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How many civs should SWGB2 have?


Admiral Vostok

How many civs should SWGB2 have?  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. How many civs should SWGB2 have?

    • SWGB2 should have more than SWGB (10 or more)
      13
    • SWGB2 should have about the same as SWGB (7 to 9)
      4
    • SWGB2 should have less than SWGB (6 or less)
      4


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Why cant they have all 8 of the original civs and add 2 more from EU?

 

The EU civs can be the Yuuzhan Vong and some other EU civ. I really doubt the Chiss will be in it simply because LA would have to make them up. And Hapans. . They could be in, but again, LA would have to do some more work to create stuff.

 

I think they could add more civs if they wanted too. They already have they 8 civs in their databanks or whatever. *All they'd have to do is like enhance them or something and tada they're finished with the movie civs. They can make more civs.

 

 

*I am not sure if they could do it that way, I'm jus trying to make a point.

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Although I haven't read the books, Fergie has convinced me that there is more than enough on the Chiss, Vong and Hapans.

 

However, I hold my opinion that they are EU civs, and are generally unheard of in the non-EU/SW community.

 

I would say Mon Cals and Hutt Cartel take priority, and then possibly Ewoks.

 

On Ewoks- They should be underbalanced. All the civs in current GB exept for Gungans are futuristic. Gungans are in the stage just after Mediaval times. Ewoks, however, are a new civilisation.

Although maybe , though thier units are weaker they are much cheaper? It could be one of those TOTALLY unique civs.

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Well, I am a Star Wars "Phreak" (freak) as my name shows, and I know a heckofalot of sta wars since I basically worship it...

 

I dont think they could make a civ with the Chiss. yes they have Claw Crafts, and other things but I still think very little is known about them.

 

A Hapans civ could be pulled off, but if it was a choice between Hapans and Yuuzhan Vong, Vong all the way.

 

Mon Cal civ? Why. They are already a part of the Rebels. it's like that Kamino civ thread or whatever. The Kaminos are in the Republic. it would be pointless to make them. IMO

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StarWarsPhreak - i just cant find the words to tell you how STUPID your statement of "Depending on the Civ limit, I'd take the NR and IR over the Rebs and Emps." truly is.

 

Back to the civs, i think everyone agrees with-

01. Galactic Republic

02. Galactic Empire

03. Rebel Alliance

04. Royal Naboo

05. Gungans

06. Confederacy of Independant Systems

07. Trade Federation

08. Hutt Cartel

 

Now for the others

09. Wookiees - everyone's favourite carpet (wondering if they get free laying?). Anyway LA seemed to do a good job with them in GB, i liked them anyway. Also, they would be fairly popular with people who havent played the game or read EU because of chewie.

 

10. Black Sun - just a suggestion for a Hutt Cartel enemy. Reason being that if the Hutt Cartel are in the game, i assume they would have a campaign and would hence need a competing criminal organisation as an enemy, although any other criminal civ would do.

 

11. Ewoks - just for fun really, although they did pretty well on Endor. Besides we see more of the Ewoks than we do Wookiee's, and there is a successful wookiee civ in GB.

 

12. Vyun Vang - there is a small calling for them, although im not particually fond, i would probably prefer to see Mon Cal. Besides, they're a Star Trek rip-off.

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About your civ list, Windu:

 

1-8: Sure.

9: Sure.

10: A better 'criminal' civ would be the Smugglers Union.

11: They'd be far better off as a just-for-fun secret civ.

12: Yes, but like the Hutt Cartel they need a campaign/enemy, and the New Republic is perfect.

 

*additions*

 

13: New Republic- is the most important EU civ and should be taken above all else.

14: Imperial Remnant- probably 2nd most important EU civ.

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Darth Windu: If you dont want me to insult you on your obvious lack of EU knowledge then you dont insult me.

 

I do believe you mean Yuuzhan Vong not Vyan Vang. . . and you say, I'm stupid?

 

 

besides, I am sure there would have to be a civ limit. They can't have like 15-20 civs. That would lower some other part of the game's quality.

 

 

And the Rebs and Emp are very different from NR and IR.

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IR: Still uses stromtroopers, star destroyers, TIEs (of sorts), basicaly the same vehilces.

 

NR: same trooper uniform, same space fighters (I'be been hearing about these outlandish E-Wings, but that is 1 sole unit)

 

StarWarsPhreak- Actually it is a bit stupid. It's like making a historical RTS like EE or RoN, and making a list of civs. At the end, they can choose between Koreans and Atlantis. Sure, Atlantis has exellent potential but no-one knows wether they really existed. There may be a lot of things suggesting it existed, but no proof.

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Ah. I've said this so many times, but here goes.

 

The NR and IR greatly differ from the Rebels and Imperials.

While the Rebels were a guerilla movement, using hit-and-run tactics and mobile bases, the New Republic is the established government and therefore posesses far more pure power. They tend to use a lot of Capital Ships with some slow yet powerful Fighters, while the Rebels used lighter versions of everything and focussed on Fighters.

The Empire was the established government, with massive invasion power, relying on their heavy Mechs filled with stormtroopers to crush any base. However, while the Empire wielded a blunt instrument, the Remnant is a lot more like the original Rebels. Their strengths are varied, with few yet powerful Capital Ships and light Mechs being prominent.

 

The EU contains plenty of source material for units, buildings, you name it. And I'm sure that, as always, the game creators will deftly fill the gaps.

 

 

Crazy_dog:

IR- Doesn't have nearly as many stormtroopers (only uses them as elite units), has very few SD's (but they wouldn't be in the game anyway), would use Preybirds instead of TIEs, and different vehicles.

 

NR- Different trooper uniform (of course!), different space fighters (E-wing, V-wing, K-wing, etc).

 

 

Windu: No, it's like making a Republic and an Empire. Quite different.

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While I don't want EU at all, the main reason why I don't think IR and NR will work in GB is that although they have plenty of new stuff and different fighting styles, they are still too similar. And because of this, I think making them so they don't look similar will not do justice to the civs for EU fans.

 

For example - although the Imperial Remnant has many new wonderful aircraft ask yourself this: what is the Imperial Remnant's most numerous and common aircraft? Now correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it is still the TIE Fighter.

Now you could change them to give them a different basic fighter craft, but it wouldn't be true to the civ. They need to use TIE Fighters to remain true to the EU. It's not just a matter of IR uses TIE Fighters amongst other things, it's a case of IR use TIE Fighters in excess of all other things. Denying them this, in my opinion, would be a shame. The same can be said for New Republic. Their main fighter craft, and quite simply a symbol of the New Republic itself is the X-Wing. Yes, they use other craft, but their primary aircraft is the X-Wing. Denying them this, again, makes the civ not really true to the books/comics/other games.

 

To be honest these are the two EU civs I would be okay with allowing, because they have at least some grounding in the movies. But if they can't be done properly (with TIEs and X-Wings as their main fighters), I wouldn't like to see them done at all.

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You're worried about them being too similar, Vostok, and yet you're not allowing them to move apart.

The Remnant doesn't use TIE fighters all that much. Here's a direct quote:

"Look at them, captain. SoroSuub Preybirds."

"There's nothing wrong with the Preybirds, sir."

"The point is that they're not being manufactured by the Empire."

"It's not over yet, sir."

But it nearly was. Two hundred Star Destroyeds remaining from a Fleet that had once included over twenty-five thousand of them..... (etc.)

 

The Remnant has lost the Empire's production facilities and has a whole slew of entirely new units. To give them the TIE fighter, symbol of the Empire, would completely destroy the fact that they're a new and unique civ.

And if you look at other books, there are heaps of new fighters, not least among them new types of TIEs (eg. TIE raptor).

 

You're worried about being true to the civ. Well, look at the current GB. There a lot of stuff there that isn't true to the civ, true to the movies, true to the EU even.

Look at the Wookiees! Wookiees good at air? There's been no evidence to suggest that in movies or EU. They probably took it off the fact that Chewie is a copilot. Is that being true to the civ?

Look at the Republic! *nearly drags out Gunship debate, but thinks better of it...*

 

True to the civ is lower on the priorities than having a good civ and a good game. Gameplay>realism. Also, even if the NR and IR did have X-Wings and TIE fighters, you said yourself that their fighting styles and the like are entirely different, and they're much more key to the civ than a single unit.

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You're worried about being true to the civ. Well, look at the current GB. There a lot of stuff there that isn't true to the civ, true to the movies, true to the EU even.

Well I've never liked that aspect of GB, as I've said in many other posts. But surely people would bring this argument up even moreso if the IR and NR will implemented in the way you're suggesting. Fair enough about the TIEs, but what would the Remnant's main troops be? It isn't different to the Stormtrooper is it?

 

And what about the X-Wing? Rogue Squadron (in the novels) was an important symbol of the New Republic. To not include them would surely yield some complaints.

 

My point is think of it this way: if there was a game WITHOUT the Empire and Rebellion but WITH the Remnant and New Republic, what would their units be? I think you'd find that the obvious choices for some units would clash with the Empire and Rebellion, and to deprive them of these obvious choices is really just contorting the look of the army to fit the game, and I for one would not be a fan if that happened to any of the canon civs. It might happen a little in GB, but each civ still gets their obvious units. I'd like to see every civ more "correct" to the material they're taken from, so having these somewhat "not correct" EU forces would ruin it.

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But surely people would bring this argument up even moreso if the IR and NR will implemented in the way you're suggesting.

I think that people will be more concerned with the fact that they're entertaining civs to play with. In GB's case, it was just another thing to point the finger at.

 

Fair enough about the TIEs, but what would the Remnant's main troops be? It isn't different to the Stormtrooper is it?

As I said, stormtroopers went into decline after Endor. After the

 

destruction of the Imperial Academy on Carida,

there were very few stormies around, fewer people ready to be trained as stormies and even fewer places to train them into stormies.

 

But I'm really not sure about this one. I mean, it's certain that there aren't stormies, but it's uncertain (EU doesn't show) what there are.

 

And what about the X-Wing? Rogue Squadron (in the novels) was an important symbol of the New Republic. To not include them would surely yield some complaints.

If the NR ends up with the X-Wing, they'd most likely have the new Incom XJ model, which is more advanced than the typical rebel T-65. And, once again, the fighting styles and the like are much more important differences.

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But surely you see my point? Someone who is as protective of EU as I am of the movies will not be overly impressed with these representations. Sure, they might be overjoyed that they actually get to use the New Republic, but then they'll realise it isn't really what it should be, and become bitter at LA for ruining the representation of the civs.

 

All the EU I've experienced still has TIE Fighters, Stormtroopers, AT-STs and X-Wings.

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Your point is a hypothetical one. Not all too many people are as protective as EU as you are of the movies, and not all too many people worry about things other than the fact that it's a great game.

Are you bitter at LA for ruining the representation of plenty of things in GB1?

 

You clearly haven't experienced enough EU. What about the Vong, to begin with?

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Well firstly I'm not the kind of person that holds grudges. So while LA did make some silly things for GB, I don't hold it against them.

 

The last piece of EU I read was the Jedi Academy Trilogy, and I thought it was such rubbish I swore never to read any more EU again. It opened my eyes to how different EU is to real Star Wars, and I decided I just don't like it. At the start of 2002, I was tempted to begin reading the NJO novels, but after reading about such contradictions as the Vong's immunity towards the Force, I have since been thankful I didn't read any. I've also almost been tempted by some of the prequel EU to come out, but again there are some outlandish concepts in them that I've read on the back covers that make me thankful. Since my abstainance from EU, I have become more powerful in Star Wars canon-knowledge than you can possibly imagine, and this has fuelled my distaste for EU.

 

I think I'll change my signature to reflect my Star Wars Purism. Any who feel as strongly as I do are welcome to join my club! Although I think I'm probably the only one who feels so strongly about it...

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Hehe....

 

What was so bad about the Jedi Academy trilogy? I didn't mind it. However, I thought some of Anderson's other novels (Darksaber especially) were fairly bad. *shrug* But the JA was good.

There are plenty of novels other than Anderson's and the NJO. And no matter what you feel about the concepts in them, the NJO books are good books.

 

Nice sig. But I doubt many other people will be copying it. :D

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Hey, I've said all along they're a valid form of entertainment. I'd just like to keep them separate from the movies, and as such not be over-represented in a game (which is what even one PEU civ will do). I'm not so much against an EEU civ (because they have at least some gorunding in the movies, but I object to a PEU civ.

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StarWarsPhreak - in case you hadnt noticed, I SPELL THEM DIFFERENTLY EVERY TIME I MENTION THEM!

 

Back to the NR and IR. That would be like making 4 Rebels civs.

1. Pre-ep4

2. Post-ep4

3. Post-ep5

4. Post-ep6

 

Care to share why they would be different? There is absolutely no basis in the movies for the IR and NR. In my opinion, if there are going to be EU based civs, they should at least be set inbetween the 6 movies, not before ep1, not after ep6.

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*copy-pastes from higher in the page*

 

The NR and IR greatly differ from the Rebels and Imperials.

While the Rebels were a guerilla movement, using hit-and-run tactics and mobile bases, the New Republic is the established government and therefore posesses far more pure power. They tend to use a lot of Capital Ships with some slow yet powerful Fighters, while the Rebels used lighter versions of everything and focussed on Fighters.

The Empire was the established government, with massive invasion power, relying on their heavy Mechs filled with stormtroopers to crush any base. However, while the Empire wielded a blunt instrument, the Remnant is a lot more like the original Rebels. Their strengths are varied, with few yet powerful Capital Ships and light Mechs being prominent.

 

The EU contains plenty of source material for units, buildings, you name it. And I'm sure that, as always, the game creators will deftly fill the gaps.

 

Why must we have EU set within the movies? Do you have some kind of mindset that doesn't allow you outside the canon period?

 

And the NR and IR are EEU, not PEU, so they do have a basis in canon. (Thankyou, Vostok, for those lovely acronyms.)

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No problem Corran, I hope to have everyone using them soon.

 

But Windu has a point. The Rebellion evolved over time really, and the New Republic is kind of the end-point of that evolution. It was different at Endor than it was at Yavin. But by that argument, the "Old" Republic and Empire should be combined, so let's not go there.

 

And Windu, I had notice you spelled them differently everytime, but I thought it was unintentional. That's actually pretty funny!

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Originally posted by Crazy_dog no.3

But why not just have the Rebels upgrade?!

It makes sense doesn't it:

Rebels upgrade from "small risistance group", to their Yavin state, to thier "in-betweeny"state, thier Hoth/Endor state then thier NR state.

I read that stuff u posted here and other threads, CorranSec, with NR bieng more established and all that. But they still rely on air, space superiority and infantry. It's not like they have [good] artillery or ground vehicles.

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