razorace Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 People like that are just plain stupid. There's not much you can do about it. It's not like you can selectively ban abortions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted January 14, 2003 Author Share Posted January 14, 2003 Cjais I can't remember anything from when I was 2 weeks old so does that meant that I wasn't alive or a human being? Also when you said It makes no sense at all to talk about pity and empathy for a life that would never exist. Do you have pity for the life that isn't born right now because a would-be mother decided to take the car instead of the train and thus didn't meet her future husband? No I have no pity for a woman who didnt meet her future husband and thus didnt have sex and thus a fetus was never conceived. I do have pity for evnets that have already been put into play that a human being will come out of it (conception). That life WOULD exist but for the abortion. A fetus is a life that is existing and will exist further... your point about a life never existing makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Originally posted by Reborn Outcast Cjais I can't remember anything from when I was 2 weeks old so does that meant that I wasn't alive or a human being? You weren't there yet. A baby existed, yes, but it had the self-consciousness and instincts of an ant. I do have pity for evnets that have already been put into play that a human being will come out of it (conception). That life WOULD exist but for the abortion. A fetus is a life that is existing and will exist further... your point about a life never existing makes no sense. Let me try it one more time: You caring for a 4 celled embryo and claiming it has an important, individual existence is just the same as me claiming that the cell in my upper right ear is an important, individual existence with a life of it's own. Point being that we shouldn't regard abortion as murder because there isn't any human being yet. There is no person in a few cells. It's grotesque to think so. It's about as silly as projecting an individual existence and consciousness into a virus, simply because it's technically alive and holds DNA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted January 14, 2003 Author Share Posted January 14, 2003 Originally posted by Cjais You weren't there yet. A baby existed, yes, but it had the self-consciousness and instincts of an ant. Just becuase it had the self-consciousness and instincts of an ant doesn't make it human? I don't quite understand what you are trying to say about this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Originally posted by Reborn Outcast Just becuase it had the self-consciousness and instincts of an ant doesn't make it human? I don't quite understand what you are trying to say about this... I give up. You win. Happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted January 14, 2003 Author Share Posted January 14, 2003 Ses I agree this thread has lost its individual purpose and noone is going to win... so just CLOSE THIS THREAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Originally posted by Reborn Outcast Just becuase it had the self-consciousness and instincts of an ant doesn't make it human? I don't quite understand what you are trying to say about this... It has no intelligence or self-consciousness at that point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted January 14, 2003 Author Share Posted January 14, 2003 Cjais close this thread please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted January 14, 2003 Author Share Posted January 14, 2003 Ok nevermind: People who still want to post in this thread may... it is not going to be closed.. I am not going to post in this thread anymore because I have said all I am going to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Originally posted by Reborn Outcast Cjais close this thread please. Sorry man. I can't simply close threads because one person feels like it. If you don't like a thread, let it die. If it doesn't start dropping to the bottom of the page, it must mean people still want to post in it. I close threads if they get out of hand. This hasn't, so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonkH8er Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Originally posted by Reborn Outcast Ses I agree this thread has lost its individual purpose and noone is going to win... so just CLOSE THIS THREAD. If you're coming into these threads expecting to "win", then you're here for the wrong reason. It's not about proving eachother wrong or converting someone to think the same way you do. It's about expressing opinions and letting ideas flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWhiteRaider Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Originally posted by STTCT I think you guys are assuming too much and exagerating too much. I don't believe that a lot of girls just go and get an abortion as a form of b.c. If you think that's what they do then go find statitistics on that information. But I'm going to take the benefit of the doubt and say that assuming women just get drunk and for the hell of it just figure that they'll have an abortion is insane. Please... you guys seem to be placing too much of this on the woman as if we are some whore's who go around all "unprotected" and figure if we get knocked up we will just get an abortion. Well franky that is not what it is like. In fact only 5% of abortions are done on non-rape victims. Guys take alook at this site. http://www.abortioncancer.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 That number doesn't sound right at all. What's your source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 That number is soooooooo not true. It would be exaggerating even though it was turned around: Not even 5% of all abortions are done because of the mother-to-be was raped. Think about it: it would mean that all the gazillion abortions that are done daily in this world are practically all "caused" by rapists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Okay. Checked the abortion-statistics of Finland, and according to those numbers, the number of teenagers (17 years old or younger) RAPED EVERY YEAR in the US and took an abortion is 125.000!! Now keep in mind that this is only the tip of the ice berg. The vast, vast majority of rape victims never got pregnant or simply kept their baby or had a miscarriage. Quite a lot of rapin' going on, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 why does Finland have statistics on the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 I just took our teen-abortion statistic and multiplied it. We got 5.000.000 people here, you got 260.000.000 IIRC. Our stuff x 52 = US stuff Well, roughly anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 That doesn't exactly work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 It won't work if you're discussing "statistics", but it does do the job quite nicely if you're just trying to make a point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Originally posted by STTCT actually - u can order the morning after pill online or go to a clinic and its really easy... some people just are stupid and don't take advantage of things like that. That's not always stupidity. Most women don't become aware of the baby before its too late. Originally posted by STTCT You are asking a woman to give up school or pay for the baby. You put your finger right on the point there: It is, and always has been, about keeping the women out of the labor force. Or it is because some ****edup, old, meaningless book. I don't know which is worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Originally posted by -s/<itzo- that's just absurd. how can you compare antibiotics, technology, etc... with abortion. just because it makes life easier it doesn't mean it has the same concept. in the process of abortion we are removing a fetus not a disease. You are quoting me out of context (for the upteenth time, and I'm getting really, really pissed about it. Quote properly, or not at all). I responded to the fact that abortion has made people more sloppy. Well, so has antibiotics. Instead of being the last way out, it has become the excuse for sloppy hygieine. Which leads to increased antibiotics (ab)use, which causes problems to the environment that are actually real, unlike your problems with abortion. So, no they are not compairable: Antibiotics are unimagineably much worse. Originally posted by -s/<itzo- how do you know for sure? you can't always go by what others said simply because they're not professionals in the field. therefore the information may not be 100% reliable. but if you can be more specific on that matter, then i'll reconsider. but till then you don't have the real facts to back that up so your opinion can't be held accountable. And that's from a creationist. DON'T LECTURE ME ON FACTS UNTIL YOU HAVE SOME FOR YOURSELF! AND DON'T MISQUOTE ME! Period. I am getting sick and tired of this! If you want something to be 100% reliable, then I suggest that you turn off all the lights in your house, so they won't fail you. And don't even live in your house because it may topple unprovoked (that actually happened to a sports complex recently). Then and only then can you be 100% sure that technology won't fail you: Because then you won't have any technology. Originally posted by -s/<itzo- its like the old saying: "If you can't do the time... don't do the crime." And free sex was made a "crime" when? That view would be more appropriate in a Dark Age Catholic country. Not in a free democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Originally posted by Toonces What I find hypocritical are those who are Pro-Abortion being against the Death Penalty, or those who are Pro-Life being for the Death Penalty. What I find hypocritical are those who are for capital punishment, yet call their country a democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Originally posted by matt-windu -- You could say LITTERALLY the same thing about antibiotics. Or refrigerators. Or, for that matter, any technology at all. Because technology is there to make life easier. So I would ask you to think through the logical conclusions that follow your statement, before ever stating it again... Just sound advice, someone may recognise you. Fail once: Get a reminder. Fail twice: Look like a fool. -- No, you couldn't. There are viable alternatives to abortion. What is the alternative to antibiotics? leeches? What is a non-technological alternative to the refrigerator? There isn't one. Again I am quoted out of context. See the reply I gave Skitzo, and STOP QUOTING OUT OF CONTEXT. Seriously. The reason why some people are frying Lomborg's ass is that he quoted out of context. Never, ever do it and put your real name on it. People have lost careers over that. I'm not kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Originally posted by Reborn Outcast Read this site: [...] That the site is biased is imidiately obvious to the discerning user. That they claim otherwise merits total disregard of it. I have given it its merits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Originally posted by matt-windu Does the blueprint grow into a car? This whole analogy is flawed. No. The blueprint becomes a car if you put it into the right factory. The foetus becomes a baby when you put it into the right (biological) factory. Ever tried to assemble a Ford T in a dockyard? Ever tried to assemble a human baby in a cow? Originally posted by matt-windu Neural cells are not replacement, and that's where our consciousness lies. YES! Someone finally got that point. And since there, usually, are no neural cells in the foetus at the time of abortion, there is no individual. BTW: If you want to read some really whacky when-is-it-real-life-fiction, I suggest Black Library's 40k or Ghost in the Shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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