CortoCG Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I did try everything on SP, I created and npc with my model. Actually that's how I found out that new animations and skeletons where possible and not a mere speculation or mith around the forums. Ppl started asking for tutorials and so. But, bcuz the mod is being developed with the MP code, I found myself out of business with the new skeletons/anims project =(. Now that you tell me that JA will support NPCs on MP I'm starting to drool on the things I'm planning to make. Also, wil ICARUS II be more advanced in the way of controlling NPCs behavior? Will our coders then be able to program new NPC classes or AI? I know I'm making too many questions now, I'm sorry. But I'm getting really exited about the new features and capabilities of JA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recombinant Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Is there any reason you didn't try your creatures in SP? IIRC, he did get it working in SP. However our MOD is an SP game created with the MP engine (obviously, since we don't have the SP SDK (yet?)), so Corto and I discussed the possibility of enabling them in MP. Since RPG-MOD was able to get alternate models loaded in MP, that gave us a ray of hope. Unfortunately they evidently don't do much, but that's a matter of coding some AI for the new creatures. I'm interested to see how far we could take the Dark Forces MOD with the JA engine and tools straight out of the box... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 recombinant, you might be interested in the new SP info on this thread: http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=106257 Also, Chang, I'd like to see what you think of the ideas presented in this thread: http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104564 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangKhan Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Originally posted by CortoCG wil ICARUS II be more advanced in the way of controlling NPCs behavior? Will our coders then be able to program new NPC classes or AI? Well, not every single ICARUS command is fully implemented in MP because quite a few of the commands are irrelevant/impossible in MP. And not all NPCs are in MP (mostly the JK2 entities as the port-over was done early on in the project). But, the foundation is there, all the hard work is done, your coders should easily be able to take a look at how NPC AI is done and make their own NPC AI (or "creatively adapt" what's already in there... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortoCG Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Great news Mr. Gummelt, thanks a lot . Now on the modelling/animating side of the equation, what new tools for shaders and models will Raven release? Any new version of the carcass compiler? I've heard about rag doll physics, how will that affect the way we do our custom models or animations (personally, I've never interacted with ragdolls before)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Ragdoll should be entirely independant of the models. I expect SoF2 level of "ragdoll" at least, if not true ragdoll. A lot of 2002 and 2003 games don't have ragdoll of any kind, and we've been without it for years. So at least SoF2 quality is a big relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Originally posted by Emon Ragdoll should be entirely independant of the models. I expect SoF2 level of "ragdoll" at least, if not true ragdoll. A lot of 2002 and 2003 games don't have ragdoll of any kind, and we've been without it for years. So at least SoF2 quality is a big relief. From what I've seen on the screens, the death animations of stormtroopers (or actually Snow Troopers) were normal animations, although it's hard to see in one single shot... I didn't even know the Q3 engine could handle ragdoll, although I must admit I'm not really an expert on these technical aspects... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 It may be normal death animations and then ragdoll later. It could also be the basic ragdoll like SoF2, where it just stops limbs from clipping through surfaces, which is really nice. The Quake III engine can handle anything. Raven isn't making a mod, they are making a whole new game. They have the engine's source code, they can do anything they want with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangKhan Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Originally posted by CortoCG Great news Mr. Gummelt, thanks a lot . Now on the modelling/animating side of the equation, what new tools for shaders and models will Raven release? Any new version of the carcass compiler? I've heard about rag doll physics, how will that affect the way we do our custom models or animations (personally, I've never interacted with ragdolls before)? I imagine we'll be releasing everything we did last time. There have only been minor changes in the tools, actually. And the only thing we had to make for ragdoll (as far as building models) is just not flattening the bone heirarchy on the arms and legs when we carcass the skeleton. This shouldn't make a difference to people who are just making new models. If you're making new anims, I imagine wudan's tool should be capable of handling it (once he gets it working with JA's _humanoid.gla). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 So there is ragdoll, hah haaa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN] I imagine we'll be releasing everything we did last time. There have only been minor changes in the tools, actually. And the only thing we had to make for ragdoll (as far as building models) is just not flattening the bone heirarchy on the arms and legs when we carcass the skeleton. This shouldn't make a difference to people who are just making new models. If you're making new anims, I imagine wudan's tool should be capable of handling it (once he gets it working with JA's _humanoid.gla). Not to soud rude Mike, but why cant you guys at Raven make the software, it was mentioned the last time when JO Editing tools were released and some one said, it will be in the 'next version' of the tools. Wudan works very hard at the code, but I think it would be unfair if you guys couldnt help him out or the community out by making the tool yourselfs or with him. I still think that XSI was a good idea, but giving us the data files and telling us that is the files go 'figure it out' on how to make new animations was a litlle unfair. I hate to rant Mike as you know but this was one of the things I was trying so hard to get the community into editing animation just like we did with Dark Forces 2, ahhh memories of Spork... anyhow, again thanks for keeping us posted I just hope that everything will come together and JK:JA editing community will keeping on going for a lot longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 I believe James attempted to change the source animation data in 3ds max 4, and it failed, so they didn't see a reason to release it, because not many people have the proper version of XSI. Some have said 1.5x is what you need, but I swear someone at Raven saying you must have 2.x, and it's really expensive, and not easy to obtain otherwise... However, 3ds max 5 is out now... what are the chances of it working in there? I use 5.1, and it's rather different from 4.2. Also, I do believe Mike offered to help wudan should he request it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 I don't think it's really fair to put undue pressure on Raven, they are limited in what they can do for JA by several factors out of their control. Unfortunately, this does put the pressure on me, a teency bit. However, I don't think that'll be a problem, there are more than enough capable people to take over this work and drag it across the finish line in case I'm not going fast enough. That might happen, I'm going back to school full-time so that someday I might work at a company like Raven, where it is rumored they play paintball on the weekends, but don't let it get you down, eh? Finally, Raven could not have possibly just 'whipped out' something like a Gla Editing tool, primarily because Raven doesn't edit the Gla directly, at all. It is, as Ste Cork pointed out to me, an end-result format - it is an XSI file, compiled to .gla. They've always been nice to me, but then again, I haven't been spamming them with requests for information. The rest isn't Raven, it's up to me and whoever will help out to figure the functions and algorythms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortoCG Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Originally posted by Anakin Not to soud rude Mike, but why cant you guys at Raven make the software, it was mentioned the last time when JO Editing tools were released and some one said, it will be in the 'next version' of the tools. I think I can reply that: cuz you're not paying them to do so. That's why we modders/modifiers exists. That's why Wudan is working so hard on his animation/rendering program. Personally I like the 'go figure' basis on which we usually work when making a mod. That's what seperates men from boys . If Raven gives us every little thing we could possibly need to make a mod it wouldn't be fun at all. Actually I liked a lot when I found out by myself how to compile new gla files and see the npc fooling around with the anims I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortoCG Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN] If you're making new anims, I imagine wudan's tool should be capable of handling it (once he gets it working with JA's _humanoid.gla). Although I'm helping Wudan out on everything I can with modelling and animating feedback for his upcoming program, as an advisor mostly (I don't know anything about programing on C) I hope I can rely on 3ds max 5 to make new animations . But I guess I'll find out about my chances of having new animations and creatures on the mod when the game's sdk comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodus Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Originally posted by Anakin Not to soud rude Mike, but why cant you guys at Raven make the software, it was mentioned the last time when JO Editing tools were released and some one said, it will be in the 'next version' of the tools. Wudan works very hard at the code, but I think it would be unfair if you guys couldnt help him out or the community out by making the tool yourselfs or with him. I still think that XSI was a good idea, but giving us the data files and telling us that is the files go 'figure it out' on how to make new animations was a litlle unfair. I hate to rant Mike as you know but this was one of the things I was trying so hard to get the community into editing animation just like we did with Dark Forces 2, ahhh memories of Spork... anyhow, again thanks for keeping us posted I just hope that everything will come together and JK:JA editing community will keeping on going for a lot longer Look, Raven have done more than enough for us. Don't forget that some games cannot be modified - MOHAA doesn't have an SDK; for C&C: Red Alert 2, all you could do is play with black-or-white flags; and C&C: Renegade was virtually uneditable as well. If you say Raven are unfair, go ask the people at AWD who modified Red Alert 2 and could not move a lot in any particular direction. If you think Raven are rude, go ask the people who modded Renegade, who were promised a fully moddable game with a diverse SDK but instead got a powerless skin and model plugin and a pathetic map editor plugin for GMAX. JK2 modding is very versatile in comparison to other games. Also, you say "Wudan works very hard at the code, but I think it would be unfair if you guys couldnt help him out or the community out by making the tool yourselfs or with him.". Well, I think it's unfair if you sit back and ask a company who is otherwise busy with 3 projects to do something for you when they've already done so much. Instead of sitting back, watching Wudan slave on with Neo and complaining to Raven, pick up a book on OpenGL or C, learn something and see how you can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 In every way, it's true, but I don't like to toot my own horn too much (pay no attention to the blaring self-promotional signature pic), but before JK2 modding, I'd never written a line of code, and before Neo, I'd never tried to dev an app before. In my mind, all I really need is the option to ask Raven for some extra info, if it'll help when I get stuck. Without their support, none of this would exist and we'd play what they gave us to play (which, while enjoyable, eventually certain like-minded folks want to tinker with the building blocks of the universe. I certainly am appreciative of the support Raven has offered, I know that I have learned a great deal because of this ordeal. Essentially, everyone is born knowing nothing, but needing everything. At some point, you have to stop asking and start doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Actually, RA2 is suprisingly moddable for just those INIs and stuff... A guy named DeeZire makes a great mod for Tiberian Sun, Red Alert 2 and Generals. But anyway, Wudan, I still want to help on GlaNeo, but last I checked you seemed to be having no problems. Please, let me know if I can help, I'm a perfectly able programmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Originally posted by Emon But anyway, Wudan, I still want to help on GlaNeo, but last I checked you seemed to be having no problems. Please, let me know if I can help, I'm a perfectly able programmer. That'd be awesome, I'd certainly appreciate the help - I get stuck a lot, or ask n00b C questions frequently, over in the #jk2coding channel on quakenet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortoCG Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Looks like Corto started an argue once again. Way to go man... Errr, wait, that would be me... Doh! Dumbass, how many times do I have to tell you, never write what you think . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Truthful Liar Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Stick to the subject matter and questions please, don't go off on other people. All of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CortoCG Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Yeah boss, we are sorry =). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodus Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Originally posted by Emon Actually, RA2 is suprisingly moddable for just those INIs and stuff... A guy named DeeZire makes a great mod for Tiberian Sun, Red Alert 2 and Generals. I agree that you can do some stuff, but a good portion of the really innovative stuff, the things that leave you breathless like DeeZire's Chrono Prison was done through hacking and work-arounds. However, certain things are hardcoded into the .exe (e.g. there is a fixed number of superweapons, units coded as aircraft cannot attack other aircraft, there is a fixed number of countries, there can only be one IFV-type vehicle, etc.) and they are either impossible to "code" or require some complicated hacking and long-winded work arounds. Really, the stuff that you add will be quite similar to the units already there - nothing particularly revolutionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 To be honest guys I was kinda dissapointed with Raven's lack of support, I have had a hell of a lot of help from the guys down there, I was hoping that when I started on the Animation pluggins over 8 months ago I was hoping for more help, Wudan has had the help and I didnt get any. At the end of the day I have had to learn everything from scratch I have XSI from 1.0 to the current version, and I could of animated anything I just needed the compliler for the glm files. Once I could export things from XSI to Game I was then able to attack things like Milkshape for the community. I didnt mean to rant and scream to much I just put a lot of time into everything and I just never saw much help from a few people at Raven and it just annoyed me a bit. Again Wudan has out done himself anyhow, with this new software looking more and more likely to assist us in the animation process I can get on with what Im trained in and get into my mates 3D Motion Capture studio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASk Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Talking about support from Raven....don't get me started on it. I had a hard enough time getting glaMerge to work without proper data to try it on (yes, merging 2 _humanoid.gla files IS getting redundant at some point, not to mention that it takes quite a bit of time, if you want to make a file without any redundant data in it) And the skeletons that we had, they had a different bone structure...face bone anyone? We asked you guys if you can send us the xsi skeleton you used to create animations. You did. It was the exact skeleton that was in the SDK, of course missing bones. I certainly hope that future support will improve, right now I can only give it 2 stars out of 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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