[thought about EMI]

Additional thought about EMI. When Curse didn't use

Spoiler

it all is theme park idea, anachronisms become nothing more than jokes.

Whole commerialization plot in EMI made anachronisms again relevant for world of Monkey Island.

[Mutiny on Monkey Island and MI3a]

Since Phatt is similar to governor Fat, i wonder did Ron originally plan to use him and more ideas from Mutiny in MI3a. If so there would have been additional reasons for Ron to make Return instead of MI3a -not only did Curse already use hellfire turning living into undead idea but Escape already used rich man tries to take control of Caribbean with supernatural means idea. 

[thought about EMI]

25 minutes ago, Gins said:

Curse tried the ship battle but lacked trust in it enough to allow players to skip it entirely.

 

 

 

I have not thought about it before, but maybe Curse team felt that lack ship battles was weakness of Ron's games. (It is interesting that ship battles are part of means to

Spoiler

get ready to fight Rottingham. In more serious games ship battles would be part of every day life of pirate protagonist.)

 

[Giant monkey head]

I used to think that EMI version was there for grander finale, but now i realised that pop culture aware guys like Clark and Stemmle probably got King Kong reference and built on it.

[Giant monkey head]

Giant monkey head in MI is reference to King Kong. Regarding EMI

Spoiler

giant robots (including Mechani-Kong) are part of Japanese monster movies, thus EMI version of giant monkey head is another monster movie reference.

 

[thought about EMI]

EMI has story with comedy mystery elements with all those things Guybrush has to investigate 

Spoiler

(who was eager to declare Elaine dead, what is connection between LeCharles and Mandrill and what their plan is etc. Even subplot is about uncovering who framed Guybrush in bank robbery).

Maybe it would have been better game if it had game play of mystery game also? I mean, maybe it should had individual locations open up during investigation instead of each chapter having locations to explore from start and maybe it should had dialog system with new topics constantly opening up when Guybrush uncovers new info? (Stemmle and Clark used those game play devices successfully in Hit the Road after all.)

[What to play next]

Maybe there are old threads suggesting games, but anyway...

Simon the Sorcerer 1,2 -English equivalent of humor of MI, especially Simon the Sorcerer 2.

Freddy Pharkas -parody of westerns. (Beware, there are deaths and tedious copy protection.)

I would also suggest Touché: The Adventures of the Fifth Musketeer but i don't know if it sold anywhere.

[Your favorite Monkey Island game]

3 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

And using this criteria, can we call King's Quest a parody game? Defeating a dragon with a bucket of water, and all that?

Mentioning KQ games made me think. Have you ever played first two Simon Sorcerer games? To me they are more similar of Ron's MI games than any other adventure game including LucasArts ones. And they are sending up fairy tale tropes unlike KQ games that use fairy tale elements mostly sincerely.

[Your favorite Monkey Island game]

2 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

Well, I have heard MI1 compared to the parody film Airplane! before. I do kind of see your point, but...

 

Out of all the pirate and adventure stories that Secret pulls from ... What do The Three Trials of piracy parody? What does the circus and cannon-firing sequence parody? What do the references to past tourism parody (Meathook, Swordmaster, the Monkey Head)? Buying a ship from Stan comes from an actual used car salesman... is this an adventure/pirate trope that gets parodied? What about using a voodoo spell to reach a mystery island instead of conventionally sailing there? What about the hell caverns of faces, hands, and mushrooms, and the bad guy's ghost ship anchored in lava?

 

And using this criteria, can we call King's Quest a parody game? Defeating a dragon with a bucket of water, and all that?

I have feeling we both write in adventuregamers.com forum and do it under different usernames than we use here.

Anyway, wannabe pirate going to trials etc. is subversion of stereotype of pirate like afro-american sheriff in Blazing Saddles is subversion of stereotype of sheriff in westerns. Circus that pirates visit subverts pirates as tough people stereotype. Monetizing pirate theme is satire on very same thing that inspired this games, Disney parks. (Meathook having hooks for both hands and way he lost them is itself another joke this time about stereotypical pirate handicaps. Jokes about those handicaps keep popping up in future games, both Ron's and other designers').  

[Your favorite Monkey Island game]

I am not going to rate 'em but this seems to be good place to discuss them. SOMI is parody game to me (strength of grog and role of insults in swrodfight are exaggerated,

Spoiler

damsel in distress cliche is mocked and satirized etc.)

and i have hard time to understand how anyone can see it as swashbuckling adventure and not as send up of one. 

Spoiler

Since parody is meta-genre, it would have made perfect sense if they would have put meta ending in this one.

LeChuck's Revenge added darker comedy but still made fun of looking for treasure cliche. (Classic swashbuckling stories are  done from point of view of heroic guy so despite wanting to be pirate Guybrush often ends up following footsteps of Jim Hawkins.) Like its genre (is it parody or just comedy?) its ending is ambiguous.

My main problem with Curse is that to me its links to previous games seem weak.

Spoiler

Handing Elaine cursed ring is too on nose example of screwing things up, after SOMI satirized damsel in distress cliche making Elaine literally an object (golden statue) that can be stolen is especially lame and game omits whole Voodoo Lady telling Guybrush that Big Whoop is secret to another world thing. 

Escape has more biting humor than Curse to me but is more flawed as whole. (Its plot can almost be seen as jab on Curse for  sanitizing MI series.) 

Spoiler

About monkey robot, to me it seems like answer to revelation of Curse -if Big Whoop can be carnival ride then big monkey head can as well be part of robot.

Tales heart is in good place but i think developers felt restricted by MI franchise and had to make up new mythology that isn't very convincing.

[How i understood LeChuck's Revenge when i played it first time]

8 hours ago, Gins said:

I found it weird that they were brothers. Spell.

That Mêlée is reachable through the elevator? Spell.

The treasure being a ticket? Spell.

 

And I was disappointed, and was so happy when CMI explained it all away.

 

Only years later did I understand the implications. And MI2 became layer after layer discovered and peeled back my favorite MI game and one of my favourites, period.

Spoiler

Hmm, but how did you understood Voodoo Lady's words that Big Whoop is secret to another world back then? What irked me about Curse was that it didn't address those words or fact that Voodoo Lady sent you after Big Whoop.

 

[How i understood LeChuck's Revenge when i played it first time]

My memory is little muddy on details but i think i played LeChuck's Revenge first time few years later than it came out.

Spoiler

I didn't consider possibility that  pirate's world could be fantasy world back then, so i thought that words of Voodoo Lady meant Guybrush could literally escape to another world if he would find Big Whoop. When game ended i assumed that LeChuck somehow followed him to that world. (I probably had read some fantasy with parallel universe where protagonist from our world had her own place, it seemed natural to me that Guybrush and LeChuck would replace their counterparts in another world.) Everything made sense -LeChuck had those eyes because he is supernatural being and Elaine made uninformed guess when she assumed that LeChuck put curse on Guybrush. I was sure that in sequel LeChuck would easily go back to pirate world and Guybrush should find components of spell in universe that is pretty much ours to follow LeChuck and confront him there.

 

 

[LeChuck's Revenge and MI3a]

Spoiler

So, if MI3a would have been about Guybrush following LeChuck to hell, are there any signs of in in LeChuck's Revenge? It is interesting that things get weird first time when Guybrush hits his head and sees his parents skeleton dancing. It might foreshadowing of Guybrush falling after telling her story to Elaine and things getting even weirder. By that i don't mean Guybrush hits  his head second time but possibility that in game universe unconsciousness might mean soul leaving body for short time and death soul leaving body for good. That would mean that Guybrush might have fell into coma after falling from create height under Dinky Island and sewers might be transitory please between life and death. (Not hell itself since LeChuck as undead wouldn't be in hell yet and he still struggles to send Guybrush to dimension of infinite pain meaning Guybrush isn't in that dimension yet.) Oh, and you get name Stan by moving one letter a from Satan.

 

[Root beer (i think it is better that people reading this post have finished RTMI)]

8 minutes ago, Gins said:

Would be cool but so would water or grog. Also it was established in MI2, that root beer only works on ghosts, not zombies, as you can douse LeChuck in it and he doesn't die. (The new leaders didn't get the memo though 😂)

Spoiler

It might be even more farfetched, but what would be equivalent of new form of undead in case of destroyed animatronic ghost that unreliable person thought was real? Maybe person in undead costume. In that case guard who wears LeChuck costume foreshadows fact that Chuckie is really wearing costume.

8 minutes ago, Gins said:

 

Related to root beer though, something that I've missed maybe throughout my many playthroughs:

What are the hints that root beer is a substitute for the magic voodoo root?

 

Just the color and the "root" in its name? Or were there more elaborate clues?

Spoiler

Why is root beer in grog machine in first place? Maybe because fact that in theme park they would serve non alcoholic beverage only. Anyway, if voodoo root and its uses are established lore in park, someone taking it all too seriously would look for liquid that has root in it to fight ghost. Either that  or it is representative of good enough substitute mentality that solutions in that game seems to follow sometimes.

 

 

[Root beer (i think it is better that people reading this post have finished RTMI)]

I don't know how seriously i should take my own thought, but i can't un-think it now.

Spoiler

Root beer is liquid and liquid would short circuit electronic machinery like animatronics.

 

[Possible hidden puzzle]

2 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

Please tell me more about the "Elaine! Thank god you are here!" line. Are you saying it only appears sometimes? I wasn't understanding you.

When you choose any other line while speaking with Elaine (including good bye), option to choose line "Elaine! Thank god you are here!" disappears.

[Possible hidden puzzle]

Is there hidden puzzle in game?

Spoiler

There is note at International House of Mojo that at face value seems to explain colors on price tags. It says following -green half off, blue half of half off, yellow half of half of half off, orange you glad you are here? Displays in carnival at end of game are marked by colors and you have to turn those displays off. It is not possible to turn off half of half of half of four displays -less than one display. But maybe there is some other logic in dealing with number of displays. And there are other possible things that note can hint at. Both Otis and rat in front of locksmith shop can stopped at different points on their tracks by turning displays off. (Well, rat in alley can sort of manipulated to by leaving alley in right moment.) Colored signs are not very clear which display is marked with which color. It seems that Otis track is kind of short for stopping him on finer points but maybe it matters that he passes it twice. And tracks have different lengths so half of half off may mean that number of sections of of Otis' track is roughly half of number of sections of track of rat in front of locksmith. About being glad line on note, there is option to say “Elaine! Thank god you are here!” while talking with Elaine in carnival and while signs in carnival aren’t very clear Elaine might stand in front of orange display.  (That line disappears even if you talk to her and use some other line.) But church may also be orange display and drawn arrow under sign points at church.  You can walk onto church stairs and Guybrush asks to renew their vows and Elaine says not this time. (You can do this one time only.)