. We have to stop the threat. Talking isn't helping. We have to use force (Not star wars force:rolleyes: ) Sometimes things can be dealth with talk but this isn't it. Why should Bush be stoped. He is doing what he can to stop these terroist. Everyone jumps on Bush just for protecting U.S.A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt-- Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 How many times must I say: We are after these countries(N. Korean, too) because they have violated treaties regarding the devlopment of nuclear weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHobGoblin Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Originally posted by matt-windu How many times must I say: We are after these countries(N. Korean, too) because they have violated treaties regarding the devlopment of nuclear weapons. Yea ket's not forget that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 Originally posted by JediNyt I say win the people of Irag over and protect them with overwhelming force. That's been kinda tried before. The new leaders turned out to be as big [insert degrading word in plural here] as Presidente Hussein. Last time I checked they were involved in bombing Tel Aviv from the inside (note that I do not find Israel to be a "good-guy" at all). Myself: I'm sort of inclined to support making an umbrella organisation that has total authority (based on Montesque's principles of course) to dispose of out-of-line governments, religious cults and other threats to the continued well-being of Humanity. Originally posted by JediNyt Bush wants to use nukes...go figure. That would be the most stupid act since... well since he refused to found stem cell research. If he did employ thermonuclear weaponry the UN would be forced into a reckoning with the US or lose what little face they have left (UN treaties ban the detonation of nuclear bombs in the athmosphere). No-one could possibly want this (save Osama, Saddam, ect.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-GONE Jinn Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 How many times must I say: We are after these countries(N. Korean, too) because they have violated treaties regarding the devlopment of nuclear weapons. Do America make weapons of mass destruction? I think they do. Have America signed a bloody treaty? I think not! Mr. High and Mighty President Bush has caused the world nothing but harm. He pulled America out of the Kyoto, he's running around causing war like crazy, and so on and on. Do you Americans have any particular claim on Iraq's oil? Do you own it or something? Or do you just steal it, and then decide that it is yours for real? In the rest of the world, Bush is known as the Cowboy president, he just wants war, war, war. It's pathetic, and it's even more tragic that England support him. France, for example is a mighty european that don't support Bush's wars. You'll remember that they didn't contribute ONE soldier to the Afghanistan tragedy. Didn't President Washington say that the U.S. should never get involved in foreign troubles, or somthing like that? I think that would be a very good idea! You stop meddling in other people's lives, and people will stop bombing your buildings! Every action requires a reaction, and every action has it's origin in another action. It's no coincident that those planes ran into WTC, it's because of your foreign politics. I'm not saying such an act is forgiveable, mind you, because it's not. I just don't understand why the USA should bully every other nation around? Is it fun? Does it make you feel powerful? Do you do it to compensate for something? How did the US get their position in the world? A united Europe must surely be as powerful? Why do America rule the world politics? They have a very powerful means of sanctions in the UN, even if they get votes against them, they just say "Hey, if you don'y go with us, we'll just pull outta Europe!" And then America has it's way. I don't understand it. Why can't the US just go back to their own affairs, if they want to? Why do we need them in Europe? Why can't you just cooperate peacefully with the rest of the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 Originally posted by ET Warrior Yet these things are denied to us simply because wealthy fuel companies purchase the patents to these ideas and then lock them up so nobody else can use them. This also happens in the medical field. [Good example was here. Left out due to consideration of [Force:Longpost]]..i know, that's kind of off topic Not at all off-topic in my book. Corporate rule has it's ups and downs. Intellectual property is a tricky issue: It is there to encourage research by private companies. Good. But it is fatally easy to abuse. Not good. Perhaps sale of patents should be outlawed, so that only those who invent the thing can claim patent rights... But I cannot possibly foresee the consequenses of such bans, so I'm probably just ranting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 Originally posted by TheHobGoblin JM Qui-Gon Jinn Your request of edvidence. He didn't let us in after a while. *JUST ENOUGH TIME TO HIDE WEAPONS* If he had nothing to start with then what is there to hide. Not all of them hate Sadam. I'm basing that part on a documentry. It's a fact that our race and politcal affairs with a enemy has war somewhere in it. We can't be like the hippies saying peace all day. We have to stop the threat. Talking isn't helping. We have to use force (Not star wars force:rolleyes: ) Sometimes things can be dealth with talk but this isn't it. Why should Bush be stoped. He is doing what he can to stop these terroist. Everyone jumps on Bush just for protecting U.S.A HobGoblin, the point is that war is a totally terrible thing, just ask someone who lived in Europe under WW2. War is the absolute last thing you should try to solve a problem with. But that is not the way of Bush obviously, since he prefers the good old texas-style "shoot first and ask later", he don't even wants to check if Saddam has chemical weapons at all before attacking, only the UN made sure of checking that. So how can you support such a war-loving guy? I mean, everyone should know that there are always ways to achive your goal without having to kill 50 000 innocent on the way. Though some people starts war over everything, for example starting civil war because they thought the tea was too expensive Also. I can say right away "Saddam does not have chemical weapons". This is not nessiserely true, but it is juridically true, 'Innocent until proven guilty', you must remember. And I am yet to see evidence for that Saddam has chemical and biological weapons, Bush says he has evidence, but if so, why won't he show it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 Originally posted by ET Warrior Our actions are what CAUSE terrorists. Nope. Religion is what causes terrorism. Think about it. Bush, Osama, IRA, KKK, and the rest of the gang. They'r all religious. And it's not a coincidence. Bush acts with a mandate from heaven: He's christian, therefore he's a good guy, therefore he can do whatever he wants. Osama: Religion is obviously the primary cause of his madness. I could in fact argue that religion is his madness. IRA (and the other guys in that theatre, 'cause the Protestant side of that conflict is no better. At all): The ONLY reason why that conflict hasn't died out centuries ago is that religion creates an artificial barrier that hindered assimilation of the Scottish immigrants (who by the way were shipped over there as the main part of an English crusade). KKK: See Osama. Originally posted by ET Warrior War is never the answer. War did do a remarkable job of curing the world of Hitler and his gang (sure the postwar effort is even more important, but to be "post"war...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 Originally posted by TheWhiteRaider That is only 10% of the ways oil is used. Boy do I hate when it is not clear where a number comes from. 10 percent of the number of uses for oil, or 10% of the oil usage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 Originally posted by Qui-GONE Jinn the Afghanistan tragedy. What tragedy? Please enlighten me. As I heard the story we cut out a piece of cancer by removing the incureably religious Taleban regime, and replacing it with something perhaps as incureably religious, but easier to control. As a note on the side: As some of you may have guessed I do not consider priests to be civilians, just like I don't consider Mafia Dons or Army Generals to be civilians. Not getting your hands dirty doesn't mean that you aren't responsible (not that this means that people should go around killing Mafia Dons, Priests or Generals out-of-hand. That's Vigilante, and that's illegal). EDIT: I like to term the American President "Presidente", Tropico-style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediNyt Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 Btw ShadowTemplar you should just press the edit button if you want to add stuff to a post. You shouldnt triple post. This is a very good discussion so far. No flames just good constructive debates. Gj. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted December 14, 2002 Author Share Posted December 14, 2002 Originally posted by Qui-GONE Jinn Do America make weapons of mass destruction? I think they do. Have America signed a bloody treaty? I think not! Mr. High and Mighty President Bush has caused the world nothing but harm. He pulled America out of the Kyoto, he's running around causing war like crazy, and so on and on. Do you Americans have any particular claim on Iraq's oil? Do you own it or something? Or do you just steal it, and then decide that it is yours for real? In the rest of the world, Bush is known as the Cowboy president, he just wants war, war, war. It's pathetic, and it's even more tragic that England support him. France, for example is a mighty european that don't support Bush's wars. You'll remember that they didn't contribute ONE soldier to the Afghanistan tragedy. Bush has not started any wars... Osama Bin Laden STARTED the war by attacking the United States. Bush just finished it off. Originally posted by Qui-GONE Jinn I just don't understand why the USA should bully every other nation around? Is it fun? Does it make you feel powerful? Do you do it to compensate for something? How did the US get their position in the world? A united Europe must surely be as powerful? Why do America rule the world politics? They have a very powerful means of sanctions in the UN, even if they get votes against them, they just say "Hey, if you don'y go with us, we'll just pull outta Europe!" And then America has it's way. I don't understand it. Why can't the US just go back to their own affairs, if they want to? Why do we need them in Europe? Why can't you just cooperate peacefully with the rest of the world? The US is not "bullying" around every other country. As stated in previous posts, the US is getting involved with N Korea and Iraq because they VIOLATED the treaties in which they agreed not to make any weapons of mass destruction. President Bush is doing what he feels is right and, frankly, I agree with him. He has not fired one shot at Iraq and none at Korea. The only reason he is massing the US forces is because he wants to be prepared in case Iraq or Korea comes out fireing everything they have at Europe and America. Notice how Bush is trying to settle the Korea and Iraq issues with WORDS not war. He has tried to negotiate with them and if they refuse, which N. Korea pretty much has and Iraq will probably do considering they are just trying to bog down the UN and US intelligence with useless info, Anyway, if the two countries refuse and slam all the doors, THEY have started the war. Not with a gunshot but with a refusal to the proposal of peace. Bush will only finish the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 well put Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediNyt Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 Bush did NOT finish the war in Afghanistan. He did exactly what his daddy did to Saddam. Beat the **** outa Osama and say Dont do it again!. No one knows where Osama is or if hes alive. Just like in Desert Storm. He said hed get rid of Bin Ladden and Al Quaeda (sp) and he didnt. Afghanistan has been pretty much forgotten it seems. Bush decided to just leave without finishing and get everyone excited again with another potential war. Americans are so shallow! I would know, I live there! When that action dies down regardless of what state the job is in JUMP to the next bad guy and beat the **** outa him again! And over and over and over again! Never finishing, never good results. Bomb bomb bomb and you think its done... . Al Quaeda is not gone. Theyre mad! And wanna get back at us! Theyve already shown that by the huge bomb in Indonesia. They got set back alot by the war with the US and like Hussien did after Desert Storm will be back and strong in a few years. Why? Cause people like the Bushies dont like to take responsibilities after blowing **** up! Theyre cowboys! Shoot first, shoot somemore and mabye then ask a question or 2. But never finish the job and rebuild and make things right again. The UN and people like Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell are the only ones keeping Bush from jumping on his horse with his six shooters and yelling Yeeehaaw! Lets shoot us some sand ******s!<---Forgive the expression but its true what rednecks are calling Arabs. Let the UN make more decissions on the fate of the world. The US thinks its the cop of the world and can bully if they want. Fortunately the UN stops most of that. Think! Its patriotic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHobGoblin Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 JM Qui-Gon Jinn. Innocent until Proven guilty is true but there is enough edvidence BY COMMON SENSE to prove him guilty. Why didn't he let the UN in before. Like after a few weaks or a month I believe he was saying no then he lets them in. I support a president who knows what he is doing, thats bush. He doesn't shoot first ask later. He anilizes the question tries to solve it. If war is the only answer he uses it. If it was Gore you wouldn't have been jumping on him. But it's just being childess to always say he is doing a bad job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWhiteRaider Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 10 percent of the number of uses for oil, or 10% of the oil usage? 10% percent of the number of uses for oil. Oil is used for more than just burning.(I am putting together a complete list.) . Let the UN make more decissions on the fate of the world. The US thinks its the cop of the world and can bully if they want. Fortunately the UN stops most of that. To tell you the truth. The U.N. could not punch its way out of a paper bag without the U.S. They use the U.S. to do all of their dirty work. And without the U.S. the U.N. is worth as much as a 1/1,000,000 of a penny. If the U.S. wanted to it could just throw out the U.N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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