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Clothing Tessellations


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Its a simple request, yet fairly complex in the limited Q3 engine I imagine. I really want dynamic moving clothing. They just add so much immersion to the game! To be able to jump in a jedi robe down and have it flutter about is something very subtle yet adds so much to the game.

 

I point out this small point because many of the other bigger changes I have already wrote about. Those changes are being disputed everywhere so I will leave it at this.

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Originally posted by HertogJan

Yeah, I remember the maker of the Darth Vader model saying he couldn't let the cloak move when in motion... Too bad!

IIRC, I think that had more to do with the animations that were available, and not an inherent liability of the engine. Raven may have the tools where he did not. I could be wrong though...
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I'm not a modder (well actually I am, but not this kind of modder), but I can tell you now that the Quake 3 engine could never pull that off. Almost certain.

 

There are some quite serious physics issues with the Q3 engine - well, it was great for the time but by today's standards there are things it simply can't do - like enemies falling down steps etc.. The moving clothes is another such feature.

 

I maybe wrong, but I really don't think it's possible.

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You cannot compare a modder to a developer! ROFLOL.

 

You must remember that they have access to the Q3 Engine, and the ability to change anything. Sure the quake 3 engine may not be able to handle it, but they can certainly modify the engine and add subroutines to support this feature.

 

It is simply a matter of whether they feel investing time and money to do so would be prudent. Considering they often over look these types of intricacies as being unimportant (much like the saber system :) ).

 

The bottom line is that it is possible if they are willing to put the time in modifying the engine to support it. To say this is a great task RELATIVELY is ludicrious considering the heavy graphics modifications they have done from the base quake 3 engine.

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if they REALLY wanted to, they could create new animations specifically for cloaked models, but....then I don't know how they could run different sets of anims for player chars....oh well, we don't even know if we'll have jedi robes (jedi tunics yes, but we DON't know about jedi cloaks).

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Originally posted by boinga1

if they REALLY wanted to, they could create new animations specifically for cloaked models, but....then I don't know how they could run different sets of anims for player chars....oh well, we don't even know if we'll have jedi robes (jedi tunics yes, but we DON't know about jedi cloaks).

if raven just added more bones to the skeleton (ie. for long hair, capes, jackets, etc.) they could greatly improve the visual experience.

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Originally posted by Smood

They would probablly still have to do some engine work to get the bones to act like a cape flowing due to air current, and movement.

decent simulations of clothing physics has been done in quake 3 animating before. also, they've been better than capes that follow the movement of your body/legs.

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Originally posted by t3rr0r

decent simulations of clothing physics has been done in quake 3 animating before. also, they've been better than capes that follow the movement of your body/legs.

 

I agree! They could also create "wind" and "rain" conditions. I am imagining Bespin and Kamino right now.... ;)

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Originally posted by StormHammer

While it would be great to see properly moving cloth, I imagine it's probably quite hard to do and get right. If they're stuck to tight deadlines again, I can't see them allocating the resources to this. Nevertheless, it would be cool to see.

well, what i was talking about would just require additional bones... we can only hope.

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I'd love to see that! but don't expect it, it's only eye candy it doesn't add to the gameplay, so they won't concentrate on that...

plus if you don't expect it and they pull it off then it'll be a nice surprise but if you expect it and the y don't put it in, then you'll be dissapointed.

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My god this is quake 3, and it will be difficult to do. However, MAX PAYNE did it! AND that game had the worst graphics ever, it is far inferior to the quake 3 engine, and it had clothing tesselations on max's jacket.

 

If max can do it anyone can.

 

 

 

But as many have mentioned, its not a matter of if it can be done, is will they pay money to get it done. Obviously the answer is no, but I was just trying to get some consensus.

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Well like someone else said moving clothing has nothing to do with engines, you know karma isnt a part of the warfare engine they added it later on, SOFII had damage skins, quake III didnt.

So offcourse it is possible and it isnt harder to pull of with the quake engine then the doom III or warfare engine, hell its probably even easier.

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Guest Jolts

they used bones to animate the jacket on max payne. I'm sure if the outfits for the jedi have flaps or anything like that they will bone it, and animate it....little principal of animation called secondary motion.

 

If your talking about having some true form of everytime the character moves the cloth will always move differently, then your getting into dynamics like dynamic soft bodies and thats something really system demanding. You could get away with it for 1 character, add 10 and your system is down sucking floor scum. Splinter Cell pulled soft bodies on curtains ingame, but thats about it.

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if u guys are talking about simulated cloth movement, it is possible in q3 engine, or any engine for that matter(just requires coding it in), but it'll take up waaay too much cpu time for the detail u guys are talkin about.

Example: Ever played Hitman 1 or 2? theres some really good physics simulation in there, particularly the ragdoll bodies, but theres also some really basic cloth sims. Walk thru a hanging cloth thing (like outside the hongkong leehong place in hitman1, or in the confessional in hitman2) While the cloth is simulated in-game, theres only about 100 triangles to simulate, and you can see the edges of the polys.

Using simulation for JA clothing will take up much much more cpu time because the polys will be much higher, unless you can settle for really simple clothes.

Then theres the issue of collision detection, its not foolproof. Going back to hitman, when u run thru the simulated cloth, it'll cut into you sometimes, or look really stupid. Apply this to clothing on your character, and it'll be really really hard to do. As far as i know, hitman uses a basic 'bounding box' method of collision detection, to speed things up. Clothes on a model just cant be done like this, it has to be per-poly hit detection.

Now for the maths side: Think about this, clothes of about 700polys, on the model that is about 3000polys. If the game has to check to see if any of the 700 cloth polys and the 3000 model polys are touching or intersecting in EVERY frame, thats a lot of calculations.

About 6-months ago i played around with cloth sims in 3d studio for a short animation i did, and i had 5 cloth objects of about 1000polys each in a simulation. For a 6 second animation, it took 46 minutes to calculate.

 

Just putting things into perspective :)

 

PS. What are you talking about? Max payne graphics suck compared to q3? are you mad!?!? :) That game rocked, graphics were excellent. But the jacket was preanimated, not simulated, sorry.

And a little correction for everyone, Tesselation is the subdivision of a surface to increase the detail(polys) to provide better quality. I think you guys are talking about simulation.

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