SettingShadow Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by griff38 And the text in the shots looks Deutch or Danish? Cause its from a german pc magazine called gamestar I don't mean any disrespect but, since when does LucasArts beta test there? Now I dont know anything about this gamestar but apparently (from what I've seen in this thread) they seem to be very good at getting info on games first... I personnly think its for real. And if it is, I hope Mon Calamari is one of the selectable races... and if it's a fake... I BOMB GAMESTAR!! j/k Originally said by Han Solo C'mon lets keep a little optimistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlzWisHum Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by Sivy B depends, they could of started doing it awhile ago. Maybe, I dunno. But on this fall with only 60 % done? Even working 8 hours/day it doens't seem real to me. With beta testing, and post production and all... The site/game mag review also points out something weird on this: "And here comes the best part: According to Raven, JK III is 60% done, including story, scripts and levels. So, if everything goes well, you will be able to play it this fall!" Doesn't they usually lay out the whole thing before even bothering coding it? Maybe bad translation on this, or maybe they're using another technique since they already have a good engine, but... This is one of those rare times I wish I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LorD_BaZ Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 You know with all these cries of hoax/not hoax/april fools. Why did no-one think to actually check ravens website. I found this on the forums, in about five seconds. Hint: http://www.ravensoft.com Rickmus, Senior Programmer of Raven Software says: It is real - not an April Fools joke... [/Quote] Maybe ChangKhan can confirm or deny this statment, Although I kinda think it is real. Also, Activision/Lucasarts DID announce the game last month. Now Gamestar have some more news, and most of the time they are gamestar do get it right. and finally: Who cares what engine it is, as long as the game is GOOD. Hell I'd play it if it used the Doom engine (The 1993 engine for those not so fast ) and the game was fun to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorII Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN] ... Er, cropped for length. Okay, then. Other than the comment about the ... not a business model I can't say I can argue with that. I never heard of any follow ups on the animation source, and so was going blind on that... and well, I guess I look like an ass not realizing that the Q3 engine saves a pass by rendering the dynamic lighting coupled in with other things. I did figure (But don't think I really got it across) that if it wasn't something as "simple" as opening up the code, and switching the GL function, it would require something like rewriting the renderer, but realized that as far as anyone was concerned, (Lucas Arts, and you Raven folks) it wouldn't be worth the effort. I hope I don’t come off as a total ass when I say that I don’t think JK2 was exactly made in mind for major mods, or even real single player mods, hence the lack of any SP code being released (which I figured wasn't Raven's call but again probably didn't make that clear). So with that in mind, I mean, it wouldn't be worth rewriting just so you could have a few dark places lit with a saber. Still, it was a thought, and I am glad to hear that it was actually looked into. On top of that, it makes me feel a bit better about other games using the Quake3 engine, knowing that they probably did look into that. Again, I am glad to hear about the animation thing though, I was under the impression that it wasn't even considered, as again I hadn't seen any follow-ups on modeling sites. (Such as Polycount, where I heard about the problem to begin with.) I suppose I can't argue with it just being too much of an in-house tool, I have seen things that border on those lines for Homeworld. Honestly, I never expected the post to be read by anyone, especially not from Raven, let alone for someone from Raven to actually address the things I mentioned. As far as the Single Player code being released, I suppose that might be a bit much, especially from Lucas Art’s point of view with a licensed product such as JK2. But I guess we sort of see the idea of mods a bit differently. Lucas Arts and your self might see them as totally free games that can only hurt the long-term finances with sequels, I see them as a way to hook people into the game even if they weren’t gung-ho for the main game it self. I hate, (and trust me, I really do) to bring up Half-Life, but just imagine how many people bought it just to play mods, of course Sierra quickly picked up on it, and began to squeeze for all it was worth, but it worked. Although it may not be the best of examples, due to it only having multiplayer, but if it weren’t for mods, I wouldn’t have purchased Quake3. I see some really ambitious mods being made for JK2 as it is, and I can’t commend the people enough, but I can see, and at times read about the problems they are having. I suppose though, much of them revolve around new weapon code, and animations. Again, I see them as life extenders, but I don’t know “the plan” for the series, and I suppose if JK3 is “supposed” to be finished within the next year, the need for community made life extenders, might be seen as things that might prevent people from buying JK3. I can only see what the public sees, so when I formed the ideas that I wrote just the other day, I had no idea of what “the plan” was. Why let people make competition to a game you want out just a year and a half later? -- I could be waaaay off on a few things, and I am sure at a few points I sound/read like an ass... it really isn’t supposed to be so. Honestly, I am just glad to actually have answers from someone who is actually inside, and I thank you for that. My issues were addressed, and although I think there might be a little room for ideological arguments on the single player code issue, I think I can safely concede my issues. It is nice to see that I wasn’t really crazy, and you guys (and gals) did look into them during and after development. Sure it sounds all corny and such, but keep up the good work. I’m looking forward to both projects in development at Raven, assuming that Activision’s slip, wasn’t just a setup for an elaborate multi-corporation April Fools joke. Thanks, Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by LorD_BaZ You know with all these cries of hoax/not hoax/april fools. Why did no-one think to actually check ravens website. I found this on the forums, in about five seconds. Hint: http://www.ravensoft.com Maybe ChangKhan can confirm or deny this statment, Although I kinda think it is real. Hehe, yes, check this thread: http://forums.ravensoft.com/ib/ikonboard.pl?;act=ST;f=7;t=19292;hl=jedi+knight+3 Or maybe he was joking too MAYBE IT'S ONE BIG CONSPIRACY!! AAAAARGH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LorD_BaZ Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Yup, that is the thread I was referring to. That's why I asked the guy from raven who posted in this thread to make a statement on it that comment as well, just in case. I fully believe that JK3 is real and rickmus was not joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by Jolts This is just how I feel about games, I hate to see jedi fans keep getting ripped in this genre of gaming. I also agree that graphics are an important element to any game, but if you feel that JO and the JK series in general is ripping people off, I fear that you will always be disappointed... Originally posted by Valcron Is this **** still using the Quake 3 engine? If it is, that sucks, it's time to move away from that crap... This ****? I think JK3 will probably be better than ****. And moving from one engine to another is not like changing a pair of pants. Apart from the financial investment in paying for the license of the engine, there are all the tools and knowledge developed for that engine. Switching to a new engine can be a huge undertaking. Originally posted by wassup Why don't everyone stop dissing the Quake 3 engine and start some real discussion about JKIII. It seems nowadays, after the WOW factor is over, people turn to ranting... Ah, welcome to the boards known as Lucasforums! Ranting is a way of life around here Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN] We did release multiplayer. Welcome back to the boards and thanks for explaining that Frankly, you guys have gone above and beyond the call of duty in terms of helping out the community. It is appreciated, even if all you see around here are rants. Originally posted by T-Dogg Children, children... Read what Mike said again. Count how many times he mentions "JK3". That's right, he doesn't say ANYTHING concerning the assumed sequel, he only comments on the structure of the engine concerning lighting and the MP source code and stuff they released for development for JO. Don't get me wrong, I want this thing to be true as much as you do, but just because ChangKHAN was here commenting on the engine and the development tools of JO doesn't mean it is true! While there may infact not be a new game in the works, the fact that Mike didn't mention it means nothing. Since there has been no official announcement from Lucasarts, he will be legally obligated not to say anything. Originally posted by AlzWisHum Even working 8 hours/day it doens't seem real to me. With beta testing, and post production and all... LOL, 8 hours a day? I assume you don't work in the gaming or software industry. Try 12 to 14 hours a day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlzWisHum Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by Prime <snip> LOL, 8 hours a day? I assume you don't work in the gaming or software industry. Try 12 to 14 hours a day... Yes I am (my games aren't, of course, that good though, all kept in my humble budget, zero that is ). And I am also a general software programmer by trade. When every person works up to 12-14 hours on something per day, you got yourself a bad project leadership, doen't matter how tight is the schedule, unless you're paying Ferraris in custom. Keep in mind that if your programmers (and in games we're talking about teams sometimes) are stressed as hell they'll come out with zip, will make more mistakes, and occasionally try to kill each other... It's still unreal (not the game ) sorry, 40 % in 6 or 7 months is a real underestimation of the difficulty of that task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Clod Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Hmm... looks legit to me... however it does look very similar to JK2... from those shots it looks more like JK2.5... perhaps its an expansion pack? Either way I don't mind, just as long as they aren't my tusken raiders or spacermonkeys twilek in those shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by AlzWisHum It's still unreal (not the game ) sorry, 40 % in 6 or 7 months is a real underestimation of the difficulty of that task. Er...you do know that Jedi Outcast took just over a year from start to finish to complete, don't you? They also knocked out Heretic II in a very short time. Keep in mind that Raven have a team of over 70 people, usually working on 3 projects at a time...so they would probably allocate 20-25 people to each project when it's in full swing. That's 200 man-hours per day...and over the course of 6 months you're talking 36,500 man hours. Considering they would be building on the work they already did for Jedi Outcast in terms of engine modification, a further 6 or 7 months of development time doesn't sound unrealistic to me. As far as using the Q3:TA engine goes...they have a wealth of experience using it. Switching to another engine as a development platform takes time in getting your team up to speed with all it's nuances. As for using something like the Unreal engine...they would have to have a very good reason to make the $500,000 dollar licensing fee investment, and be willing to spend additional time and resources in training their staff to use it effectively, and then have to modify it anyway to suit their particular needs. That's a huge chunk of time...and time is money. That is one of the reasons why I think Quake IV is going to take them longer than usual to develop...because they have probably allocated a chunk of the team to gen-up on the new DOOM engine. Meanwhile they still have to make games to pay their way. It makes sense to build on what you already have...but try to push your existing engine to the limits of what it can possibly do by continually modifying it. As I've said before, I'm not necessarily a fan of the Q3 tech...it seems to have a lot of inherent problems that require work-arounds. Other engines do have better capabilities, and I do think that Q3 is approaching the end of it's useful shelf-life for high-profile titles. I'll frankly be very interested to see what Raven can achieve by tweaking the new DOOM engine to meet their requirements... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saient Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I think its quite a sad factor that the gaming public demands an engine upgrade for a sequal these days "OMG JK3 more like JK2.5 cause JK3 would use a different engine" that kinda crap Why not, if JKII came out a year after quake3 was released and we were on JK4 right now and still on the quake3 engine, I wouldn't care one bit. The fact of the matter is, Im still using my computer that I upgraded to get some performance out of quake3 just a new graphics card cause I fried 2 geforce 1's 800 Mhz, 256Ram and a Geforce4 Ti-4200 (total crap) 125 frames Per Second on Quake3 and in SP and MP JK2 it drops to about 15-20 and maxes out on 60FPS Same engine? I don't think so, Modified Engine Yeah Raven has alot of experience with Quake3 engine so why upgrade and to what engine? UT2K??? why bother paying out for another engine, thats less not as good as the doom3 engine?? which they'll be using later for quake4? so here's what I say, If your not satisfied with the Quake3 Engine or its games anymore, don't buy them just be quietly disapointed that raven is making JK3 that don't reach your standards, heh I won't care I'll be playing it so insulting the quake3 engine is insulting Id's work on making it, and creating quake3 and insulting Ravens hard work in modifing it to bring you great games like SOF2 and JO and I really hope they decide to go with the name Jedi Knight 3 and maybe they'll start a trend of standalone sequal products like the did in the old days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangKhan Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by Anakin You never sent me the files like you said you would of done, so I couldnt do anything with it. I wasn't, personally, the one who was trying to work with modders in respect to making custom animations, so I doubt I promised anyone I'd send them that 700MB of anim data... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangKhan Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by RaptorII I hope I don’t come off as a total ass when I say that I don’t think JK2 was exactly made in mind for major mods, or even real single player mods Nah, I understand, you made some very good points. Believe me, I believe in mods, that's how I got into the business - I made Doom and Quake mods and submitted them to Raven as a sort of resume and got hired... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Here, ChangKhan[RAVEN], have some credits... Programmers need to eat and drink sometimes too right??? Now go ahead and make me a cool sequel, worthy to the Star Wars saga. I don't care what engine, it's just that I can't get enough of SW gaming!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hekx Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Is Kyle going to replaced by a female twi'lek padawan, or do you create your own player for SP and MP? It would be nice if SP and MP combat were similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirrer Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 do i have to reply \_/? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by AlzWisHum Yes I am (my games aren't, of course, that good though, all kept in my humble budget, zero that is ). And I am also a general software programmer by trade. When every person works up to 12-14 hours on something per day, you got yourself a bad project leadership, doen't matter how tight is the schedule, unless you're paying Ferraris in custom. Keep in mind that if your programmers (and in games we're talking about teams sometimes) are stressed as hell they'll come out with zip, will make more mistakes, and occasionally try to kill each other... It's still unreal (not the game ) sorry, 40 % in 6 or 7 months is a real underestimation of the difficulty of that task. I am a hobbiest programmer myself and a professional software designer as well. Certainly, most software projects aren't planned to have people working ridiculous hours, but sometimes due to problems and deadlines, these hours cannot be avoided. But your point about planning is well taken I know that in general game programmers (who are usually younger and probably single) tend to work more hours than your standard software guy. Sleeping in the office, etc. is not all that uncommon. Indeed, it is not a lifestyle that people can handle forever... Originally posted by Hèekx Nòoxuú Is Kyle going to replaced by a female twi'lek padawan, or do you create your own player for SP and MP? According to the reports, you will be able to create your own character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I wonder how they are going to handle cutscenes, I mean; in JO you here "Kyle, what's your current position?" (or something similar, can't think of an example now). When your're able to create your own character, how can they make cutscenes?? And they'll have to make both male and female sounds, think of all the lines those poor voiceactors must record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khlaw Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 The same way they do EVERY cutscene in any game with customizable characters. By not making your character speak, and referring to your character as you/him/her/it Or... good ol' fashioned TEXT, like the rest of the lazy companies!! You can't spell every crazy name someone makes up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happydan Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 they should make a synthesised realtime voice so its adaptable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryudom Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 khlaw? lol. i like text heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSurfer Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Like in Counter Strike, make using your microphone possible. Very good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Oh well I think voicecomm should be standard in all the games, Valve really did a good job with the voicecomm in HL / CS / DoD etc But I don't think it will be important for JK3 (or any JK game), since it's a pretty individual game, even in CTF... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeTRiTiC-iQ Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN] We did release multiplayer. Single player was not released, but that's not our decision, it's not our game, it's LucasArts. But, I have to say, I agree with their decision. You don't release a game then release all the source for the entire game so people can make their own game for free. That's just not a sane business model... You say that you don't want people making free games, as its not a good business model. But the JK2 EULA states that any modification or released level for the game becomes property of Raven/LEC (can't remember the exact wording). So even if we actually managed to make a competitive total conversion, you can seize its assets at any time you want. A more intriguing implication of your comment, is that Raven or LEC are actually worried about the financial consequences of letting a few kids who have NEVER MET play around with a game and try and make an enjoyable mod. If the aforementioned companies are so convinced that is a valid concern, they really need to reassess their quality standards. Besides, an SDK isn't the source code to the entire game. We wouldn't have access to the original Quake 3 engine code, or any of the additions Raven made. We would have the same kind of limitations as the multiplayer SDK. Afterall its not exactly within our power to release a standalone multiplayer game either. From past information Its obvious that you wanted to release as much as possible for modders, but the reasoning behind being unable to has generally not made a lot of sense. Especially when other gaming companies have made their fortune from making games easy to mod. Look at Half Life, a pretty good singleplayer game, boring multiplayer, yet many years later its still getting sales and that's thanks to the wealth of mods available. These days its more likely that you're committing financial suicide by not making a game easy to mod. Anyway, that's my two shiny pennies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreepingDeathNL Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Only a couple of hours left till April 1st! Soon we'll know what all the hooplah is about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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