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Ok, I have a question. I have been kicking around the idea for some time of trying to make a website. Unfortunately, I do not know HTML, PHP, or the what not yet. I was wondering where or how you guys learned that kind of thing. Links to good websites, books, or any other type of help would be much appretiated. Thanks a lot. :)

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basic HTML is easy to learn. i taught myself, in large part by looking at the source code of other sites to figure out how they did it. if you right-click on any webpage, you can select "view source" and see the source code for that page in Notepad.

 

i can't recommend any specific sites for learning HTML tags but they're definitely out there. maybe someone else has a suggestion. i did some HTML at my old job and had a few books (of the HTML for dummies variety)... none of them stood out as the best book i ever read, but i mainly used them for reference... if i wanted to do something i'd look it up.

 

there's also programs like Dreamweaver but i find it much, much easier to do the coding myself. then again, my knowledge is pretty limited. i'm lazy and i like to keep things simple. :D

 

just for practice, you might sign up for a yahoo account and mess around with the pages. (i started on geocities, which was bought by yahoo.) they have tutorials and you don't have to worry about uploading your pages because yahoo makes it easy to do.

 

:D emily

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*gasp* I can't do that! You must remain dependent on the Church of Tim machine!

 

Umm... ok, so w3c.org is probably a bad suggestion. Myself, I learned off the version of HTML reference that preceeded this page on the obsolete version of Netscape DevEdge (if I could find the version I used, I'd link to it, but it's mostly outdated info anyway). Other than that, I learned by example. Here's a start:

 

<html>

<head>

<title>Blah</title>

</head>

<body>

Blah.

</body>

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I'm very new to HTML myself and the page that I have been working on is in a very early stage of production (man that sounded professional :D ).

 

Anyways, this site could be of some use. I have used it a bit, but I haven't read everything there so I don't know if it's that good. Worth a look though. :)

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Originally posted by Moosferatu

Ok, I have a question. I have been kicking around the idea for some time of trying to make a website. Unfortunately, I do not know HTML, PHP, or the what not yet. I was wondering where or how you guys learned that kind of thing. Links to good websites, books, or any other type of help would be much appretiated. Thanks a lot. :)

Personally, I never touch any of that stuff as I'm useless at remembering all the html syntax (I save my memory for Broken Sword plots :) ). the whole of my site ( http://www.junipercrescent.com ) was put together using a WYSIWYG editor called Namo Webeditor.

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Originally posted by fov

what is PHP?

 

-emily

 

PHP stands for (you're not going to believe this :)): "PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor"

 

It kinda reminds me of a Dilbert strip with "The TTP Project" (it's short for "The TTP Project") ;)

 

Anyway, basically it's a programming language that's embedded into regular HTML code and gets parsed by the server before being sent along to you, the end user. It lets you do nifty stuff like dynamic pages. For example, you'll notice you're looking at showthread.php right now. What showthread.php actually contains is a blank template for a topic page in HTML, with PHP instructions telling the server how to get the right topic from the database and fill in the template with it. The server does all the PHP stuff and fills the resulting data into the template, then sends the completed page to you.

 

It's super-simplified, but good enough :)

 

And Moos, I can help you with PHP and HTML if you want. Just IM me or something. Or, alternatively, if you're in a radically different timezone than me, I hereby volunteer Marek to answer questions :)

 

Also, for the basic HTML tags, check out:

http://devedge.netscape.com/library/manuals/1998/htmlguide/

 

It's out of date really, but the basics are still pretty much the same and t's a good reference.

 

This MSDN article might also be useful to you:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/dnhtmau/html/beghtml.asp

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Thanks, a lot. I have found quite a bit on those sites. I already have a basic understanding of what is going on from updating the Church of Tim. I just need to look deeper into the actual designing of sites. Speaking of the church, I wonder where Kingz is?

 

Anyway, Doug, thanks for the offer. I currently not using any IM service while I am in America this summer. But I might take you up on your offer later this year. Thanks again.

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I started with a program called Aracnophilia. It was not a wysiwyg-editor, but a text editor with buttons like "Image", "link", etc, and by clicking those buttons, an appropriate piece of code would be inserted into the textfile. From there I moved to Notepad+, which is a plain text editor. I also taught myself JavaScript, mostly by copying other people's code and a website which probably already has disappeared.

 

For a while I followed Webmonkey.

 

And of course I got better image manipulation programs and Flash and other sorts of things. EDIT: much, much later.

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Originally posted by tabacco

PHP stands for (you're not going to believe this :)): "PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor"

 

It kinda reminds me of a Dilbert strip with "The TTP Project" (it's short for "The TTP Project") ;)

It's a much more common phenomenon than those two.

 

I also just remembered http://www.webreference.com/ . It also has a section on pure design (layout, creating "motion," other things I don't know about without reading the thing), if you're into that.

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Originally posted by Moos

I currently not using any IM service while I am in America this summer.

Not even with AIM Express and ICQ2Go?

 

Originally posted by deadworm222

I started with a program called Aracnophilia. It was not a wysiwyg-editor, but a text editor with buttons like "Image", "link", etc, and by clicking those buttons, an appropriate piece of code would be inserted into the textfile.

HomeSite is another of such.

 

Originally posted by The Boos

Right now I am at my grandparents cabin in the Upper Peninsula Michigan, but I live in Budapest Hungary (at least for the next few years).

Say hello to the Wolverines for me. Not like I know them. I'm just having fun with google and vbml.

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I use 1st Page 2000 (it's a little old now, but it works). It has a very good preview function, as well as a multitude of options and nice pretty colours to help you easily read your own html. Top notch.

 

Unfortunately its getting harder to find. Do a little searching on google if you're interested (its seriously very good imo).

 

Sadly the makers, Evrsoft, never released version 3 which has supposedly been in production since 2000. The sites still up, with an active forum but it seems an inactive dev team:

 

http://www.evrsoft.com

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And if you really want to use a WYSIWYG, my recommendation (though, last time I looked at it, it was version 2) is Dreamweaver. I produces(d) the cleanest looking code I've seen from a WYSIWYG. It also has a builtin in text editor to let you edit your code alongside the W...G view, which is nice.

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I am affraid I have created a monster...

 

It seems that people have something against my unorthodox code, Moos, so all that you have learned while aprenticed with your uncle Kingzjester you should unlearn as fast as you can. If you get some home that is PHP friendly (say... mixnmojo) I could give you the updating script I made for the Church.

 

What kind of site do you wanna make, anyhow?

 

Here to answer any and all your questions.

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Originally posted by twifkak

It also has a builtin in text editor to let you edit your code alongside the W...G view, which is nice.

so's frontpage got that. It's necessary there tho cos of all the sh!t the program puts in .. it's for people too lazy to type out everything themselves but with enough knowledge to clean up the code later :)
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Okay, the whole world pretty much agrees that for professional web design Frontpage = evil. It produces convoluted code that sometimes even contains tags and extensions that only work with Microsoft products.

 

Macromedia Dreamweaver is pretty much the industry standard for web development. (What twifkak said).

 

The best way to learn HTML basics is to use notepad though. Even if you want to use a WYSIWYG editor, it's really useful to know how things work under the hood.

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Originally posted by curacao

so's frontpage got that. It's necessary there tho cos of all the sh!t the program puts in .. it's for people too lazy to type out everything themselves but with enough knowledge to clean up the code later :)

That's the thing.

1)Dreamweaver doesn't put that **** in.

2)Dreamweaver is more likely to correctly interpret and integrate with its W...G hand-produced code.

3)What Marek said.

4)Loser.

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HomeSite is another of such.

 

homesite is a *great* program. i didn't mention it before because i couldn't remember what it was called. i used this for several years but lost access to it when i left my old job.

 

the great thing about homesite (or a similar product) is that since it fills in the tags for you, you learn them as you go along, but without having to look them up every time you need them...

 

thanks for the PHP explanation! i'm not sure i get it... but it sounds like something i don't need to know!

 

:) emily

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As always, the best way to learn things is to look at examples and how other people did the thing and then do a little copy and paste and editing for yourself. After that is almost all you need the specification :) which you will find at http://www.w3c.org/. XHTML and CSS2 is what is appropriate nowadays.

 

Oh, and don't expect that your webpage will look the same in every browser. IE and old netscapes (4.x) are notorious for not following standards in a good manner.

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