Compa_Mighty Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 I don't know if I have posted this before, but it's something that keeps puzzling me: The bad opinion on Star Wars prequels. I mean, I think they are good movies. Different? Of course. Bad? I don't think so. When people go blaming Jar Jar Binks for being an annoying character, who ruined Episode I, don't they remember C-3PO? Don't they remember they are characters who have a role in the story, and that not everyone has to be extremely clever? Or blaming the young Anakin Skywalker. He has to be an innocent child! He couldn't be older or meaner, that was not who he was, repression on the Jedi order has a huge role on who he becomes. Anyway, my personal opinion is that Episode I was better than Episode II, although both movies are good and serve their purpose well, tell the story of Anakin Skywalker. If anyone has an answer to why are these movies so badly criticized please post it. Also please post if you disagree about what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygomaticus Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 I think the dig about Anakin was that the kid who played him (Jake Lloyd?) acted it badly. Not a character fault, but an actor fault, apparently. Either way, I too really liked Episode I and nothing anyone says can change it. Qui God ruleth. Qui Gon, Maul and Obi wan battle ruleth them all I'd rate that as the best Star Wars battle of all, both in terms of meaning and choreography (is that the right word?)...Both Luke vs Vader battles rate very closely behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 The stories are weak. There is no character development. There are too many characters of which you know nothing about. Episode I was a snore save for the Duel in the end. And Ep. II was marred by Hayden's AWFUL acting. Portman wasn't much better. However I'm a big Ewan McGreggor and Sam Jackson fan... and their acting wasn't much better. Which leads me to believe that it was tough being in front of a blue screen 99% of the time. Jar Jar had a purpose in Ep. I... to explain the use of the Gungans. However, he didn't have to be so over the top annoying. Lucas was trying to make a marketable character like an Ewok I guess... but next time he shouldn't think he can sell a searobbin-humanoid (a sea robbin is a fish with a head VERY similar to the gungans and basically considered a garbage fish). 3PO I just always considered to somehow be the robot equivalent of the gayest human ever. Anakin in Ep. I didn't bother me at all. Most child actors are a lot worse. Calling him Annie though makes him a tad feminine in my view though... couldn't he have gotten a cool nickname at some point or something?? The Jedi? They are made to look so naive and like sucks it's not even funny. Not to mention a complete contradiction to their existence. Keepers of the peace who aren't supposed to use the force for attack... but have laser swords... ooookay. And the "love story" between Anakin and Padme was horrid. All of a sudden they're in love? you mean Anakin hasn't met another girl in TEN YEARS?! ROFL!!! Get over it son! So unbelievable... PS This might get moved to the propper forum in the SW section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygomaticus Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Originally posted by pbguy1211 Keepers of the peace who aren't supposed to use the force for attack... but have laser swords... ooookay. Refresh me as to where that was a point? And the "love story" between Anakin and Padme was horrid. All of a sudden they're in love? you mean Anakin hasn't met another girl in TEN YEARS?! ROFL!!! Get over it son! So unbelievable... Well, they don't exactly hail from planet earth where women are a-plenty to men of his age. Also, he mightn't have been allowed to come in contact with too many of them. Despite this, I agree that the plan to get them together didn't work as well. I still can't get over the fact that he was 9 and she was 14.... They could've equalized them a little more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Shears Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 I too thought Ep I was better than the AOTC rubbish. I was completely amazed at what TPM had to offer me, all of the new sights and sounds. While AOTC had some great "sights and sounds" it was marred by the unforgiveable acting of Hayden and Portman. The other thing that made AOTC unenjoyable for me was the lack of introduction to the Clone War, the thing the movie's all about. I felt like the party had started without me when I saw lasers already flying when Anakin's gunship takes off. It seems to me like George was trying to make a Star Wars documentary rather than an entertaining movie at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compa_Mighty Posted July 28, 2003 Author Share Posted July 28, 2003 Well I do agree Billy... for one thing, I hated the scene at the factory... the rest wasn't that bad... but you're right we should have had more Clone War action, and in my opinion Yoda's battle was a little disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tie Guy Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 First of all, correct me if i'm wrong (i'm not) but TPM and AOTC are entirely character development for Anikan. How can you say that there isn't any character development, there's plenty of it. The Jedi? They are made to look so naive and like sucks it's not even funny. Not to mention a complete contradiction to their existence. Keepers of the peace who aren't supposed to use the force for attack... but have laser swords... ooookay. Sometimes the only way to keep the peace it to fight those who would oppose it. It's much the same for any security force too. And the "love story" between Anakin and Padme was horrid. All of a sudden they're in love? you mean Anakin hasn't met another girl in TEN YEARS?! ROFL!!! Get over it son! So unbelievable... Well, ya see, they're kinda at a Jedi Temple, where intimate relationships are strictly (and i mean strictly) forbidden. Jedi can never get married, and never have kids. There are alot of reasons behind it, but i won't go into detail. So, Padme was proably the only girl he ever met that actually cared for him in that sort of way. It's only natural he remember's that. Overall, i like both movies, and have seen them a large number of times. The acting wasn't great, but it wasn't unbearable either (except, perhaps, in one or two parts). Jar-Jar was annoying, but he hardly ruined the entire movie, and didn't mess us Ep. 2, at all, since he was hardly in it. I think many people criticize the movies because they aren't like the originals at all. Really, the originals had many of the same acting problems and corny lines and all, but those are already classics we know and love; we don't have a chance to criticize them. But the new ones are fresh meat, just waiting to be picked apart, with every flaw exposed by masses of unrelenting fanatics. I liken it alot to The Matrix: Reloaded. It would be a good movie in its own right, but it was essentially doomed by the first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylilin Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 I think both Episodes 1 and 2 are highly underrated as movies. When Episode 3 comes out I think it will instantly raise the quality of the first two movies. The Star Wars story is a long and complicated one which I think had to take 2 full length motion pictures to explain. The culmination of these first two movies which will be Episode 3 will bring a lot of things to light that were not previously thought of. On the other hand... The script for AotC could have used some fine tuning. But I liked the movie in any case. I think the biggest fault of Attack of the Clones was that the lightsaber fight at the end was a bit of a let down, despite the awesome presence of Yoda. TPM had the best lightsaber fight we as Star Wars fans had ever seen. The choreography involved must have taken months to perfect, and perfect it they did. The sequence between Obi-Wan and Maul after Qui Gon was killed was simply amazing. And that leads me to my final gripe about the prequels. I guess its not so much a gripe since it was essential to the progression of the story. But I think Qui Gon Jinn was such a great character, a Jedi Master who was a bit of a maverick. He didn't always go with the status quo, which was refreshing to see. I was sorry to see him killed by a punk like Maul. hopefully we'll see Qui Gon appear in the Third installment of the Star Wars line the same way as Obi-Wan did after he was killed by Vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherack Nhar Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Really, the originals had many of the same acting problems and corny lines and all, but those are already classics we know and love; we don't have a chance to criticize them. But the new ones are fresh meat, just waiting to be picked apart, with every flaw exposed by masses of unrelenting fanatics. I never thought that would happen, but... Tie Guy's points are dead-on. I couldn't have worded it better myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compa_Mighty Posted July 28, 2003 Author Share Posted July 28, 2003 Well that's very true. Very good points guys. Kylilin, I agree, they'll look a lot better after Episode 3, it looks like this last one is gonna be great. The only thing that can't be redeemed is the factory scene I mean, Lucas could really have found a better way to get the heroes captured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfnshannon Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 I think that George was on top of the game a long time ago. His story's really mattered to him. Now it seems as though he wants to impress us more with what he can do in special effects than what he can do to our hearts. There is something more "human" and touching in the last movies that made us love them so much. These "prequels" are good, but they just over do it a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 There was one of the web docs on the episode 2 2nd disc somewhere... i forget which one... where george said "the strength of the movie isn't in the script" that's pretty much a direct quote and pretty sad too... remember when he cared? one of the most sad things to me was the dexter jester scenario... again somewhere on dvd 2 they show how dexter came to be. now you'd think that as the director and creator of the movie he'd already have everything thought out in his head of how everything should look. BUT... when it comes time for dexter instead of saying "i want him to look like this" he goes into his little monster studio... and sees about 30 monster models and picks one out that he likes. it just seems like he has a monster studio and it making a non-scary monster movie with very little thought involved. seeing that part of the dvd was just a microcosm (sp?) of the movie to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Lucas is head of an Empire now. He does what he like and cares if he wants to care. I think he just tried to impress us with special effects like STTCT said.I too feel that he did not give the prequels the same feeling that the Originals did. The originals were important to him because nobody really believed in those movies and he had to fight for them...now he just sits there knowing we'll all watch the movies anyway... As for the Anakin/Padmé relationship: It's quite untrue to say that Jedi don't get to have relationships. I remember awhile back at the Star Wars forum when the same things came up. They say Jedi might get distracted by love and marriage but nobody ever stated that they might get distracted by mindless sex;) . As a conclusion Anakin and Obi-Wan probably...relieved their pulsions with people who pratices the oldest job in the world...so to speak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kioet Csuhen Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 TPM is the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad As a conclusion Anakin and Obi-Wan probably...relieved their pulsions with people who pratices the oldest job in the world...so to speak... Yes! Excellent conclusion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tie Guy Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad They say Jedi might get distracted by love and marriage but nobody ever stated that they might get distracted by mindless sex;) . As a conclusion Anakin and Obi-Wan probably...relieved their pulsions with people who pratices the oldest job in the world...so to speak... *shakes head* Problem number one with today's society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragon_Leon Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 sorry guys, thought i'd give you all a heads-up on this one being moved to it's proper place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Shears Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 Really, the originals had many of the same acting problems and corny lines and all, but those are already classics we know and love; we don't have a chance to criticize them. As much as I'd like to think this, I can't help but notice that the acting in the OT at least kept me awake and interested in what was going to happen to the characters. I can't say the same about some of the acting in AOTC [coughhaydenportmancough]. Give me whiny Luke over sleepy Anakin any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 i'm pretty surprised portman was as bad as she is... she's a very experienced actress and you'd expect better. do you think it's the green/blue screen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compa_Mighty Posted July 29, 2003 Author Share Posted July 29, 2003 I don't think so... she was acting with people most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 Jedi are forbidden to show favoritism in love, because they are devoted to the Will of the Force. But, lukeiamyourdad, you're also correct that it doesn't mean they have to be celibate. I believe this was a point Lucas made in an interview with Maxim Magazine. However, just because they can relieve that... ahem... tension... doesn't mean that the desire for an emotional relationship can be entirely suppressed. I think it's very telling of Anakin's arrogance, that through his ten years of training to overcome such desires, he's still harbored his love for Padme in secret. Maybe it's an act of rebellion. And after all these years of keeping a part of Padme with him, imagining what it would be like if they were together again... building up this fantastic relationship, thinking, poring over what he might say to her... and of course, the way he thinks of her evolves as he grows up and becomes more mature. I don't think it's any surprise that Anakin, at least, falls for her. Padme's side of the relationship is completely different. She's forgotten him, or at least still thinks of him as a little kid. The evidence for this is simple--do we ever see the pendant that Anakin gave her in TPM? Some people think this was an oversight on Lucas' part, but I think it's very telling. So, she's forgotten him... but at the same time, she's also lived this life that really doesn't allow for an emotional relationship. She's not encouraged not to, like the Jedi--but she's a workaholic. She's been too busy with her work to even move out of her parent's house! But then, after an assassination attempt, here she is, without anything to do but hide, with this cute guy who is infatuated with her. Anakin seduces her, and she gives in just long enough for him to get a kiss... then she breaks it off, just like that. I don't think she would've let the relationship go anywhere if she hadn't seen what his mother's death did to him. She sees him stepping very close to the Dark Side through his pain. She gets a glimpse of the demon within ("I killed them... every single one of them... not just the men, but the women... and the children... they're animals and I slaughtered them like animals!"). And she cares about life enough to want to pull him back from the edge. I think that's what the entire marriage is about--saving this guy from destroying himself, giving him something to live for. This is the kind of depth you can find in the Prequels. Like in TPM, if you blink, you can miss the greater plot, if you're just watching this movie and looking at what is on the surface, you might miss this amazing depth of character. Personally, after watching SW2 dozens of times, I think Hayden is one of the best actors to be attached to the Star Wars franchise. He plays the vital scenes spot-on. Portman could've done better, but it's not all about the script, or the acting or even the effects--it's about the story, the human drama, this mythical struggle updated for our time. Afterall, isn't that why we can look past the flaws in the OT, because something in it rings true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleto4_ryan Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 For me...most hated because it is sequels. I mean most fans are so fans of the old that cannot accept something new... OK... both films till now are just fine. The second one is one of the best of the six...i was stunned when i saw it. People speak of the first for not having too mucjh inside. I see it as a prologue and nothing else... Some say anakin should have been meaner....no he shouldn't...Anakin wasn't bad...he was just tricked to the dark side...(and many more thinks drive him to the darth vader position) as for the stone-perfoming... em...i think they should play this stone-perfoming as they talk and act as epic fairytale correct me if i am wrong...But wasn't Star wars always about telling a not-so good story. I mean come on...it's knights saving a princess. OK later there are some twists. Vader is the father of the knight and the princess is the twin sister. But mostly the films are a modern-sci-fi fairytale....with many effects for the little and big children. That's it's magic. Lucas used trhe same thingy to the new trilogy.... The funny thing is that the reasons people loved the first trilogy are the same reasons that they hated the second one. I mean. Has leia mush of a character development. The only ones that change over the 3 movies are mostly anakin and luke... In the new trilogy we have Anakin again, padme and Obi and Boba.... There wasn't any award wining nomination script ever....and that is the same in the new ones....And that's why i love the new...because they keep the old style and put more things... i ADORE the episode 2 because it's SO new...new spaceships, new planets, old planets, Jango fett, immersive battles. MANY clones. The DEATH STAR. Yoda's BATTLE ........etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 A couple more points, which really don't fit into my above rant The character development of Palpatine alone is worth the price of admission. We see how skilled at manipulation he is, just how far he went and how patient he was to be able to subvert this democracy and eradicate his enemies. We see that his arrogance in RotJ isn't just stupidity--this is a guy form whom everything has gone right. Every prediction he's made, every move he's made has been perfect thus far. It's a fluke that he's wrong this one, vital time! Watching the downfall of the Republic is what puts the Prequels slightly above the OT. This story is epic and relevant and isn't just empty action as some have suggested. And last, but not least... lightsabers. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack--which is WHY they have a lightsaber, to attack with. It's also a fantastic defensive weapon, if you have the skills to use it. The lightsaber is a deliberate weapon that builds disipline. An elegant weapon from a more civilized time. Why do the Jedi fight the Separatists when they can't fight a war for Amidala in SW1? It's simple. The Naboo invasion was a domestic affair. It's like posse comatatus. They were there to protect a sovereign leader. The Separatists are an outside threat, succeeding from the Republic they're sworn to protect, with the intention of not just taking over planets--but of destroying the Republic with their armies. The Jedi cannot stand by while this happens because they believe in the democratic Republic as being the system that is better for the people. It is an act of compassion to defend the Republic, which is why they mobilize en masse against the Successionists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleto4_ryan Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 As for papatine. For the first time we can see in the new trilogy how clever and manipulative he is...I mean i loved it...He is THE manipulor. He has the galaxy on his claws 10 years before the start of the Empire... But i think you search too much. There isn't those depth you have said to your last 2 posts. There is some depth but not so much...You try to find thinks that don't exist... Palpatine hasn't developed a thingy. Actually his plans are very clever cause they are very simple... Watching the downfall of the Republic is what puts the Prequels slightly above the OT. yep i agree to that...seeing the old republic fell is epic on its own...but not better from the first trilogy...the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Alright the OT is way better because when you watch it...you just get this feeling you don't get with the prequels. The OT was about a small resistence group fighting tyranny and oppression. This might seem cliché but so far Star Wars is one of the best movie to feature it(the OT I mean). If you watch closely you can almost see that the prequels are recycled material(not that they're bad but anyway you'll see). In TPM, it's a battle to liberate a small planet. The gungans(technolocaly weak) are fighting a technologicaly advanced enemy(trade fed). Doesn't that look like an Ewok vs. Empire confrontation. Still in TPM, Anakin flies into a big ship and destroys the main reactor(like wedge, lando and nien nunb from RotJ). Strangely, you see the big orb of the Trade federation control ship explose...big round thing exploding...ahem... In AotC, you can see a pursuit in an asteroid field...ESB flashback... In AotC, you see Anakin losing someone that's almost his whole life(besides Padmé)...flashback from Luke losing Ben, Owen and Beru... In AotC we see Anakin losing his right arm...flashback from ESB. Luke losing his right hand. The rest is still quite original but never as good as the OT will ever be. And Monk...since when does someone gets interested by Maxim Magazine's articles;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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