Dr. Zaius Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 what would a wookie look like if all his/her hair was shaved off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiedo Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 what would a wookie look like if all his/her hair was shaved off? I shudder to think *shudder* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Risky Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 It'd probably look like a phallus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pnut_Man Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Maybe the Gungans become extinct. We're talking 40 years, Vader might have been a little pissed at Naboo, homeworld of his ex-wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Red Riding Hood Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Originally posted by Matt Shoemaker Personally I liked the Gungan race, but it seems I'm the only one. I wouldn't be surprised to see them as a playable race in an upcoming expansion though, along with races like Sullustans or Chiss. I doubt the Chiss will be in no matter how cool they are (and they ARE). Their race wasn't very normal outside their own territory, beside of course Thrawn. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Only ones available (thank god) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 We're talking 40 years, Actually it's no more than 19-20 years after Ep. III, 21-23 years after after Ep. II, and 31-33 years after Ep. I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setsuko Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Hopefully, the reason why there's no gungans in the original movies is that the people of Naboo got tired of them, and sold them as furniture material to Coruscant. Hey, a girl can dream, right? (on a more serious note, I consider the gungans, and especially the portrait of them in the movie a stupid, ignorant parallell to the rasistic american views of their black population in the early-to-mif 20th century, though it also exists later, though less common. Compare it to movies like "the Jazz Boy" and its ilk, they portrait blacks as lazy, stupid, funny clowns. GL even went so far as giving the gungans a language scarily similar to a mockery of immigrant blacks, especially from Jamaica and nearby islands. Frankly, such blatant parallells to rasism is something that we can all live without in our SWG experience, right? We don't HAVE to live in the 1920's if we don't want to. Not even GL can force *baddumdumDISH!* that upon us. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Risky Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Wha? When were the Gungans lazy, stupid, or funny clowns? Only Jar Jar was slapstick as far as I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setsuko Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 [EDIT: edited for easier reading. My writing gets quite clogged up when I think I'm on to something! ] Did you sleep through the entire movie, Matt? Wouldn't blame you, though.... Actually, I am speaking of an elaborate plot, hatched by evil itself, that puts several historical rasistic views of black people in Episode 1. Firstly, we have the clear example, Jar-Jar. I guess I don't have to write why. The typical "Swamp Negroe" from early cinema, with a CG skinjob. Also, we have Boss Nass who confirms a clear parallell to the traditional colonialistic views of an African tribesleader, in the stereotypical heavy stature and a low status compared to the humans. While Amidala is the enlightened, humanistic pseudoregent of Theed, Boss Nass is a spitting, easily distracted leader who is more interested in getting approval from the (white) Theedians than his peoples survival. It is not the logical reason that makes him fight the trade federation (that they will wipe everyone out), but the fact that he longs for the Theedians to show him respect. As another example, take their fighting tactics. They fight with shields almost identical to those used by the zulu tribe. They are portraited as lacking of tactics in that they attack a foe with far superior firepower and numbers, which is how English and the Boer officers viewed the native Africans in their wars in southern Africa (which they suffered for in Isandhlwana!). It's the view of the naive, 'come-what-may' black man, a view that was one of the reason why slavery could last so much longer in the US than in the rest of the western world, that the black people "needed" masters to survive and function properly. Perhaps I am a bit affected by studying equality science, but I consider these parts of Episode 1 really bad taste. "Meesa mastah, show yeesa meesa town!" I'm surprised that GL didn't make the people of Theed cotton barons while he was at it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Risky Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Actually I enjoyed the entire movie with the exception of the Senate nonsense. Ok, your points are fine and all and I won't argue with them (though I still don't consider the Gungans the stereotypical black man of the Star Wars universe), but I will ask you something. Did you get this pissed off at the fact that all of the Imperial Naval officers are British? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setsuko Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 British? Hahaha, well, no. Since I do not have english as my primary language, I don't often react to the difference between british and american accent. After all, Queens English DOES sound more uptight and serious, which adds to the feel of the Naval Officers. If they spoke a thick Texan dialect, I don't think I'd see them in the same light, no... Regarding the other posts, I'd say that rasistic undertones are common in the SW movies. Intentional? Don't think so. But I am quite sad that they are not fewer in the new movies, but rather, more common. It's a shame, since I really enjoy the old movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Helmet Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 imperials were most definately british......though it seemed right.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thew Rydur Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Weren't the Rebels British too, but then they edited out their voices and added American ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Wow I just thought everything was like the story told it, and not associated with the real world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Risky Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 I just enjoy the movies for what they are, the classic story of good versus evil and all that fancy jazz. Looking into faults that aren't really there, such as these racists things people love to bring up because they want to feel important, just hinders that enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setsuko Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Originally posted by Matt Shoemaker Looking into faults that aren't really there, such as these racists things people love to bring up because they want to feel important, just hinders that enjoyment. Not wanting to see racist undertones, that's the kind of mentality that gives Le Pen so much power in France, and that granted Jörg Haider his short powertrip in Austria, etc. Sorry, but if it wasn't such a serious issue (racism), then I'd say "hey, get on with it! It's a movie!". But I'd say that there's limits to what we should accept in the name of entertainment. Ignorance is never a cool thing, Matt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounds Risky Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 I'm not choosing to ignore racism, I'm choosing to not listen to people who claim to see racist undertones in a silly little movie. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setsuko Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Then don't. But, that doesn't lessen the fact that they are there. Sorry. EDIT: And until you gather some counterevidence, I'd go with my analysis. If you think I am so wrong, then say why. I'm really interested in a serious discussion in the matter. So no, I'm not just flaming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deft Aklin Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Okay, the only obvious Specism in SW was that of the Empire being all Human. There was a reason for this though. The Emperor was using the force ability Cooperation to unify the Empire bringing them closer together and functioning more as a unit. In any event, the difficulty to do this to multiple species increases the difficulty two fold, considering the difficulty was already unimaginable due to the number of members in the Empire, Palpatine made the Empire more specist in appearance, to make the task that much easier. Hopefully this makes sense to you. In any event, I never even assumed any racist/specist undertones in SW. Obviously you can assume they are there, it's not a perfect universe, but as far as being portrayed, it seems to me that they left it out. I think far too many of you take the movies far too serious. This is not a video bible! It's also not a theological and/or philosophical documetary. It's a series of movies meant to entertain the masses. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes I am here and I do love SW, but I fear some of you have lost that definitive line between reality and imaginary. I do not intend to insult any of you, and I should hope you do not take it that way. I fear that my words will be misconstrued and contorted shortly after I post this, and I just want to make sure you understand my intentions. Anyway, I have rambled and apologized far too much already..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Ok, I just have to butt in here. Is there racism in Star Wars? Yes there is. In what way? The evil Empire against most none-humans. Why? For what reason? Why not the supression of humans by none-humans? Well, who knows, but it certaintly makes you think about it racism. Hopefully you learn from such movies that racism is bad, and that's what I think is part of the intent with it. Imperial british, as I guess is a more suitable way to refer it as, was used by the Empire because it is more formal than the american language. It was also used alot in the Old Republic. But you have british accented rebels aswell, like Wedge Antilles, and Mon Mothma to name just 2. Wedge went to an upper division school when he was young, which no doubt teached the more formal speech than the more casual way of talking. Mon Mothma is a remnant of the old ways. Says it all really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Oh, and one other thing. Quick, Matt, post something. Anything. Your postcount is now 666!!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setsuko Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Gaarni, sadly, you missed the point. Portraiting a fascist regime in a movie: fine by me. Slipping in demeaning racist stereotypes: no-no. I do not consider the specisism of the Empire a hidden racist propaganda, since the Empire is a study of any fascist/totalitarian government, and xenophobia is one of the basic ideologies of fascism. That's simply how it works, and worked in both Spain, Italy and Germany. Since the movies also describe the negative aspects of fascism (they are the bad guys, after all! ), it can not be considered an undertone. And no, I do not speak about the racism in the SW galaxy, because it is there, and so is it in this world. The SW galaxy would feel far less realistic if it didn't. HOWEVER, I speak about demeaning aspects of the manuscript to especially Episode 1. That is a totally different thing. And sorry that I disagree, but the "I didn't react to it the first time I saw it, so it isn't there" argument is not an argument. Because if you based all analysis on a brief overlook, nothing would be found out. What I challange you to do is, *gasp* THINK! Question what you think you know! And next time you see a movie or read a book, scrape just about half an inch under the layer of explosions and dialogue. Trust me, you will find both good parts and bad parts, but overall, you will find MORE in the movies/books than you did before. But frankly, I'd like better arguments from you than 'I didn't see any!'. Come on! I know you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deft Aklin Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Originally posted by Jan Gaarni Oh, and one other thing. Quick, Matt, post something. Anything. Your postcount is now 666!!! :D ....and Matt was never heard from again....... Anyway, on to you Setsuko, please refer to the second part of my last post. I did not say it wasn't there, it is nearly impossible to create anything without a small hint of our own bias intertwined somehow. What I pointed out the reason it is there, then I pointed out the fact that several people are taking this far too seriously. Ahem. I can understand discussing timeline, different model vessels, stats, professions, things we want to do in game, but specism/racism is a senseless topic. As a world I would like to think most of us are beyond this topic, and the few ingorant individuals left that still support racism and slavery need to be dropped in the ghetto they so love to condescend to remark upon. I am in fact Asian in descent. Japanese to be precise. I have no racial stereotypes, and treat all as equals. I am sure that many will not agree with me.....well then too bad. But in my opinion, this topic should be dropped. Yes the Empire is almost all human/near-human. I explained why, yet you continue to argue. Think on this, the Emperor sided with the Nemoidians. Why would he do that if he were specist? Okay, okay, to meet his own ends. Well then, why would he have Tyrannus create the Separatist army? Again, to meet his own ends. Now think on this, would a specist put himself in a situation to deal with so many of different species? He was after all, the Chancellor wasn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skelch Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 As a Christian I can not help but see the MANY facets of Christianity GL used to make his movies. From Obi Wan dying in order to save everyone else, including a planet and then still being with Luke in spirit. (although Christianity teaches Christ is alive and it is the Holy Spirit that comforts and guides us)To Darth Mauls satanic make up. Now I don't think GL is an Aniti Christian biggot. After you point them out in your thread I see why you, and others would see GL's Gungas as racist sterotypes of earler Western takes of Africans. The Question that has to be asked, and I mean no disrespect, is do you thank he really ment to be racist? Sure ones ideas come from the influences one has while growing up. Movies, parents, friends, all play a part in what drives us with ideas. Now with our without the racist tones, I thought the whole Gungan thing was stupid. Me sa hate jar jar. As far as the dialect of Jar Jar I saw an interview of the actor that played him and he said the dialect he came up with all his own and he could not believe that blacks thought he was making fun of blacks, cause... he is black (forgive me as I do not have his name handy) After reading your post I am now more convinced that maybe George stole the placing of the Gungans from watching shacka sulu, as I never thought of the whole shield spear thing. Ultimately I think George maybe losing his touch in the movies, but I don't think he is a racist. Back to the intention fo the thread... Gungans are ok, the underwater homes and the ability to swim under water for long periods of time would be cool, just as long as I don't have to read some NPC saying "Welcom ta me place me sa so glad to see you" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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