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Originally posted by Clemme w/Stick

It all ended up in violent demonstrations and killings, but they got heard, and it has eventually changed.

 

Don't you think they could have acheived the same result without all the bloodshed and hatred.

 

Heck, if I had an army of demonstrators behind me, I'd also be able to get heard.

 

As far as Eminem and 50 Cent goes, theyre brilliant....both of them! Have you ever listened to the way that they put together the words, and how they make them sound extremely good along side those beats they made?

 

I like Lose yourself and Till I collapse, but they're also fairly atypical rap songs.

 

And to the ppl that dont like the beats, what is wrong with you ppl?

 

Aesthetics are aesthetics - and worthless to argue over.

 

But we can argue the technique. Beats are monotonous. You'd never listen to them unless someone is drowning them out in loud vocals.

 

Theyre really good at this point, and you never see to beats that sound alike.

 

Yeah, and every rapper has his own style and lyrics when it comes to staging himself :rolleyes:

 

Not at all, in my opinion.

 

but you're all dumb if you cannot recognize the artistic talent and ability these people have when they do this job.

 

So we're dumb if we're of another opinion?

 

Let's see you write raps and make it sound good.

 

Yeh, it's plenty hard to rhyme. To a friggin' drum machine.

 

And the complaining about the beats and the music itself is rediculous too, as I and many others enjoy it more than any other type of music.

 

Statistics can be used to prove anything. 14% of all people know that!

 

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damn lies, and statistics that don't support what I believe.

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Originally posted by Zulu

Well if you guys dont like rap dont ****ing listenin to it (plain and simple) :rolleyes:

 

Yup.

 

And if we don't like religion, we don't have to believe in it. The problem is, it's doing nasty things to education and problem solving through logical inference.

 

But hey, I reserve my right to rant :cool:

 

Rap consists in large parts of people ranting and cursing to a monotonous beat. It is now America's most popular music.

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Actually, it is doing some nasty things to education, this I agree. I work in a very urban community, most of the kids are black and are very much into the rap and r&b scene. I see things from rap music that heavily influence their speech, spelling, and attitude. I've had 4th graders try to "step up to me," just like they see their favorite rapper do in their video (granted, they get the Mr. Rick Eye Of Death , and know they made a boo boo). I've seen 6th graders spell the word "fabulous" like the semi-famous rappers name, "Fabolus." (I asked him how he knew how to spell that, and he told me the rapper)

 

So on this, I agree. But it's mostly the result of parents exposing them to it. I let K and 1st grade students out the door to go to their parents car, and when they open I hear Snoop Dogg raving about "slappin a *****, slapping a ho." So it's no surprise that they do what they do... :(

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Originally posted by ShockV1.89

I work in a very urban community, most of the kids are black and are very much into the rap and r&b scene. I see things from rap music that heavily influence their speech, spelling, and attitude. [...] I've seen 6th graders spell the word "fabulous" like the semi-famous rappers name, "Fabolus." (I asked him how he knew how to spell that, and he told me the rapper)

 

Actually, this a whole new, exciting topic :p

 

When the goddarn President says "Nook-u-lear" instead of nuclear, it's not his texan accent that's bothering me. It's bad pronounciation, plain and simple. Does he statuate an example?

 

Another concern is the horrible grammar promoted by rappers (among others) - "I learned him one good", is not proper engrish.

 

Of course, it's their "sexist, narcissistic, unconstructive criticism"-attitude that bothers me the most.

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Originally posted by ZePhyR

you're all dumb if you cannot recognize the artistic talent and ability these people have when they do this job.

 

artistic talent? Having some bass booming with some words that make no sense at all (and when they do make sense, it's either "biatch" or "bling bling") is artisic talent? Dear lord, I have seriously been misinformed as to the meaning of artistic talent....

 

Forgive me for not liking big gold teeth. Forgive me for not liking to hear songs about "dubs" and "bitches" and "hoes." :rolleyes:

 

 

Let's see you write raps and make it sound good.

 

 

I don't want to write raps, and the people who do it now do not make it sound good.

 

 

And the complaining about the beats and the music itself is rediculous too, as I and many others enjoy it more than any other type of music.

 

Just because you like doesn't mean we have to. It sucks.

 

Have a nice day :)

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Originally posted by obi-wan13

I don't like Rap mainly because everyone that lives around here finds it "cool" to ride around at 3 in the morning with it blasting.

 

heres what you do drive around at 2 1 the mourning blasting Black Sabbath or something (its what i do! :D)

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Originally posted by XERXES

i absolutely cannot stand rap. I do have the Until the end of Time 2pac cds though, the only rap ill listen to.

 

Word up B! J/k. Tupac is the only rap I like. Other than that..all I like is Rock and country.

 

Like you guys said...all rappers rap about is money and fame and shyt like that....Tupac raps about real life stuff. now thats the kind of music i espect. real life stuff.

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Originally posted by AcrylicGuitar

all I like is Rock and country.

now thats the kind of music i respect. real life stuff.

 

Yeah, country, that's about as real life as it gets...."my girlfriend dumped me and she ran over my dog as she stole my pickup truck...so i'm gonna go drinking with my friends...."...........;)

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Originally posted by ET Warrior

Yeah, country, that's about as real life as it gets...."my girlfriend dumped me and she ran over my dog as she stole my pickup truck...so i'm gonna go drinking with my friends...."...........;)

 

Yep. Its all true life. like..."She thinks my Tractor's Sexy"

 

Now, thats one song I dont get.

I like other country music tho. :)

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Originally posted by ShockV1.89

"Fabolus."

 

Ummm...F-A-B-O-L-O-U-S. :) Yes, I do like rap, but I can see there's absolutely no convincing each other either way. I could ask why do you dumb-ass mother****ers listen to angry druggies who scream incoherent lines to monotonuous strumming of a silly stringed instrument while thrashing their heads in what would surely amount to whiplash. Then, you would call me ignorant for saying that, I would call you ignorant for not liking rap, and on the circle would go. So I'm not going to say that even though I just did. :) My post stands naked and at attention for C'jais' nimble fingers to pick it apart. :)

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I myself is a rap fan. I'm kinda offended to what you guys are saying. Saying that rap has no musical technique or brilliance. Thats just absurd. Ever heard of metaphors, symbolism, and similies, you know like poems. Maybe the reason why it don't make sense to you guys because your mind can't maintain the capacity to understand rap or simply because you can't relate to it. But that doesn't give you the right to discriminate its ideals. Rap is like any other music but it has a different way of expressing and aproaching the situation.

 

Rap deals with artists exposing how they feel about the many aspects, obstacles, and realities in the life of the American man, woman, child, family, or the American society as a whole. So to view the hip hop and rap artistic representation as entirely negative is totally wrong. Not to say that everything is positive about rap, but surely not everything is negative. Any music, literature, film, etc. can be viewed as having negative features, but that doesn't mean the whole industry has negative influences. When thinking about the impact upon kids, not all works of art are meant for all audience ages.

 

When young women and men are exposed to negatives sexual messages or the glorification of a gangstar's life, they're not forced to have to take on that role. Then there are the many artist of hip hop and rap who produce many uplifting and positive songs about love, family, community, respect, etc. The vivid imagery and language of the lyrics, which can express much reality, can be interpreted in many ways, as with anything. Hip hop artist put forth and analyze many important issues in their songs, that we as people are concerned with. Not all hip hop and rap express pimping women and killing. And as said before, hip hop and rap display reality, and unfortunately, such pains and struggles, are apart of life. Then we all have to remember that hip hop and rap are are intended for entertainment listening. Hip hop is a major component within in African American life that can reflect the trials and tribulations of blacks, therefore it should not be viewed as always destroying, because it has reality as substance.

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Then to all the others. You all say that you hate Rap and everything it stands for, but how can you say that? Do you know that Rap once had a big influence on LA?

Ice Cube, Ice T and some others once rapped about Police brutality and so on, because black ppl were treated badly by the police in LA. It all ended up in violent demonstrations and killings, but they got heard, and it has eventually changed.

 

I'm wondering how it 'eventually changed.' I mean, they proved with their demonstrations (which they couldn't even do peacefully) that they need the police to regulate them. And it's not just black people that are treated badly. It's mostly anyone who lives at or under the Poverty level (which, in the US right now, is about $17,000 a year for a family of four).

The reason that the police monitor the low-income neighborhoods is because when you have no money, it's very likely that you'll eventually see crime as your only alternative. Unfortunately, the way the system is set up here, you'd think it'd been designed to keep poor people poor. Now that I think about it, it probably was designed that way.

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Originally posted by -s/<itzo-

I myself is a rap fan. I'm kinda offended to what you guys are saying. Saying that rap has no musical technique or brilliance. Thats just absurd. Ever heard of metaphors, symbolism, and similies, you know like poems.

 

 

Metaphors symbolism and similies has 0% to do with musical technique or brilliance. Anyone can use those without having a lick of musical talent. And i personally don't understand the symbolism, what does killing cops and pimping on the streets symbolize? :confused:;)

 

I just like how punk is upfront with it's message. They don't hide how they're feeling or what they're trying to say. Like anti-flag's "die for your government" or similar such......but that's just me.

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Originally posted by -s/<itzo-

When young women and men are exposed to negatives sexual messages or the glorification of a gangstar's life, they're not forced to have to take on that role. Then there are the many artist of hip hop and rap who produce many uplifting and positive songs about love, family, community, respect, etc.

 

Yes, but those kinds aren't very popular, are they? The public seems to enjoy rap that glorifies the greedy, the violent and the sexually depraved. I turn on BET and MTV and all I see is 50 Cent, Snoop Dogg and Fat Joe rapping about all these things. VH1 seems to be the last bastion of musical decency on television.

 

The vivid imagery and language of the lyrics, which can express much reality, can be interpreted in many ways, as with anything. Hip hop artist put forth and analyze many important issues in their songs, that we as people are concerned with. Not all hip hop and rap express pimping women and killing.

 

As I said before, that is the only type of rap that receives exposure to the public. The popular rappers of today rap about those things and get rich. The formula for a good rap song is to take one part money or "bling bling", another part women or "bitches, biatches, hoes", and a last part of violence or "killin' cuz he wasn't respecting mah muthafukkin chillin'" and you've got yourself a winner. Kids don't listen to "uplifting" and "inspiring" songs. They listen to "I'm into having sex, I ain't into makin' love." Little kids think it's okay to go out and repeat these lyrics, perhaps not knowing that they are degrading women, promoting violence and becoming avaricious and materialistic. More often than not, they will hear the song on the radio and obtain the unedited, uncensored version that they should not be listening to and absorb the full impact of the rapper's violent and unwholesome message.

 

This is not to say that there aren't good rappers out there who are popular. Eminem's "Lose Yourself" is actually quite good. And one of my favorite songs of all time is Cypress Hill's "Rock Superstar". But you don't see rappers like Cypress Hill being as popular as 50 Cent, even though the aforementioned song is gravitas better than anything he has ever rapped.

 

As for myself, I'm more of a Jewel, J-pop, Beatles and U2 fan.

 

*jams to "Help!" by the Beatles*

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Originally posted by ET Warrior

Metaphors symbolism and similies has 0% to do with musical technique or brilliance. Anyone can use those without having a lick of musical talent.

 

Carefully hear what you're saying right now cuz you're not making any sense. I mean what do you think make poems so great, it's the technicality usage of words, metaphors, similies, ect.. You can intrepret the same thing for rapping. And thats what make rapping so great and unique in my ears.

 

And i personally don't understand the symbolism, what does killing cops and pimping on the streets symbolize? :confused:;)

 

I just like how punk is upfront with it's message. They don't hide how they're feeling or what they're trying to say. Like anti-flag's "die for your government" or similar such......but that's just me.

 

Did you ready my whole comment? Please read my last paragraph.

 

You're only emphasizing on the negative aspects. You're classifying rap as what only you see fits. Which is money, violence, drugs, and sex. Which is not the case in alot of songs.

 

If you want me to prove you wrong i can show you dozens of lyrics which represents love, family, community, respect, etc...

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Originally posted by -s/<itzo-

If you want me to prove you wrong i can show you dozens of lyrics which represents love, family, community, respect, etc...

 

Then show me how many of them are played on MTV and BET as compared to their polar opposites.

 

I have nothing against rappers that make such music. I commend them and encourage them to continue to make it. What I think the problem is is that the rappers who rap about money, women and violence lend a bad aura to the entire genre. When people think rap, they think gangsters, prostitutes, drugs and money. They don't think uplifting, harmonious family values. That's where I think most people in this thread who are against rap are coming from. Rappers like 50 Cent and Snoop Dogg give what would be an otherwise entertaining genre a bad name with people.

 

It is not good to generalize all rappers into one category as there are many types, just like it's not good to do the same to rockers for the same reasons. But it is also not okay to condone the music of the "artists" (and I use that term very, very loosely), who rap about things that epitomize the detritus of society. I don't give a rat's ass if you listen to it and like it. I do, however, mind when my 10 year-old cousin is singing to his 5 year-old brother, "Yo mami I got the X if you into doin' drugs."

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Originally posted by -s/<itzo-

Carefully hear what you're saying right now cuz you're not making any sense. I mean what do you think make poems so great, it's the technicality usage of words, metaphors, similies, ect.. You can intrepret the same thing for rapping. And thats what make rapping so great and unique in my ears.

 

The use of words metaphor and whatnot has nothing to do with music.....it has to do with words, english, not musicalness. I'm not saying they have no talent with words and such...i'm sayign they have no musical talent.

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Originally posted by Pedantic

I could ask why do you dumb-ass mother****ers listen to angry druggies who scream incoherent lines to monotonuous strumming of a silly stringed instrument while thrashing their heads in what would surely amount to whiplash.

 

As for metal music, while I do find all their screaming and pompous, "viking morals" lyrics to be quite silly (bordering on pathetic), I can respect their techical brilliance with a guitar and the way they don't stage themselves and generally don't take themselves any more serious than we should.

 

As I said, aesthetics are not meant to be debated. You like the rap music, cool with me.

 

However, notice how all rap lyrics really only include the rapper adressing himself, in the first person singular. It's not about us, it's about him. Him and his conquests. Him being a bad motherf*cker, how he gets all the women and how he hates authority which is ruining his enterprise. Or maybe he flips the bin and decides to tell us about how he had a piss poor childhood, and no one can understand him, or how everyone is out to get him. It doesn't matter - because it's all about him. He doesn't even try to make a plead for others, he doesn't even want to make a decent attempt at actually communicating.

 

In communication, you need an audience, a reciever. Someone who can use your input constructively. Rap has none of that. It's just a guy ranting, in one big, self-staging, hollow, monotonous monologue. There's no constructive criticism in it - only him cursing about society, and how we're all animals at best. But yeah, that's a take on things.

 

To me, of course. But that's just the rap that reaches me, that I judge it upon.

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Seems to me that the reasons most people object to rap music are because of the lyrics and the message they convey, not with the beats or the style of the music. Or at least those are my objections. So don't go defending rap music itself. Defend the lyrics. Defend the message. Show how they're not objectionable and wholly disgusting. Go ahead. 'Tis a challenge.

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The same message can be convey in today's films, literature, etc... but i don't see you guys going against that.

 

We all have to remember that hip hop and rap are intended for entertainment listening. And nowadays sex & violence is what sells. It's mainstream so you can't blame the artist for trying to sell music that the consumers want.

 

 

When thinking about the impact upon kids, not all works of art are meant for all audience ages. It is up to parents and guardians to monitor the enviornment of their children.

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Originally posted by -s/<itzo-

I myself is a rap fan. I'm kinda offended to what you guys are saying. Saying that rap has no musical technique or brilliance. Thats just absurd. Ever heard of metaphors, symbolism, and similies, you know like poems. Maybe the reason why it don't make sense to you guys because your mind can't maintain the capacity to understand rap or simply because you can't relate to it. But that doesn't give you the right to discriminate its ideals. Rap is like any other music but it has a different way of expressing and aproaching the situation.

 

Rap deals with artists exposing how they feel about the many aspects, obstacles, and realities in the life of the American man, woman, child, family, or the American society as a whole. So to view the hip hop and rap artistic representation as entirely negative is totally wrong. Not to say that everything is positive about rap, but surely not everything is negative. Any music, literature, film, etc. can be viewed as having negative features, but that doesn't mean the whole industry has negative influences. When thinking about the impact upon kids, not all works of art are meant for all audience ages.

 

When young women and men are exposed to negatives sexual messages or the glorification of a gangstar's life, they're not forced to have to take on that role. Then there are the many artist of hip hop and rap who produce many uplifting and positive songs about love, family, community, respect, etc. The vivid imagery and language of the lyrics, which can express much reality, can be interpreted in many ways, as with anything. Hip hop artist put forth and analyze many important issues in their songs, that we as people are concerned with. Not all hip hop and rap express pimping women and killing. And as said before, hip hop and rap display reality, and unfortunately, such pains and struggles, are apart of life. Then we all have to remember that hip hop and rap are are intended for entertainment listening. Hip hop is a major component within in African American life that can reflect the trials and tribulations of blacks, therefore it should not be viewed as always destroying, because it has reality as substance.

 

Word! Just about everything you said, is how I feel. I'm glad that you feel the same way that I do.

Luckyli everyone is entitled to his or her oppinion. So now that I've said that, and agreed with the above quote, I'll leave this thread, unless I'm called for :D!

 

-Clemme

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