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Well, considering none of this means anything unless it's properly tested, I would suggest finding a place to mention it. And, Raven doesn't need testers? lmao... that must be why jk2 was royally ****ed with 2 different patches then, eh? If jk3 isn't tested, I'm not even going to buy the damned thing. Planetside's looking good enough for me...

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Something that I think should be mentioned in the document is that saber auto-blocking needs to be reduced. I think you should have to be facing in the general direction of the person attacking you/incoming blasterfire in order to succesfully defend yourself. This is not the case in the current version of JO.

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Or u could have the blocking chance dependent on your aim relative to your opponent ......... ho well that s exactly what does promod :rolleyes:


I would also suggest that people who seriously want to make suggestions about gameplay to try and play for some time this mod if they didn t ......... it came a long way and was tested extensively by competitive players


Btw, perfect blocking arc of 90 degree is as dumb as perfect blocking from ANY side.......if u can t aim in a 90 degree arc, then u re wasting your time playing FPS

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I played ProMod a bit and while it was good, I felt that it could still use some tweaks. I talked with ArtifeX about this actually. Check out the AOTC:TC forums (http://www.aotctc.com), specifically in the ProMod section. I suppose even if none of the discussions re: blocking reduction/tweaking make it into JA, you can always just wait for another version of ProMod to tweak things further.

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pro mod was the only way to play an actual BALANCED game of jk2. i put half of the blame for jk2's downfall on the un-knowledgeable wannabe competitive community for not supporting that mod...and the other half on raven.


i remember the beta test day for pro mod. i literally was the only competitive player in favor of making it the new standard for all competition. gg twl ladder newbies.

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thanks rusted...


Nobody denied that Promod was more balanced, the issue the competitive community had with it was that in order to achieve the balance it took away what they loved, FORCE POWERS. Full-Force Guns was my favourite gametype in JK1 and it continued to be in JK2. For me (and many others), Full-Force combat is what the game is about. I gave Promod a shot, and it was fun, but it didn't win me over because it prevented me from playing the way I liked best.


This is also the reason most competitive players are against a class system. The majority of people in favour of a class system are obsessed with the "Gunners can't use force" concept, this is where the objection originates from. I freely agree that a class system could be fun, but as a mod and nothing more.

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you're very welcome detritic. i find it hilarious that newbies can whine and whine so much about un-balance issues but as soon as a solution comes along with sacrifice to their precious push/pull buttons they shut the hell up.


you may not like to hear this but jk2 just might be one of those games best played with classes :eek:

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funny... I was under the impression that the competitive community hated pull and push... a good portion of discussion has been on how to fix it...


There is a chance that class support for JK2 could enhance it, but not with the current batch of maps which are focused on faster gameplay. Hence my belief that class-based gameplay should be in the form of a mod rather than the norm.


It's my view that for a class-based Star Wars game to work well, Jedi should removed from the equation altogether.

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My suggestions;


Make a "modified saber combat" mode as a toggle in the menus (less confusing than all the cfg switches) that could allow for "dramatic" duels like the RPG players want, while still preserving powerful saber moves for use in CTF and other gameplay modes where dueling isn't focused on.


Think of it like the way in which the Unreal based games had "normal" "Hardcore" and "Turbo" settings. That'd be lots of fun and less confusing.




I know these were included as a "secret" in SP, but it would be fun to have them to use in both SP and MP, just for fun, even if they are weak.


First Person Lightsaber option in Multiplayer.


'Nuff said... if it could be as good as JK2's 1st person saber in SP, that'd be great. Fun for the "immersion" factor and for blocking blaster shots better.


Able to switch from first to third person and between participants while playing back a demo. And ability to record demos in SP.


Is this possible? If so, it'd be awesome.


Bot orders in team games.


This is a feature in Quake3 and UT that was sorely missing from JK2. It should even be patched in IMHO. Allow a person to become the "team leader' in ctf/etc and give orders to the bots on his team to "cover me" "attack/defend the base" "protect flag carrier" "Follow me" etc. Allow these commands to be bound to keys and we're in business. Bots were too much lone wolves (and not that good) in team games unfortunately.


I'm happy with autoblocking. If people want manual blocking, make it an option.


Now finally, the last two options I"d really love to see, and would make this game the sweetest SW game ever:


True objective based MP cooperative play.

Now I know asking for Serious Sam style coop play in the SP levels probably won't happen, but Unreal Tournament style "Assault" or a mode like the ill-fated Obi-Wan's "Protect/Capture the Queen or Viceroy" mode would just rock so hard.


Add in true class based options (like Mysteries of the Sith or better yet Team Fortress style) and you'd really be in business.


And how about support for more than two team colors? I miss the green/gold teams. ; )


Good luck on the game guys. Hopefully this should be as much an improvement over JK2 as Mots was over JK1 in terms of options and replay value.


Finally, some way to make it compatible (through a final JK2 patch) would be nice, in the way of engine improvements or shared maps (Rune did this with their expansion Halls of Valhala for example).

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Oh yeah, the rotating "overlay map" from JK1/MotS would be a welcome addition to JKA, even if its just in SP.


That was really nice because it gave the team more freedom to make huge complex, non-linear levels without having to worry about the player getting too lost. I mean, it's not like the technology doesn't exist in the SW universe, so it fits.


In JK1/MotS, force seeing was a lot cooler, in that it allowed you to spot enemy positions on the map, plus it illuminated the darker areas (as did the saber).


Now maybe using this sort of illumination isn't possible in the engine or not part of the design doc, but it sure would be cool.


Well, that's my wish list.... ; )

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If you want an idea how a class system could work, without having to be exactly like Jedi vs. Merc or ProMod, check out Mysteries of the Sith.


You can give non-Jedi different preset (low) levels of force, and resistance levels, plus different armor ratings and starting weapons. Then you have damage levels and movement speeds, plus starting items and then add in unique weapons/ammo, and you're set!


Best for team games of course....

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I totally agree that the MotS class system was good.


Each having their own skills and equipment without having being stronger than the other..at least not by far.


I remember playing a jedi and getting beat up by a bounty hunter... so i decided to try bounty hunter.. then came this other guy and blasted me to bits before i coudl use the carbon gun on him... it's a matter of who's behind the keyboard that mattered... i wasnt very good at MotS ;P

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Originally posted by nocause

what is the point of jk2 ctf without force powers wannabe badass internet personailty rusted


when have i suggested jk2 ctf with no force powers?


gj alarm, go back to copying more phrases from us superior jk2 players. ban plz.

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and now that i've taken care of the /2ise newbie :rolleyes:


Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

funny... I was under the impression that the competitive community hated pull and push... a good portion of discussion has been on how to fix it...


There is a chance that class support for JK2 could enhance it, but not with the current batch of maps which are focused on faster gameplay. Hence my belief that class-based gameplay should be in the form of a mod rather than the norm.


It's my view that for a class-based Star Wars game to work well, Jedi should removed from the equation altogether.


back when the community wasn't so threatened and when pro mod was first released wayyyyy less people were arguing about the un-balance from push/pull (back when matches were played with a 5th man on mf doing nothing but pulling) people basically just didn't care what was going on with the game as long as they could go to the bf server every day with the horde of other competitive wannabes that existed.


uh i don't see what's wrong with the current set of maps either...the players movement using force speed is what made a game fast, not the maps themselves. played with pro mod the maps would do nothing but force people to work more as a team and learn how to actually aim a gun.


and why should jedi be removed from a class system? that statement doesn't make any sense...

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wow been a while since i posted here, surprised my accnt is still here



ive listened to all the points people have made and for the most part i do agree with them. i believe blocking should be made into a button, like blocking saber atks with a block button instead of facing the person and it blocks :p


second, yes saber combats need to be much more dramatic, when pro mod and the rest of the mods came out, i found them more desireable as they added in some nice flashy moves like the triple sideways kick of darth maul with his saber, etc. these moves should be added


also some mroe taunts like the saber taunt. u never see a jedi battle in any of the movies without one of the characters spinning his saber :p.


also, one last thing, there just has to be melee this time, sure jump twice on a person u get a jump kick...but thats the only melee move u could do which was quite boring. the kick stand they are proposing sounds promising, but thats just 2 now to the list of melee moves. i think they should add a few more like round house kicks, etc.


thats pretty much it from my side. maybe an auto bow button, but thats pretty much it. happy duelin all

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I wasnt much of a gunner in JK2, but I agree 100% with the beta testing. I know things that were in JK2 made alot of people, (including myself) get sick and tired of. Examples:

1.) Drain should require a cool down or half of your force like heal did for light side users.

2.) Gripping through walls should be eliminated, make it so the opponant must stay within your line of sight to grip.

3.) Although I was worst of the worst at pull throwing I agree 100% that bugs as this should not go unnoticed and looked over like they were.

These are problems that were in JK2 that NEVER got any attention even after 100's upon 100's of people complained about them. Than to simply announce that no more patches will be released for a game that was still filled with countless bugs, exploits and unbalances was very bad for a game producers reputation.

Im afraid this game will be the same. You will release a game with awsome potential but give up after a few months b/c the game is "old".

Game producers such as Blizzard patch their games even after 5+ years!!! They have 3 great storylines and sagas and people STILL play 5+ year old games. It is that kind of commitment that gamers like myself and millions of others respect and nowa days EXPECT.

Earn yourself a respectable reputation amongst gamers and dont quit on your consumers on this game like you did in JK2.

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oh yes i forgot 1 more


for anyone that has played mortal kombat deadly alliance, u may have noticed the style change button.


if they add martial arts in, they can add diff stances (such as the crane, the scorpion etc) so that when ur facing another player, u two will be standing different and u'll get the true feeling of being original from the person. and with different stances come different styles/moves/taunts that can be done

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Originally posted by pds.rusted

and why should jedi be removed from a class system? that statement doesn't make any sense...


The statement didn't make sense because I was only intending to elaborate on it If I was asked.


In the original timeframe of the movies there was only ONE force user in practically all the battles covered by the movies and probably none in the majority of battles of the conflict. The point being a Jedi can and should be able to tip the balance in favour of his/her side. Many people want a class system, but they also want to be "realistic to the movies", well for class-based TF style gameplay (ie Rebels vs Imperials) the most "realistic" option is for there to be no Jedi at all. Also not having a Jedi class also removes arguments in game-balancing issues over who has access to force and weaponry...


In regards to the MotS class system, it was hard to tell how good it was since the game was never played extensively. My opinion on MotS was: far too many force powers.

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I think a class system would work, but I think you'd need to make a few different options on which class setup you'd use.


You could do a straight Jedi vs. Mercs game, with one team as Jedi and the other as Mercs, give Jedi force powers ONLY and Mercs guns and equipment ONLY and have them duke it out. That's one option.


Or, you could have a split between Jedi classes and gunner classes. Thus, you could play a game where you have objectives to complete or a flag to capture either as pure gunners (no force) or pure jedi (no guns). Another option would be to allow (just for fun's sake, not for movie accuracy) a full force guns option, but still break things down into classes, perhaps similar to how MOTS did, but hopefully a little better. The force powers would be your class-specific abilities (IE: scouts have force speed, but low shields and health, medics have force heal and team heal, assaulters have rage, etc.). You could also leave a limited number of other force powers (push/pull/jump) for people to assign a limited number of points to. So that'd be another option.


Or, you could have mixed teams, with Jedi and Mercs, but really make the Jedi be entirely close-combat oriented. To me, this would be ideal. You'd start the game, join your team, pick whether you wanted to be a merc or Jedi, then within that group, pick which class you wanted to play (merc medic/jedi medic, merc assault/jedi assault, merc defender/jedi defender, etc.). Depending on how you set up the force powers for jedi and how you set up the guns/equipment for Mercs, this could really work, I think. You wouldn't want Jedi to be too powerful, given that they already have the force, so you'd have to strip them of shields. But you'd still want them to be friggin' deadly in close combat, so you'd give 'em truly lethal sabres, and the ability for sabres to dish out damage THROUGH shields, not by taking shields down first and then hurting the individual. For the mercs, you'd want them to have really lethal and usefull guns, give them goodies that they can use (IE: merc engineer can drop X number of turrets and repair them, merc sniper has the ability to use a limited camoflague kit -- not sure how this'd work, but it could be cool, merc heavy weapons has the missile launcher and other big guns), etc. You'd probably also want Jedi to be able to do things like heal friendly players regardless of whether they're jedi or not, but require the Jedi players to also eschew all equipment -- thus the friendly merc medic can drop off plenty of bacta tanks, but a Jedi won't be able to pick them up.


Something along those lines could work, I think, if the classes were well balanced and actually complemented each other, rather than there being one "dominant" class. Plus, people would need to really work as a team in order to achieve victory, and have a balance of classes to do that. Of course, maps would have to be designed specifically for this game mode. You couldn't play it on DM style maps. You'd need maps on a larger scale than even the CTF maps we were given with JO.

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I dunno if this has been posted or not but I'm reposting the next few posts I did on Raven Forums:


-=more specials for stances

maybe a whole new stance (I like that upside down saber idea), maybe a throw special for once...also maybe a stance that combines hand and feet fighting with our beloved saber


-=saber adjust ?

be able to turn your saber only half way making it like a dagger, fast hitting is the advantage BUT short reach...


-=mercs vs. jedi

a jetpack that uses the force gauge like fuel (drains in other words)


-=love the pushing idea mentioned here before


-=more materials to wear ? like robes, you know, the jedi things ;)


-=better name making tool, with actual built-in colors instead of ^# and ability to make a profile/bio for others to see (name, clan name, etc)


-=more saber colors! maybe just a tool to mix colors and make your own ?


-=black reborn?! you bet, that would kick-ass :) actually, when making a character try to include as much things as possible, like adding robes and head gear


-=when you turn the saber off it will turn off normally BUT if you press the 'put away button' (work with me) the character will put it on his belt! (not only for sabers, for guns too ?) making it both sides because you can carry more then one weapon, right ? can we use saber and guns at the same time ? would be nice


-=more traps for levels! you dunno how fun it is with them, just a blast when playing with a bunch of guys... (or girls)


-=be able to pull objects, throw stuff, cut more of the map, random destructible objects


-=force powers... hmm, a power to put a dizzy-like spell over the enemy so when they move left it goes right (messes up their controls for time being), I would love to see a much better wall run system, it's really fun to wall-fight with people, upside down fighting, haha, that would be great


this is for either single player or for multiplayer, or both ? let me know what you think, I'll post more later

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would be cool to see a 'block' button, with both hands in hand-to-hand combat (I hope they do something like this for fun) and holding your saber with might to deflect saber hits (depends on what stance your in and your opponent is in of course), you block weak hits and other hits would just knock you back, if strong enough, push you on the floor but automatic 'block-like' hits for when you are fighting would be like dodge moves (I think ProMod or something ? not sure), moving like you do when using force seeing and someone is trying to sniper you :)


I like the idea of customizing your stances, if there are few then you can select what you want in the options but i bet they can work something out where you wont and they will be integrated with all the moves =/


would be nice to have a third side power (not dark and not light), in this one you won't be effected by any force power and it would be like using absorb BUT you won't have any other powers, I'd liek this because there are many people who don't liek to use force powers (and please don't say anything smart-ass like "go to a no-force server")


more taunts, both animations and sounds would be nice :)


would be cool to have emotions like smiley faces when talking (funny? hehe) and maybe diff. fonts for player names ? player names are sooo trendy these days, would be a shame not to add something to make it a bit more spicy :)


a special map, maybe game mode ? work with me here. There would be players all over the place, some meditating on the floor like yoda (while restoring their health and powers, slowly, they are probably away from the computer for a little bit) and after a while start floating ;) and some players just running around, talking to each other (ability to choose and bind a button to talk in-private to someone) and all this is happening BUT you can't use a weapon, you are not allowed (I mean make it so they can't pull one out no matter what) BUT there will be a special arena where players can enter :) and they can invite/challenge others (like a duel), this would be so sweet because you'll get a chance to interact with people, ask for help, get Padawans ? :) something to think about because you can add more to this game mode, I think everyone here will agree that played JK2 at least that sometimes you just want to go and talk to people and walk around and have some fun and not only fight =/


more options in the option screen, please, Quake 3 has so much more, ability to record videos, take screen shot, make this selectable because I'm tired of scripts (though it's still fun to have them..)


and please, most of all, try to stop these damn "hax0rz" with their damn autobots -_-

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yeah, limiting both jedi and non-jedi would be a cool idea, I'm tired of scrolling through all the weapons, a limit on weapons + items


another good idea would be to make server setup much easier with more options I mean, making options to restrict some forcepowers or levels or weapons (or players...) more options for admins (not through console I mean)


like I said before, Quake 3 has a lot of options that are possible, make them more user friendly, not everyone knows the console commands or maybe make a readme ? (I'm speaking in general here, I myself can and know that some can too)


once again, I'll mention player names, more colors and more character symbols maybe, something like you see on a console game, you get regular font and you get symbols to go with it :) maybe selectable colors instead of ^1 you pick red =/


the ghoul2 thing Dest mentioned is also VERY useful, you can crate animations and new moves :)


here, he has a thread but I'll post it here too



It would be really cool if you could move the bones of the ghoul2 models around using code so that a mod maker could create a mod that makes the light sabers use forward and inverse kinematics instead of canned animations.


I was thinking of doing a mod that would allow players to create their own sets of moves using a simple editor and thus create their own totally unique light saber fighting style. This would add a lot to the game but could only be done if the bones can be translated and rotated using C code.


If the ghoul2 engine lets mod makers move bones around then great things may happen.



wow, new animations would be indeed a great thing, and could be done on Ravens side without having to release their biped


nice thinking Dest



They would be more than animations. I was thinking of making a simple editor that allows the players to create a certain number of points in 3D space and all of these points would have a position, a time, and a rotation. By creating a path with these points you could use kinematics to move the model's arm and lightsaber to follow this path. This would allow users to create a set of moves that they could then use in the game.


Someone should make a developer look at this


Here is further explanation of what I want to do


I want to go beyond animations, any move that you can think of you can define. You just create a path for your light saber with a simple editor, then that path is defined to a move and all of the paths/moves are sent to the server. The player can then execute moves like normal but it would not use the standard moves, instead it would use the player defined moves.


I just need the ghoul2 support to do this.


Also, will JK3 use vertex and pixel shaders? If so will mod makers be able to edit these or define new ones?

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