Gundato Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Probably too soon to ask, but does anyone know if the models and skins will be backwards compatible (or at least incredibly easy to convert)? like just change a few folder names around inside the .pk3 or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acdcfanbill Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 not that easily it sounds, but there may be a converter. I think Raven said in an interview that it should be reletivly easy, but since they skeletons are different between jo and ja, they wont work right out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 You'd only have to reweight, redo hierarchy and export. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundato Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 i have no idea what "reweighting" is, but tahnks. looks like i will be able to convert it, i would just have to read a couple of tutorials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrobot Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 I seem to recall Raven saying that they'd release tools, that would alow skins/levels/ect. to be converted from JO to JA, shortly before JA comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangKhan Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by Gabrobot I seem to recall Raven saying that they'd release tools, that would alow skins/levels/ect. to be converted from JO to JA, shortly before JA comes out. Yes, that was, initially, the plan, but one of our programmers (Gil Gribb) decided to just make it so that Jedi Academy could load JK2 models, recognize they're from JK2 and automagically convert them to JA-usable models. So all downloadable player models from JK2 should work in JA! Sabers should work too, plus modders will find they have much more control over adding lightsabers (using a new external data file for lightsabers - using the extention .sab, not unlike our .npc files for NPCs last game) and easier to add them to the game (it will find the .sab and automagically make them available in the menus). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shock ~ unnamed Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Very cool indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Whoa great Who needs converting??! Thanx for the update I wonder how easy it is to make a lightsaber, I'd like a montreal blue lightsaber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reprehence Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 In that comic con report they did say that various npc's from JO could be spawned in JA SP, so that sounds right. Great news about the saber selection system - hopefully that's for SP as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Excellent news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN] Yes, that was, initially, the plan, but one of our programmers (Gil Gribb) decided to just make it so that Jedi Academy could load JK2 models, recognize they're from JK2 and automagically convert them to JA-usable models. So all downloadable player models from JK2 should work in JA! Sabers should work too, plus modders will find they have much more control over adding lightsabers (using a new external data file for lightsabers - using the extention .sab, not unlike our .npc files for NPCs last game) and easier to add them to the game (it will find the .sab and automagically make them available in the menus). I've been working on an animation solution for JK2, which has recently included model rendering into it's reportoire - what are the key differences between JK2's implementation of Ghoul2, and JA's (specifically, the mdxa and mdxm formats)? Will you guys please repeat the kindness of JK2, and release your model and animation file formats for JA? I've been gearring up my project in time for JA, mostly hoping there won't be too much more work to do for it (doesn't sound like there would be, I might not even have to do a JK2 and a JA version, just one release ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Truthful Liar Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN] Yes, that was, initially, the plan, but one of our programmers (Gil Gribb) decided to just make it so that Jedi Academy could load JK2 models, recognize they're from JK2 and automagically convert them to JA-usable models. So all downloadable player models from JK2 should work in JA! Sabers should work too, plus modders will find they have much more control over adding lightsabers (using a new external data file for lightsabers - using the extention .sab, not unlike our .npc files for NPCs last game) and easier to add them to the game (it will find the .sab and automagically make them available in the menus). Thanks for the info Mike. ; ) One question though, what about the maps made for JK2, how soon would we be able to port them over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangKhan Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Originally posted by wudan I've been working on an animation solution for JK2, which has recently included model rendering into it's reportoire - what are the key differences between JK2's implementation of Ghoul2, and JA's (specifically, the mdxa and mdxm formats)? Will you guys please repeat the kindness of JK2, and release your model and animation file formats for JA? I've been gearring up my project in time for JA, mostly hoping there won't be too much more work to do for it (doesn't sound like there would be, I might not even have to do a JK2 and a JA version, just one release ) Actually, the format, itself, hasn't changed, but our skeleton did (different number of bones, stopped flattening the heirarchy). Do the format info we released last game should still apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangKhan Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Originally posted by The Truthful Liar Thanks for the info Mike. ; ) One question though, what about the maps made for JK2, how soon would we be able to port them over? They should load in JA just fine, I believe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN] Actually, the format, itself, hasn't changed, but our skeleton did (different number of bones, stopped flattening the heirarchy). Do the format info we released last game should still apply. Good thing I thought ahead I can load and render any JK2 .gla and .glm thrown at me My solution for your flattened hierarchy was some heavy math, so I think we'll be in the clear for JA. I heard Hoekstra toss out the idea that you guys were working up an animation solution for JA, I'm curious as to what it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortoCG Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 I've been working with new animations and new skeletons in JK2 for a while (actually since January 2003) and I can load them andmanipulate them in SP, but I cannot load them in MP. Although a mod team achieved that, I was wondering: will new animations/skeletons for JA be easier to implement? Or do we have to trick everything? Thanks for finally start answering thisd questions =). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodus Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Sorry to bother you again with the question (I already asked you in General Editing, thanks for answering ) but is Raven considering releasing the SDK early so mod makers could make some content before JA is released? Thanks in advance, Commodus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangKhan Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Originally posted by CortoCG I've been working with new animations and new skeletons in JK2 for a while (actually since January 2003) and I can load them andmanipulate them in SP, but I cannot load them in MP. Although a mod team achieved that, I was wondering: will new animations/skeletons for JA be easier to implement? Or do we have to trick everything? Thanks for finally start answering thisd questions =). I'm curious, how did you manage that? Did you make a whole new skeleton or were you somehow able to use our XSIs with yours and add the anims in, or somehow hack the .gla? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangKhan Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Originally posted by Commodus Sorry to bother you again with the question (I already asked you in General Editing, thanks for answering ) but is Raven considering releasing the SDK early so mod makers could make some content before JA is released? Thanks in advance, Commodus I don't know, James Monroe (Lead Programmer) will probably do that, but I imagine the timing is up to LucasArts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN] I'm curious, how did you manage that? Did you make a whole new skeleton or were you somehow able to use our XSIs with yours and add the anims in, or somehow hack the .gla? Corto has made his own animations using his own skeletons, which he was primarily interested in doing for his Dark Forces project. I have been successful in my attempts to 'hack' the .gla and I've been working on making a tool to edit the .gla (no one wants to do 17k frames on animation on a new skeleton just to match the old one) Since you were curious, you might be interested in my proof of concept shot: http://users.sisna.com/tokyopop/shot0005.jpg I had spent quite a bit of time writing a little console app to generate a .gla from an ASCII script (read: generate the frame, view in ModView, rinse, and repeat) and I used glaMerge by ASk to append it to the _humanoid.gla, and coded it in. Finally, proof, that new animations were indeed possible. (though the flat hierarchy threw me off for a long time) http://users.sisna.com/tokyopop/construct3.jpg This is where I'm at today, making my own version of ModView that will eventually play animations and create animations, compile to .gla and whatnot. As you can imagine, I'm pleased as punch that the file format hasn't changed (too much?) from JO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN] I'm curious, how did you manage that? Did you make a whole new skeleton or were you somehow able to use our XSIs with yours and add the anims in, or somehow hack the .gla? Hi Chang We managed to get a few raw data files from a few of the guys at your place, Wudan has been working hard on the Code and trying to get new, and succeded, animations. Im still trying to play with MilkShape, as James (Monro) kinda left me in the learch with not a lot to play with. Please please please tell me that you will be doing for us modders who want to create new animation files I dont mind if I have to use XSI or 3DMax as long as I can get some new ones made! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangKhan Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Originally posted by Anakin Hi Chang We managed to get a few raw data files from a few of the guys at your place, Wudan has been working hard on the Code and trying to get new, and succeded, animations. Im still trying to play with MilkShape, as James (Monro) kinda left me in the learch with not a lot to play with. Please please please tell me that you will be doing for us modders who want to create new animation files I dont mind if I have to use XSI or 3DMax as long as I can get some new ones made! (also RE: Wudan) Interesting! I didn't realize you guys had made so much progress! That's great to see (obviously, I've been totally absorbed in making JA for the past year)! I'll discuss this with James. This gla editor of yours, Wudan, sounds interesting, is there anything you need from us to help you get that working better? I can't promise anything since I'm not the skeleton expert, but I can ask around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN] This gla editor of yours, Wudan, sounds interesting, is there anything you need from us to help you get that working better? I can't promise anything since I'm not the skeleton expert, but I can ask around... Well, if you guys could somehow whip up some magic potion to give me some more time to work on it, and maybe some superior knowledge of how to code, I'd be grateful. The WIP name of the tool is GlaNeo, though I'm currently gearring up for an actual App-Ish release (you know, like a real program), which means I have to create a usable interface (that's what UI stands for, right? ), make it easy to use, and implement more and more features (which means I get to write my own 'bolton' function, and lightsaber rendering, woohoo) It's a tedious process, especially when dev time is sparse. I've asked James and Ste for help in the past and they've always been good to me ('specially Ste). If you guys could add a trap_g2something call to JA that allows me to specify a quat to multiply by a bones current quat, that'd be cool. For exampe, multiplying any quat/bone by a quat( w = 0, x = 0.5, y = 0.5, z = 0.5 ) would expand that bone and all it's children by 2x, and if you did it to the right bone, you'd have big-head jedis! w00t! One thing that might be handy for the creation of total conversions is the format specs for the fontdat file, even though that doesn't really help me much in my project ... I've had a lot of help from my friends I've met in the community - Tchouky, Trimbo, Corto, recombinant(formerly JediStone), Commodus (who has actually submitted a very crucial function, for IEEE-754 emulation), and lots of support for the project, though most folks have probably never heard of it. I did it mostly because people said it wasn't possible (to make new animations for the _humanoid skeleton.) I'll let you guys know if I need anything ... other than time, and education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortoCG Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Well, what I did is to create a new skeleton, for which I had to create a new gla file with new animations sequences, basic stuff, for testing purposes. I wrote a new animations.cfg for that one model with a new skeleton, then named the sequences with the same names JO already has harcoded, but, pointing the frames to the part of the gla I wanted (or needed) to play. Then I tried the new glm/gla combo with modview and it worked out fine. So I loaded the new model into the SP game (I know the glm looks for it's gla by itself). It was kind of funny to see the model using my new animation for every action (cuz I only made some basic crap to be sure that the engine was playing my animations for that model). Soon after that Wudan started to work on the gla format and made some real progress on it, he showed us how he could add a new sequence to an already existant (compiled) gla. Since then I've been providing him with whatever animator feedback I could give him to help him out, and, I must tell, he is a genius. Now, my main problem is, I'm not interested in adding new anims to a gla file. I'm interested in creating new creatures with new skeletons and new animations. The main problem is that we (at the Dark Forces MOD) had to work with the MP code and, sadly, it doesn't load other gla than the _humanoid.gla file. I know that a mod team got the mp engine to load and play non humanoid gla files, like droids, the ATST or mine monsters. I wanna know if, for JA, we'll have to code a new gla loader for MP (like th RPG MOD did), or will we have the SP code to work on, or at least a more flexible/editable MP code. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangKhan Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Originally posted by CortoCG Well, what I did is to create a new skeleton, for which I had to create a new gla file with new animations sequences, basic stuff, for testing purposes. Impressive! Originally posted by CortoCG Now, my main problem is, I'm not interested in adding new anims to a gla file. I'm interested in creating new creatures with new skeletons and new animations. The main problem is that we (at the Dark Forces MOD) had to work with the MP code and, sadly, it doesn't load other gla than the _humanoid.gla file. I know that a mod team got the mp engine to load and play non humanoid gla files, like droids, the ATST or mine monsters. I wanna know if, for JA, we'll have to code a new gla loader for MP (like th RPG MOD did), or will we have the SP code to work on, or at least a more flexible/editable MP code. Is there any reason you didn't try your creatures in SP? All you need to do is make a .npc file for your new creature, which specifies the model directory to load its model from and you can then spawn it in-game (using the "npc spawn <npcname>" console command - you can also place them in the map using an NPC_spawner and setting the NPC_type to the name of your new NPC). As for MP, since we now have NPCs in MP, it will load models that use non-humanoid skeletons (though not for players, only NPCs I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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