Benny Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Fan pessimism is only to be expected really, given lec's track record over the last few years, it’s a shield against disappointment and dashed hopes. Personally I treat good lec games like a white christmas - its good if it happens but you dont stand on the top of the hill with your sledge just in case. (Games not developed in-house are of course a different matter). It’s not like we've had a lot of titles to get excited about so yes, FT2's cancellation is disappointing but I do believe that had it come out our pessimism would be sadly vindicated. Its a hell of a thing to say, given that development didn’t really look that advanced but that’s fanboy pessimism for you. There was an air of 'generic-o-game' about it, yes that was mostly created by the graphics but it was what most of us were expecting too. Generic, atmosphere-devoid games just aren’t fun to play and this was FT2's biggest potential flaw. I always thought the FT1 plot was pretty crappy so I really wasn’t expecting much from FT2 and without a decent plot it would have been uncomfortably close to 'road rash with puzzles'. Speculation, isn’t it wonderful? I can say all this rubbish and now we'll never know if my rampant cynicism would have been justified. An E3-goer coming back and saying "FT2 fucking sucks" doesn't exactly make me want to give up the pessimism yet though. It must also be said that some people who are far bigger fanboys than I, were cautiously optimistic, saying things like 'well it has potential'. They were in denial though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Originally posted by RemiO Well... Schafer was joking... Tom Sarris was just the PR person, he didn't have anything to do with the development of the game. :~ Shh! I was on a roll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oystein Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Btw, who was project leader on FT2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 re: Syberia it actually sold very well in fact it's sold so well that microids announced it would focus more on creating adventure games in the near future the project lead of FT2 was Sean Clark, but he was co-writing it with someone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oystein Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 That explains it then. You can't expect much from the guy who ruined the best adventure game series ever created. Yes, I'm a MI fanboy of the Gilbert class if anyone wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizball Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 re: re: Syberia Syberia sold so well that the sequal is in the works already. Also Longest Journey 2 has been announced Point n' Click 2D IS NOT DEAD!!! Even in 3D with action elements it can be done well: Baphomet's Curse 3 - Sleeping Dragon out soon looks well... Maybe LEC should send some people to Revolution Studios to learn how it's done... So get your facts straight next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiN000 Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 okay, im in a bit of a hurry, so ill make this quick ... i just wanna comment on the Syberia thing. right, so i havent looked at the numbers, but u cant tell me that it sold very, very well (especially here in north america) ... i mean sure it might have sold better than most adventure games, but did it really sky-rocket up the charts ? maybe it did, but AFAIK, point-and-clicks havent sold that well in a long time the truth is that the genre isnt what it used to be ... its been taken over by other genres (like the fps genre) ... somebody has to do something to bring it back to its former glory ... y not LEC? If you say that we should let LucasArts try to make "something new", something "to take the industry by storm"... well... FT2 wasn't something like that AT ALL. It was "Tomb Raider"... it was "Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb", it was nothing original at all. how do u know that ... did u play it ? SiN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telarium Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 I think you all are avoiding the real issue here: What will become of the Mojo Meter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Re: Syberia again. The fact that it didn't skyrocket up the charts doesn't matter at all because the developers weren't expecting it to. As has been said before around here, adventure games are at this point most similar to small release independant films. They don't necesarilly have to look worse or be shorter than big budget extreme games that come out of studios like EA. And, unless they become a giant underground success and get re-released later on a far bigger scale even from a larger publisher (which isn't expected to happen and rarely does), the game is considered a success when it is popular at all, when the publisher makes enough profit back to fund a second game, etc. On these grounds Syberia was a complete success. It obviously didnt challenge Warcraft 3 for most popular PC game, but that wasn't its goal. It got good reviews from major magazines and websites, and lots of people bought it. Fortunately this is the attitude LucasArts seems to be taking with Sam & Max 2: aiming it right at the target audience of the first game, creating it on a low budget, hoping that it gets lucky and strikes a chord with the general public but not really caring too much if it doesn't because it didn't cost much and will likely make back all they spent on it. That is definitely not the attitude they took with FT2, and that may be part of what screwed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGH Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Well, Jake, if you're right about this, I hope they won't keep the budget TOO low either! I still want acceptable graphics, quality voice-overs, digital music and a few immerging cut-scenes. I don't want Sam and Max 2 to feel like a fan-adventure. Nothing against them, fan-adventures may be nice, but from a company like LucasArts I still expect some professionality! Although I'd immediately agree that the game doesn't need to compete with games such as Unreal in terms of visuals and engine (wit and gameplay ARE more important than graphics and engine), but I still like a solid game. cu, LGH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Er don't quote me on that, I'm mostly talking out of my ass but that's just the feeling I've got so far from a couple interviews and a presentation.. The game's a long long way off so who knows what it'll look like in finished form, or even what it'll look like when they start putting out beta screenshots. I wish LucasArts wouldn't do that. At least not ones that are obviously beta looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 I would prefer LEC target the original audience and get back their costs rather than aiming for a profit. it would show that they are still in it to make good games and not make more money. It would also, against all logic, produce a pretty quality game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamNMax Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Okay. Let me explain something to you people: Lucasarts is down the sh***er. You know why? Cause they're only good at make adventure games, but adventure games are dead. You know why? Because 93% of ******* gamers think that they suck. You know why? Cause they're dumbass's who can't figure out the puzzles. (Belive me, I know) So Lucasarts is forced to make action"/adventure" games. Because if they want to keep the business afloat, they have to stop with the adventure games. If there wern't the 93% of dumbass gamers, Lucasarts would gladly never make action game again. (outside of Star Wars games). It's not Lucasart's fualt, it's the 93% of dumbass gamer's fualt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiN000 Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 this is quite an interesting argument ... lets see ... I would prefer LEC target the original audience and get back their costs rather than aiming for a profit. it would show that they are still in it to make good games and not make more money. It would also, against all logic, produce a pretty quality game. well, thats all nice, but with that attitude would keep LEC open for exactly 2 months . i mean, a business NEEDS to make money to keep alive, and as much as they might want to make a good game, they need to make money. so i'd like to see a game that appeals to us (the target audience) AND the general public ... that would keep us happy and get LEC money. thats what i liked about full throttle 2. i remember reading one of the previews where they described a puzzle. u have to get into a hide-out, but the guard will only let the leader of their gang get in ... so first u try to imitate the guys voice but that doesnt work ... so instead, u beat the crap out of the leader, pick him up, drag him to the door, and get him to talk. voila, ur in the hide-out ... ... right, so it wasnt the most difficult puzzle ever , but it blended action & adventure better than any game ive ever seen. a little action & a little adventure ... i honestly think it wouldve made a fine game. the puzzles seemed fine. i think the problem must have been the flow of the game ... from the looks of it, the action didnt seem exciting enough ... seemed too much like Dance-Dance-Revolution (i could be wrong). i think combat more similar to Indiana Jones and the Emperors Tomb would have been great. im still kinda convinced that that full throttle hasnt been totally scraped. because i know how game development goes ... if the game had been totally crap, it would have NEVER been announced as it would have been scrapped at the prototype stage (first few months). but in the end, i think that none of this matters. because even if FT2 was released as a typical adventure game, people would STILL find something to complain about. remember with EFMI? typical adventure game, really funny, long enough, but it didnt feel like a monkey island game. so what does every1 do? forget about all the good features, and just pick on how it spoils the whole series and didnt "feel" right. so either way really, the developer loses out. as always, opinions are welcome SiN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andi Wan Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Originally posted by SiN000 i remember reading one of the previews where they described a puzzle. u have to get into a hide-out, but the guard will only let the leader of their gang get in ... so first u try to imitate the guys voice but that doesnt work ... so instead, u beat the crap out of the leader, pick him up, drag him to the door, and get him to talk. voila, ur in the hide-out ... ... right, so it wasnt the most difficult puzzle ever , but it blended action & adventure better than any game ive ever seen. a little action & a little adventure ... i honestly think it wouldve made a fine game. the puzzles seemed fine. Precisely. This game had a world of potential. Sean Clark and co. just dropped the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapcase Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Awww. Anyway, I'd just like to say The Dig sucked. Blatant attempt to cash in on the Myst-humourless-boardgame-puzzles crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elTee Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 The Dig did not suck, you idiot. It wasn't an attempt to cash in on anything, it was just another LucasArts plot-heavy adventure - except this one wasn't cartoony, and the jokes were less obvious. Its better than EMI by a mile. And Joshi, as much as you might not like this, LucasArts biggest commitment should be to the Star Wars fans. The company wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for the Star Wars movies, and there are millions more Star Wars fans than Monkey Island fans, or Grim Fandango fans. The fact that they used to make adventure games so often is that they were obviously good at them, and that genre was very popular in the early 90's. Adventure games lose popularity, LucasArts move on - simple. I don't blame them, and if that means there are more quality games like Rogue Squadron then I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Originally posted by Laserschwert because when FT2 was announced, it was announced as an adventure too, and I am not sure how much of these promises will become reality... FT2 was announced as an "action adventure for consoles." Everyone who was hoping for "graphic adventure for PC" sort of read that into the original 2 year old press release themselves, and have assumed LucasArts lied to them when the game turned actioney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebsmith Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I think it's been said or alluded to before in this thread but this cancellation makes me really wonder about LucasArts. I mean FT2 took a beating in these forums and it seems that all the interesting new titles by LA weren't produced in house. I'm not sure if they'll ever recapture the string of successes they had in the Gilbert/Grossman/Schafer glory days. It just seems like they're too beholden to the Star Wars franchise. Maybe this hurts them in terms of attracting creative talent. I thought Sean Clark (along with Stemmle) was a talented holdover from LA's golden era, but maybe it's too much to ask from one person to build on while fundamentally changing someone else's beloved creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samnmax221 Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 But all that work down the fricken tiolet pipe this pisses me off realy. I'm mad. Mad beyond words. I'm scared about what will happen to lucasarts after the last star wars movie is completed. {Unemployment line} The futures gonna suck if they don't get on the ball. (Sob!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telarium Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Originally posted by pebsmith It just seems like they're too beholden to the Star Wars franchise. Maybe this hurts them in terms of attracting creative talent. No, my guess is that it has more to do with the fact that LucasArts doesn't offer a competitive salary. More often than not, you end up getting what you pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueZTone Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 they'll prolly cash in with Galaxies so they can afford the lost effort on FT2 financially I guess.. they could think about making FT2 an outhouse production...when they're ready Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telarium Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Originally posted by QueZTone they could think about making FT2 an outhouse production...when they're ready I've heard a rumor that it's not completely unlikely that you'll see a third party developer doing a Full Throttle sequel in a year or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjack Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I guess if the game was gonna suck it's best they let it die. I hadn't really been following the development of it but if it was more of an action game then an adventure game I would have been pretty dissapointed. The question is, are we ever going to see a quality classic adventure game from LucasArts, or hell, ANYONE, ever again? Was Grim Fandango essentially the swan song of this beloved genre? It looks like that's essentially where we are at. I mean all we have to look forward to is SM2 now. I can barely even remember the first one. It's sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remi Posted August 11, 2003 Author Share Posted August 11, 2003 There are plenty of good adventure out there, and even more coming in the near future - Broken Sword 3, The Longest Journey 2 and Syberia 2 to name a few. The genre hasn't been in this good of a shape in years. Now LEC adventures, that may or may not be a different story. It'll be interesting to see what shape Sam & Max 2 takes, and what future adventure titles they'll announce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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