swphreak Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 I like that list, but I think the Smuggler's Union ad the Hutt Cartell would be the same. And... I could careless about the ewoks being a civ. U wanna play as them. Go make a map and add in a bunch of ewoks and storm troops and kick their butts. About the NR and ER, I think it would be cool to have them, but they would be really close to the Rebs and Emps. I'd take one or the other. And the Yuuzhan Vong a civ. Yes. That's all I'm gonna say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 SWPhreak: The Union and the Cartel would only be the same in that their military forces are pretty random and varied (because so many different people are in them). In other respects, I'd hope for them to be quite the opposite, seeing as in GB2 they'd be arch-enemies. I've pointed this out in several other threads, but I'll say it again. The NR and IR have the potential to be extremely different to the Rebels and the Empire. There's heaps of material on them in the post-Endor EU, and it's easy to make their civ strengths quite different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthfergie Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Originally posted by Crazy_dog no.3 made up some TOTALLY contradictory crap about R2 and 3PO and made all the "background characters" equal to Han and Vader! 1. I guess you're refering to the Droids comic book series...just to let you know that was all fun and games. People wanted to use the droids in a comedy and did. It is not what I'd classify as the concrete EU. Just satirical. 2. No characters have ever equaled Han in whit. In EU he is a central character to the humor of the whole thing...Han is an ex-smuggler married to a princess/ex-Senator/ex-chief of state...it makes for some of the best charcter developent in all of EU. As for Vader...has he really been in EU much? No. Except for books set durring the trilogy. The Sith that are brought in don't match Vader at all. It's so hard to match that intensity that imbodies Darth Vader. I just don't see what you mean by background chracters being equal unless you want to call Boba Fett a background character...he's the only one ever used to equalize the both of them...and only against Vader in a non-concrete comic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Originally posted by darthfergie 2. No characters have ever equaled Han in whit. In EU he is a central character to the humor of the whole thing...Han is an ex-smuggler married to a princess/ex-Senator/ex-chief of state...it makes for some of the best charcter developent in all of EU. As for Vader...has he really been in EU much? No. Except for books set during the trilogy. The Sith that are brought in don't match Vader at all. It's so hard to match that intensity that imbodies Darth Vader. I just don't see what you mean by background chracters being equal unless you want to call Boba Fett a background character...he's the only one ever used to equalize the both of them...and only against Vader in a non-concrete comic. No I mean there are like whole books covering 2 of the bounty hunters seen for only about 5 mns in ESB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 No I mean there are like whole books covering 2 of the bounty hunters seen for only about 5 mns in ESB. Well, Boba Fett has like 3 books. Everyone loves Boba Fett. Now back on topic ------------------------------- I can see a little bit of difference between the Rebs and NR. New Air units and other units. Maybe different workers, and they would defeinatley have high Jedi. The Emp and IR would be a lil diferent too, but I dont seee that much. They would still have the TIEs, and maybe they could have the Preybirds as a bonus like the rebels have the A-Wing. The Spider Walker would be a new mech unit. And Sith for them would be kinda low. Depending on the Civ limit, I'd take the NR and IR over the Rebs and Emps. And they better add the Yuuzhan Vong. The Shamed Ones will be the workers. The Warrior Caste will be the troopers, and many of the land creatures in the books can be mechs. Air will be a piece of cake. And for the Air Cruiser they could use the Gungan's AC and get rid of the seaweed dangling down from it and change the color. And of course they would be strong against jedi, but they wont have any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Fett has a larger role than all the bounty hunters from ESB put together, that's way it's a little more acceptible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthfergie Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 The only reason Fett has a bigger role is because of his post death return in EU. Now thanks to his huge popularity in EU, he's in Ep II. Remember...Fett is still dead in the "cannon." And by the way...the only book that covers one bounty hunter exclusivly is just the Bounty Hunter Wars in which Fett was featured. Now there are short stories that were put in collections with various other bounty hunters featured...but as for their own novel...it hasn't happened for any bounty hunter except Fett. As for having Rebs, Imps, NR, AND the Remnant...it's overkill...get rid of NR and IR...put in Hapans. And anyway out of dreamland...back to reality. 1. rebels 2. Old Republic 3. Empire 4. Confederacy *wishful thinking* 5. Yuuzhan Vong 6. Chiss 7. Hapan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Originally posted by darthfergie The only reason Fett has a bigger role is because of his post death return in EU. Now thanks to his huge popularity in EU, he's in Ep II. Remember...Fett is still dead in the "cannon." And by the way...the only book that covers one bounty hunter exclusivly is just the Bounty Hunter Wars in which Fett was featured. Now there are short stories that were put in collections with various other bounty hunters featured...but as for their own novel...it hasn't happened for any bounty hunter except Fett. Gah who u cares!? U know what I mean! All those stories covering minor characters like IG-88 and such. Originally posted by darthfergie And anyway out of dreamland...back to reality. 1. rebels 2. Old Republic 3. Empire 4. Confederacy *wishful thinking* 5. Yuuzhan Vong 6. Chiss 7. Hapan 1) Definetely 2) Republic? OK 3) Definetely 4) Confederacy? OK - Merged with TF? WHAT THE HELL ARE U THINKING?! TF DID NOT JOIN WITH THEM AT THE END OF AOTC!!!!! They fought alongside each other, there were battle droids amongst Geonosian Sonic Blasters, but the British and French fought alongside each other in The Battle Of The Somme. Britian and France are not one country (to my knowledge anyway ) 5) Vong- EU civ. Like 30 or something years after ROTJ. Star Wars should have concluded with "and they lived happy ever after" with the Thrawn trilogy wich is OK. If they become a good option after all others are exhuasted, then Mon Cals and Hutt Cartel take priority. 6) Chiss- EU civ. U throw away all the more reasonable and canon civs and replace them with barely known civs. This game ain't gonna sell. U are more insane than CorranSec. 7) Hapans? U throw away all the more reasonable and canon civs and replace them with barely known civs Who are they anyway? I consider myself a moderate SW fan (not MovieGoer Joe but not fanatic), and if moderate fans don't know what it is then most gamers wouldn't know what it is and niether do casual fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 SWPhreak- Let me illuminate precisely how they would differ. It's a basic difference in what they are. The Rebels are an underground movement which uses hit-and-run tactics and small, mobile forces. The New Republic is the established government with a huge amount of forces at their disposal and thus far more solid military power. The Empire is an established government with a huge amount of brute force (ie big crushy mech assaults). The Remnant is, well, a remnant- a mere shadow of the former Empire's strength, having far less pure power, and basically using tactics similar to the Rebels. There are plenty of different units. You even pointed out the Preybirds yourself. With all the material in EU, as well as good imaginations, the civs will be fine. Fergie- It's not overkill. See above. Why would you choose a little-known civ (Hapans) with not nearly as much source material or importance as the NR or IR instead of the NR or IR? About your civ list: 1. Yes. 2. Yes. But doesn't that suggest there will be a New Republic? 3. Yes. 4. Yes. *Where are the rest of the important canon civs?* 5. Yes, but where are they without the NR? 6. No. Not nearly as prominent or important as plenty of others. Even less so than the Hapans. 7. No. See above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Im agreeing with Crazy dog here. It is obvious you guys dont understand that about 70% of the potential customers can only identify the major characters and understand the major forces. They think EU is a group of pissant Europeans and think Vongs are V shaped thongs. They will not buy the game that has Chiss or Smugglers Union or Vong or Black Sun or Trandoshans or Twileks or anything like that. They can, however, easily recall what a Wookie looks like, because Chewie was in their face for three movies. They understand the TF and the Confeds, and, unlike a handful of forumers, understand that they are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Exactly! but...don't start talking about thongs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Sith, Luke's dad: Did anyone suggest that the TF would be removed? No. Did anyone suggest that the Confeds would be removed? No. I want all the major movie civs in there. I'm also not against the Wookiees (if they can fit) but they don't matter nearly as much. Perhaps people won't buy a game that ONLY has EU. But this game has both. What's wrong with both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Or it will end up like the alien jedi thread:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 yeah...but it already has started and the plague is gonna infect this whole thread! yeah...thongs...we all like thongs...worn by three-headed monkeys...fighting Godzilla, a printing machine and a banana with his clones...or SE_Vader trying yo compare his ***** with mine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 I really don't want to think about a three-headed (and assumably three-*****ed) monkey wearing a V-shaped thong. And I definitely do not want to think about you and Vader having little competitions. But the bananas and printers... I missed them. Bring them back! And while we're on the topic- Godzilla is on TV tonight. How weird is that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthfergie Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Gah who u cares!? U know what I mean! All those stories covering minor characters like IG-88 and such. no, I really don't. IG-88 has a short story or two about him in some collections, and maybe a comic or two, but no novel. You have no base for your arguement. 4) Confederacy? OK - Merged with TF? WHAT THE HELL ARE U THINKING?! TF DID NOT JOIN WITH THEM AT THE END OF AOTC!!!!! They fought alongside each other, there were battle droids amongst Geonosian Sonic Blasters, but the British and French fought alongside each other in The Battle Of The Somme. Britian and France are not one country (to my knowledge anyway ) okay...TF...fine with me...put them in there...but there arn't any Naboo so why care about the TF being seperate. 5) Vong- EU civ. Like 30 or something years after ROTJ. Star Wars should have concluded with "and they lived happy ever after" with the Thrawn trilogy wich is OK. If they become a good option after all others are exhuasted, then Mon Cals and Hutt Cartel take priority. ROTFL! Mon Cals! THAT'S JUST AS STUPID AS WOOKIES! As for Hutt Cartel, they are a viable civ because they do occupy an entire system and resist the vong in co-ordination with the New Republic (rebs), Remnant (imps), Hapan, and Chiss. 6) Chiss- EU civ. U throw away all the more reasonable and canon civs and replace them with barely known civs. This game ain't gonna sell. U are more insane than CorranSec. what? And you want wookies? besides...this is my game to make in my head...if I wanted to make the best game, this is my way...screw Ep I...it already has already been featured in GB...time to move on... Plus Ep I deals with a small planetary conflict...I mean this is on the galactic level. Ep I was a nothing...it just set up a few characters. ta-da. I just don't think Ep I is on the level with the Trilogy or Ep II...heck I think the trilogy and EU are on a pedistal by themselves...it's a bit radical...but oh well... 7) Hapans? Who are they anyway? I consider myself a moderate SW fan (not MovieGoer Joe but not fanatic), and if moderate fans don't know what it is then most gamers wouldn't know what it is and niether do casual fans. you don't read much EU do you? :\ Hapes is a system of 63 star systems, it was originally settled by a group of pirates called the Lorell Raiders, and was overrun by the Empire until Ta'a Chume ousted them. There were at least 119 known worlds within the Cluster's boundaries at the time of the New Republic's negotiations with Ta'a Chume. Following Prince Isolder's marriage to Teneniel Djo, twelve of these worlds aligned themselves directly with the New Republic. Although the rest remained part of the Hapes Consortium. The Hapan made their own technology and did not rely on outside help much at all. Ships such as the Hapan Battle Dragon and the Nova class Battle Cruiser and the Hapan Stinger became the basis for the military. The Hapan people are nearly isolated from the galaxy because of a large nebula and are very belligerent towards any outsiders. Another little fact about the Hapans is that women are the central basis of the government with men being subservient. The Hapans were first introduced in The Courtship of Princess Leia and have been seen in many novels since then and one is even a central character to EU. Teniel Ka is of Royal blood and is the heir(and later Queen) of Hapes, but she is also a Jedi and thanks to hatred among the Hapan of Jedi she becomes very alienated from them at an early age. To make a long story short...The Hapan are an established and independent government completely seperate from the Rebel Alliance/ New Republic. and I agree...there probably won't be any EU civs in there...but I'd much rather see the Vong/Chiss/Hapan in there than the Wookies or Ewoks!* But I can always hope that Gaber can pick up some experiance thanks to FoCom and GB...keyword hope :\ *notice I didn't say TF, Naboo, or Gungan...they are kind of essential civs...I don't like 'em...so I say screw 'em...but there is probably some nut out there who just loves playing as the Gungan, but other then that the only reason most of you are objecting them being removed is that they were in the movies...nobody likes them...but they were in the movies so we have to have them...yay...woops...a bit long for a footnote... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted January 12, 2003 Author Share Posted January 12, 2003 People would much rather play the Gungans, the Naboo and the Trade Federation than the Chiss. I can't believe I even need to say this. It's all well and good to have those civs as an addition to movie civs, but to not include movie civs is just silly. I truly feel sorry for the LucasArts RTS developers if they think adding EU civs will make their game a winner. It will be another failure of FoCom proportions and as such might give them such a blow as to end RTS development at LucasArts. I know they have the power to make a truly great Star Wars RTS, and believe me EU will not help them do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_dog no.3 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Fergie- OK, fine, but only when all other options have been exhuasted, so save it for like X-Pack no.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Fergie, the problem is that EU isnt something that LA embraces or the majority of the players know of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted January 13, 2003 Author Share Posted January 13, 2003 Thank the Force they don't embrace it... in fact I think they mostly make up their own EU, like in the Jedi Knight series. Heres the facts: A game based entirely on the movies -> lots of people buy A game based entirely on EU -> not many people will buy So why go in between? "We want to combine many sales with not very many sales to create... average sales!" I don't think so. Okay so my logic is a bit dodgy but that's how I feel anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Oh no, not again. I just posted a whole list of reasons in the Kaminoan thread as to why EU should be included, and now it seems I must do it again. Well... I might not have to. Vostok: No offense, but you're right- your logic is pretty dodgy. I don't think it'll exactly average out. Here's the real facts: An RTS game entirely based on the movies- This would probably be impossible. Even GB1 had to make up it's own campaigns. And... despite the fact that it has already been done, and it'll probably just be an excitingly enhanced version of GB1 (with solely movie units and campaigns, which will probably be quite bad) some people will indeed buy it. An RTS game entirely based on EU- Such a thing is one again probably not possible. There will always be references to the movies. But to continue with the impossiblility (or improbability), some people would buy it. Well, what have we got? Two ultimate improbabilities, both bought by some people. An unknown number. Now, let me give you something which is probable. An RTS game called GB2, which has a number of movie civs (with some made up/EU units) and a number of EU civs. The ratio of movie civs to EU civs is probably 5:3. The campaigns for both EU and movies will be most likely made up, but with references to both EU and movies. Who will buy it? Well, it's got everything. Diehard movie fans will love the movie stuff. Diehard EU fans will love the EU stuff. Everyone else (the majority) will love the fact that it's Star Wars and that it's a good game. I'm aiming for the latter. Shouldn't we all? Footnote: Sorry about the confusing improbability stuff... I've been reading Hitchhikers Guide again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted January 13, 2003 Author Share Posted January 13, 2003 Yeah alright. My previous post was just stupid. But the fact remains the things that annoyed me about SWGB1 was the stuff that wasn't in the movies, and I don't really want more non-movie stuff in a game that is funnily enough based on the movies. I was thinking about this last night. One of the things that has given man games replayability is mods. Mods for Jedi Outcast have proven very popular. So what if you could have the ability for mods in a new Star Wars RTS? You would be able to edit a textfile detailing what units the race had access to, and create skins for the unit models. There are plenty of enthusiasts out there who enjoy making mods, and I'm sure that in no time you would have a Yuuzhan Vong mod, a Smuggler's Alliance mod, a New Republic mod, even a Kamino mod. Sure there are arguments for including them in the actual game, but I'm saying how would people feel about this if it came down to only being canon civs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 GB is not just based on the movies. It's a Star Wars game. EU is, funnily enough, Star Wars. It's not Star Trek. It's not Starry Wars. Now that we've clarified that.... Okay, so maybe GB2 could be moddable. But the devs actually making things is far preferable to actually giving people the option to create things. I would be greatly disappointed if a developer didn't make EU just because he trusted the gaming community to. I don't make mods. I'm sure many people do, but I don't, and so I'd be extremely displeased with this callous rejection. Sure, mods will let people make Ewoks... Kaminoans... Trandoshans.... and so on. But the developers are better, and the developers should cover all the major bases. Those being the canon civs and the prominent EU civs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted January 13, 2003 Author Share Posted January 13, 2003 Well while we might agree about S-foils, we'll never agree about what is and is not Star Wars. I maintain EU is not Star Wars, you say it is. Anyway, as long as I get all the major civs, and by that I mean all the GB ones (including Wookiees) plus any that feature in Episode III as prominently as the Naboo, I will be happy. Any extra ones I can always not use. I assume the popular choice for SWGB2 is to have Unique Unit Sets for each civ. How many civs do you think it is feasible to have with unique unit sets? The most unique civs I've seen in one game is four (WC3). Have there been more in other games? At least eight unique unit sets might be a big ask of LucasArts, and I'd much rather see all eight GB civs (especially if they want to call it SWGB2) than to replace one of them with an EU civ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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