ET Warrior Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn 2. If they do have enough evidence, why don't they show it to other countries? Because we don't like them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by ckcsaber Where did all of this go?? It must be still there. "You assume too much" -Padme Amidala, TPM. Also from US satellites, we have confirmed that they have "mobile chemical labs". No one's really taking US intelligence serious. You haven't confirmed anything, because of the simple reason that they could be anything, and not nessisarily making of chemical weapons. Also, why do most of their "scientists" refuse to talk, and when they do talk, we have evidence that they lied. What evidence? Perhaps you could source that? This all points to one thing, that Iraq has chemical weapons. "You assume too much" -Nute Gunray, TPM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckcsaber Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Listen JM, the US is going to war. The US has enough evidence to support this war, and the US is going to stop Hussein. Your dislike for America is merely blinding you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Originally posted by ckcsaber Listen JM, the US is going to war. Unfortunatly, yes. The US has enough evidence to support this war, Then why won't they show it? Please tell me that. and the US is going to stop Hussein. Stop Hussein from what? Your unconditional trust to your president is merely blinding you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CagedCrado Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Bush is a wimp but he knows what is the right thing to do unlike FRANCE. I request a burning french flag emoticon. :usa: :usa: :usa: Its only not evidence since you wont accept it, it truly is the right thing to do and you are morons for stalling it. Long live USA DIE FRANCE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by CagedCrado Bush is a wimp but he knows what is the right thing to do unlike FRANCE. I request a burning french flag emoticon. :usa: :usa: :usa: Its only not evidence since you wont accept it, it truly is the right thing to do and you are morons for stalling it. Long live USA DIE FRANCE! Good job, CagedCrado, you have now become the strongest canidate for the LF Imatureness Price 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn Good job, CagedCrado, you have now become the strongest canidate for the LF Imatureness Price 2003. dont you meant he LF Idiocy Prize? cuz if so then i second the nomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CagedCrado Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 The anti war bs is just a ploy by europeans who gave iraq something or own an oil field there and they dont want us to find it. The US anti war protest bs is the democratic party and its long lengths of stupid things that really help nobody and greatly supress minorities. Im just stating the other side of the story and you dont like it. I can be patriotic and support my country as i know going to war with iraq is the right thing to do and i KNOW that we should. I know that there isnt any proof of saddams weapons but he has gassed his own people and is a threat to the region. He is an insane lunatic. Saddam hussein is not a good person, has no ideas of morals and cannot be trusted. Margaret Thatcher who was one prime minister of england said he couldnt be trusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Bush cant be trusted either( the US for that matter) the US government has done some bad crap too. my grandfather was ordered to fire upon his own troops. by the president. in the gulf war my uncle recieved the same order. they both disobeyed the order and were sent to trial after the trial was dismissed they were sworn to secrecy but of course with this big of info who would be silent my uncle was also ordered to fire mortars into civilian inhabited areas. i saw videos his friend took while the war was going on so i know what war looks like. the civilian kills totally outweighed the military kills. many of the civilians killed (by american troops) were women and children. not to mention women were raped and beaten by many military troops and members these troops werent even sent to a trial. and you say that america is good and just. you sir are the ****ing idiot. you are ignorant you are a blubbering oaf who doesnt even deserve the right to free speech its people like you that make this world hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CagedCrado Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Bush seems to be one of the nicest politicians that i have ever seen. He truly is a wimp but he is trying to do the right thing. Hes not thinking of just himself like others are, a war with iraq will liberate millions of people, i know atleast 6 million people in israel will live in assurance that they wont get gassed. Not to mention kurds and other people who are raped, beaten, torchered, and live in fear of saddam in iraq. We need to atleast disarm and stop saddam from hurting his own people. Also you realize that if saddam gassed people using a large amount of gas or used a nuclear weapon, that the affects of the weapon could be blown on the wind to areas in europe and asia, possibly the united states. Saddam has the power to kill millions, no billions. He has enough gas to kill everyone in the entire world. If thats not reason enough to stop him in any way possible (even war), then i dont know what could possibly make you go to war. I know people who fought in world war two and korea, and they think it is the right thing to do. (theyve seen it before, what waiting can do... Anyone know Hitler?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Torque Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by C'jais Actually, this is on topic. We're pointing out why there's no need to support your president. Unless you refute our arguments, you really have no case of supporting him, unless we're talking blind patriotism. Now C'Jais. Im not being rude, but i would like to say shut the h*** up. Your being an uptight jerk. Everything that we Bush supporters say you always have some answer that half that time you make up as you go. Your saying all these bad points about my post and half of them are completely random and false. And to Qui Gon i made a mistake. There are 300,000,000 million people in the US. I was thinking of something else. Also im not gonna sit here and listen to all youre negative bull crud C'Jais. Half of youre statistics have been proved wrong by the CIA website. Dont go thinking that all youre facts are correct because they arent correct. This greta deppresion stuff you say affected the whole world is correct, but a trust worthy website states that the great depression barely affected France and many neighboring countries. So in political terms youre wrong. Also JM Qui Gon you want evidence. How bout the tapes of Sadam killing innocent christians and 17 empty warheads. Also a great comment my dad made. Many countries did not believe that Hitler was massacering thousands of jews. They thought the us was just trying to cause major problems. Look what happened when countries like France found this out they were mortified. So USA isnt always trying to cause major problems. The same thing is happening right now. Why is Tony Blaire supporting us. Because he knows what has happened with Sadam that most of you wouldnt even think of having happen. Also the famous talk show host Micheal Savage is showing on his show the uncut videos of Sadam's killing habbits. They are horriblw and grusom. Now all you non USA people you have no clue how we feel about 9/11. Also C'Jais why are you saying that we say no ther country is good. I know of countries that have better things than we do, but i did not mention them, dont get me wrong, i think america is pretty crappy right now. And that we have a round a $3 trillion (i think:p)debt. Also back to Qui Gons statement of the time period of Rome. The story of Romulus and Remus dates back to 745 BC. Then in 1495 the seljuk turks invaded and destroyed the last part of the 2 roman empires Constantinople. Do the math 1000-745 then the total +1495. You get somewhere around 1700. Hmmmmm more than 1000 years. Hows do ya like that. And Wui Gon again. We show trust to Bush, because he is a great man, of intellegence. Even though he has rough time with spelling you cant tell me that he is a a stupid idiot and he doesnt know wht he is doing. thats bull crud. And JM youre the one saying that i say other countries are stupid and dumb look back at your post to ckc. You said no one trusts america how do you know give me evidence. O holy hipocrite. And JM will there ever be enough evidence to convince you or are you gonna always thin kthat there is not enough? And JM again you said we havent found any chemical evidnece. What in the heck are 17 empty warheads are doing lying around in Iraq, do you think some teens just found empty warheads and put them in Iraq soil for fun:rolleyes: . You really gotta thin kabout your facts before you go blurting about how great and perfect your country is. i know you stated that thats not true but you keep on going on to the fact that it is perfect. Imagine being a president you would pee in your pants if you had this tough decision. Also the bible states that war is not murder, but murder is war. Also i suggest that you guys read the bible becaus eyou obviously have a problem with trust. And JM again you keep on saying that im immature, well if i am how come i can write this much about my opinion at the age 12. I cleary thin kno one here is inmature, and i think everyone is fit to debate here, and you ahve position to say that they cant. Please send me a pic of your faces when you find out that Sadam does have weapons of mass destruction. You will then come to think that America isnt making this stuff up. We are being honest. And why is it so bad to boast about our nations qualities. It is our right as humans to be thankful for what are ancestors did to give us freedom. And i do recognize that French forces did play a major role in the the 1770's especially at the war of gettysburg. I never said they didnt you jsut assumed. And yes to the person who mentioned that this should be a bush supporters only thread. Look at the thread title. Bush my president. Not Bush yes or no. And how come it seems that all you non bush people can never come up with a good arguement, you are always saying WHY WHY WHY. Cant you guys have a good counter arguement. Its like im getting feed back from a 7 year old. You always say. Where is the evidence, why dou you trust him, cant you state your opinion in a way that doesnt include the word where or why in every sentence. I dont know if its becaus eyou yourselves are to inmature to right write something worth reading or you just dont have the skill to write a political issue reply. Im not flaming anyone here, and i plan not to. If you totally hate my guts and think im a stupid twit. PM me and i will gladly debate with you. Please in the future non-bush people dont always come to the conclusion that we are lying . Because we arent and there would be no point. Also stop saying that bush is stupid and dumb. You cant have these qualities and become a president. It doesnt work like that. And all you people who think C'Jais should run for president even if youre just kidding. Call me when you reach the point in your life when reality smacks you over the head with a stick. C'Jais is a great debater, but no offense to C' Jais he would be a horrible president. He doesnt thin kamerica has bravery honor and liberty in itself. Any president who doesnt beleive america has these qualities should go back to where they came from and be a presidnet there. because i assure you he would only get votes form pot heads and people who vote just for kicks. A small majority of the American vote. And possibley you people who have not yet experienced realities left hook. Be safe, and dont be stupid -Father Torque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by CagedCrado Bush seems to be one of the nicest politicians that i have ever seen. He truly is a wimp but he is trying to do the right thing. Hes not thinking of just himself like others are, a war with iraq will liberate millions of people, i know atleast 6 million people in israel will live in assurance that they wont get gassed. Not to mention kurds and other people who are raped, beaten, torchered, and live in fear of saddam in iraq. We need to atleast disarm and stop saddam from hurting his own people. Also you realize that if saddam gassed people using a large amount of gas or used a nuclear weapon, that the affects of the weapon could be blown on the wind to areas in europe and asia, possibly the united states. Saddam has the power to kill millions, no billions. He has enough gas to kill everyone in the entire world. If thats not reason enough to stop him in any way possible (even war), then i dont know what could possibly make you go to war. I know people who fought in world war two and korea, and they think it is the right thing to do. (theyve seen it before, what waiting can do... Anyone know Hitler?) first of all he doesnt have that kind of weapon power. second he doesnt have nuclear capability. he may have nuclear facilities but none powerful enough to even make a megaton a bomb. third i doubt you even care about israels people. you didnt seem to show up when the palestine war started (it was only a few months ago). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 I've been sticking to my Subscribed Threads and missed this one for a couple of days. I haven't yet waded through the several pages of posts, but I had to stop at yours. Originally posted by Father Torque "There is no evidence on any weapons in Iraq. 17 empty nuclear warheads found. Ring a bell in yo ear people. You cant sit here and tell me that some idiots from who nows where found empty warheads and his them in Iraq. They were warheads. They were not designated as nuclear. If anything, they were capable of carrying the type of chemical weapons that about 16 other nations have in their arsenals. Originally posted by Father Torque Look at you guys you sit at your computer all day at a forum which will never have you succed to anything. You have no responsiblity. Definately not true in my case. I wish it were. I've a feeling that statement rings true in less forum members than you believe. Originally posted by Father Torque He has to handle Millions of people. Do you think he wants war. Yes. For him it appears to be ego. His place in history. Setting an historical precedence that will be revered for all time. Originally posted by Father Torque And on 9/11. What does this crap mean. Oh he doesnt care about anything woe is me, he is a horrible president because he cant say, "w". Bush continually evokes 9/11 to justify his actions. This dishonors the lives lost and their survivors. Bush has squandered away the good will given to us by the rest of the world that was sympathetic to us after the attack. From my perspective, that's a betrayal. Originally posted by Father Torque But when ya think about it, how did we become a nation. Britan didnt just say ok sure that cool. There was WAR. And after we secured the Colonies from our former King who didn't have the foresight to place a strong military in the New World, we turned to the indigenous people whom we conquered and then we built a nation. A great one. What's done is done, but we have to keep this in mind as we trod forth. Originally posted by Father Torque And now is not the time to win with words because words dont work in the real world. Words go a long way to making change. Especially if they are said in unison by enough people. Words can educate and invigorate. Words can aggitate and irritate as well. Words are essential to getting what we want in a democratic-republic. Originally posted by Father Torque You have to go through pain sometimes to get what you want. Also would you rather have the USA die and have your 2 friends live or have America 600+ million people live and have 2 friends risk there lives. Do the math i hope you get the right answer. The United States of America is NOT at risk. Saddam has NO nuclear weapons. Even if he had couple, he would have no way to deliver it nor would he chance it. The same applies to the chemical weapons he is sure to have. If he utilized them, then the world would be justified in dealing with him. This should've been done the last times he used them, which weren't even during the last decade or two, but the world chose not to do so. Originally posted by Father Torque He is an impecable president and i dont think ANYONE can give me an INTELEGENT reason on why he is a bad president. 1) He lied to the citizens of Texas. I voted for him for governor because he stated in the campaign that he intended to be governor not a presidential candidate. A few months later, it came out that much of his gubanatorial campaign money came from the Calif. Republican Party. Shortly after that, he announced his candidacy for President. 2) It was confirmed that Bush knew about the likelihood of attacks by terrorist hijaking airliners to collide with buildings prior to 9-11-01. Little was done to prevent or deter this. 3) The entire world was behind the United States and our decision to deal with the Taliban. We lost nearly all of that world support with the unilateral decision of the Bush administration to invade Iraq 4) The U.S. economy is tanking. Billions of dollars will have to be spent on a war with Iraq in addition to the billions already spent. Billions, if not trillions, of dollars will be needed to rebuild Iraq. European nations are not likely to pitch in if they don't agree to invade. 5) The Bush administration's own advisors in the State Department have indicated that establishment of a democracy in Iraq is an unlikely and unrealistic prospect. Yet, Bush drives forward with his desire to change the regime. 6) The precedent of Pre-emptive war will enable other countries to attack each other because they feel threatened. 7) The United States squashed a country (Afganistan) from only the air. This is unequaled power that make the rest of the world nervous. A pre-emptive invasion, one that doesn't catch Saddam in the act of atrocity, will instill fear in many throughout the world. Some will react as scared people do... they will lash out. 8) Bush referred to North Korea as a "regional problem" instead of a world problem. Ironically, N. Korea possesses the technology to hit the western, possibly the mid-western, United States with a missile. This of course means that any of a dozen or so friendly countries and U.S. interests are vunerable as well. 9) Every indication is that Bush's referrence to N. Korea as an "axis of evil" began the negative posture they've taken as a response. In essence, they took that statement to mean "you're next." 10) As an insider and part owner of Harken Energy Corp., Bush failed to disclose a significant sale of stock in a timely manner to the SEC. A no-no that even amateur stock traders would avoid. Bush claimed it was an oversight. It was definately that or intentional. I say this, if intentional it proves he's crooked. If an oversight, it proves he's incompetent. No President is perfect. There are always faults. But to not have a cabinet balance, or allow the other branches to balance, his faults is betrayal to the American people. This is our country and he works for us. Yet he continually speaks of "his decision" to go to war and "my government" in his speaches. He condemns the voice of the people by stating that the protests against unneeded war are "insignificant." Bush is far from "impecable." That much is fact. He's incompetent. That much is opinion, but I predict the next election will bear that out to be true. Originally posted by Father Torque If no war. Sadam will nuke us all kill 6 billion people and the earth will be no more. This is far beyond his capability. It's even far beyond the capability of Kim Jung Il, who has disclosed an active nuclear weapons program. India and Pakistan are far more dangerous due to their proximity to each other, their discontent with each other, and the instability of their governments. They have prolific nuclear weapons programs. Originally posted by Father Torque Are you willing to distor gods great creation for your benefit i hope not. Man made the world the complex, competitive and hateful bubble of air in the galaxy. Not some undisclosed diety. Originally posted by Father Torque I would rather die than see 6 billion people die. As would I. But that's not the issue in the question of Iraq. Much of the American public is being duped by a President that wants nothing more than to establish an aristocratic power base. We rebelled against that in the 1700's... we sure as hell don't need it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CagedCrado Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 1. The united states cares plenty about israel.... we try to help them become peaceful with palestine and we support a palestinian state as well as israel living in peace, that would be a good thing for them. 2. Iraq does have that kind of power and they will have nuclear weapons. they had many thousands of gallons of chlorine gas, mustard gas and anthrax. And they still do as theyve been making it, hiding it, and turning over old weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by CagedCrado 1. The united states cares plenty about israel.... we try to help them become peaceful with palestine and we support a palestinian state as well as israel living in peace, that would be a good thing for them. 2. Iraq does have that kind of power and they will have nuclear weapons. they had many thousands of gallons of chlorine gas, mustard gas and anthrax. And they still do as theyve been making it, hiding it, and turning over old weapons. bull**** i have seen no evidence to support this. second ive seen videos and pictures of their ENTIRE nuclear facilities they dont have that kind of power. oh and if they did guess who taught them how to make that stuff. thats right AMERICA the "greatest" country in the world:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by ckcsaber America plans to take Iraq out completly. They will not leave Iraq behind with any form of retaliation. There is no doubt as to the ability of the United States military in its ability to decimate the Iraqi military and civilian infrastructure. That can, and probably will, be done with a terrible swiftness. But then what? That's the problem with my fellow countrymen who just blindly support the Bush administration. Rather than think for themselves, they'd rather just buy into whatever seems easy. But that's the beauty of a good scam-artist. Bush can shuck and jive with the best and sell them on what he wants them to see. He makes no mention of the fact that his own people are advising that replacing Saddam with a democratic leader is not realistic. He makes no mention of the billions, possibly trillions, of dollars that will go into rebuilding the Iraqi infrastructure. He makes no mention of the ability to control whether oil will be represented by the dollar or the Euro by merely rebuilding and controlling the Iraqi Oilfields. He makes no mention of the fact that Europe is unlikely to assist in financing the reconstruction of Iraq post-war. He makes no mention of the fact that Iraq will have to be occupied for many, many years by the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Torque Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by SkinWalker 2) It was confirmed that Bush knew about the likelihood of attacks by terrorist hijaking airliners to collide with buildings prior to 9-11-01. Little was done to prevent or deter this. What could we have done. he knew there was tention between the US and Afghanistan. He had no clue though that they would bomb the two towers. If he knew it he would have done something. It basically sounds like you guys think he hates the world and its inhabbitants. That isnt true. Yes we could have boosted security, and what not. But the tradjedy would have still occured. Hundreds of Muslim lookin people travel on planes every day. We cant do searches on only Muslims because we would be charged for Racism:rolleyes: . They had box cutters. They could have put them in their shoes for heaven sake. President Bush had no way of stoping the attacks. He could havenotified the UN on the matter. If he really knew about the events or not. Im leaning toward the fact that he didnt know, since I tend to stick on the republican side of the arguements. I dont believe Bush would have done such a thing. How do you know that he knew, it could have been a rumor, like many other political matters. Also I have a question who would you have wanted to be president out of the 3 candidates. Not including John mcCain and that other guy. I certainly would not want Al Gore. Ralph Nader had some good and bad points. George Bush had good points and experience from his father George Bush Sr. Who I think was also a great president. What would Al Gore or Ralph Nader do in these situations. And on the gas matter. Iraq is not a key supplier of oil right now. We are leaning on Texas for our oil suppy. We have many other allies that will help us with oil supply problems. We dont need Iraq's oil. But in these times of uncertanty, getting shipments of oil from them is not a good idea. -Father Torque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by Darth Groovy war.... "Whoo-ah! What is it good for?.... Absolutely nothing!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Torque Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by SkinWalker That's the problem with my fellow countrymen who just blindly support the Bush administration. Rather than think for themselves, they'd rather just buy into whatever seems easy. But that's the beauty of a good scam-artist. Bush can shuck and jive with the best and sell them on what he wants them to see. Well i have to disagree, you rfellow countrymen can think for themselves, they have the freedom too. Nobody is forcing them to believe anyone. Bush is saying join me or die, he is basically asking for support outside of the US. He has the right and authority to do so. So if youre countrymen cant thin kfor themselves then there are obviously problems with them. No offense:) PS. Even though war is good for something. Its good for the winning country. I love that song byWAR its one of most favoritst bands:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by Father Torque Bush is saying join me or die you are corrct sir. FT makes a good point:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Torque Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by InsaneSith you are corrct sir. FT makes a good point:) Dammit you know i screwed up. I meant Bush isnt saying Join me or die. Ill get you back Insane:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 well i guess. but hes ok but i still dont like him. i just dont like his policies well except for the social security and plans for the elderly those are all that i like but you know why he made those right? cuz hes gettin old and he needs free plans for when hes outta the white house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by {BK}SupremePain ARRGGHHH! this is anoying i REALY dont hope this the typical americans opinion.... is it? Obi-wan13 and I disagree (if memory serves correct) on the Iraq issue, but I didn't see anything "annoying" about his post. In spite of our disagreements, I have a large amount of respect for Obi because he doesn't stoop to the levels that some others tend to (including myself from time-to-time). Obi-wan13 was right. The U.S. is a world power. We do have the right to be proud of our accomplishments. Most, if not all, nations of the world have made their mistakes in the past.... especially the U.S. and the U.K. We've got to see past the nationalism, ethnocentrism and the emotion and see the logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by ET Warrior The thing that I dont think people seem to care about, is the fact that probably none of us know 1/100th of the stuff Bush knows about this war and Iraq. Which could also be as effective an argument for not going to war. See an earlier post of mine about what Bush is not telling us. You might not know 1/100th ... but I tend to think I'm getting more informed everyday. The more information I get, the less I like what I see. Perhaps I should've remained ignorant. Tell me.... is it bliss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Originally posted by XWING5 I probably won't be on a plane overseas anytime real soon, but I do wish all the best to those who are already there (I wish I could be there with them) When/if you go: keep the sand out of your m16 and your canteen full; Be mindful of the chemlight colored scorpions that like to get under rolled up cammo nets. Good luck and come home safe! Hoo-ah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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