[MOD] EAW: Open Conflict

[Tal Odo-ki]

That hurts

Those stations have been invented for EAW, they are no known category or type so we can't know if they have anti-fighter weapons

Besides I think those stations are strong enough that they don't have to fear a few fighters. The large lasers are not as inaccurate as the turbolasers and no squadron lives very long within the firing range of a level 5 station, point-defense or not.

I posted the stats for 5 types of Imperial stations (not to be confused with the 5 levels in EAW). All of them have anti-fighter armaments. Just to be clear, let me emphasize: in Star Wars, ALL space stations have anti-fighter defenses. In every single EU novel or SWRPG book that has stations.

[Adonnay]

Umm actually it is, at least in 008.

 

 

HardPoints>HP_Acclamator_Weapon_FL, HP_Acclamator_Weapon_FR, HP_Acclamator_Weapon_FC, HP_Acclamator_Weapon_BL, HP_Acclamator_Weapon_BR, HP_Acclamator_Weapon_BC, HP_Acclamator_Anti_Fighter_FL, HP_Acclamator_Anti_Fighter_FR, HP_Acclamator_Anti_Fighter_BL, HP_Acclamator_Anti_Fighter_BR, HP_Acclamator_Engines, HP_Acclamator_Fighter_Bay, [b]HP_Acclamator_Hull[/b]</HardPoints> 

 

Note: Its the last entry.

 

Or you can just make the hardpoint not destroyable.

 

Erm... this is MY actual version... (no I didn't just change it ):

 

<HardPoints>
     HP_Acclamator_Weapon_FL,
     HP_Acclamator_Weapon_FR,
     HP_Acclamator_Weapon_FC,
     HP_Acclamator_Weapon_BL,
     HP_Acclamator_Weapon_BR,
     HP_Acclamator_Weapon_BC,
     HP_Acclamator_Anti_Fighter_FL,
     HP_Acclamator_Anti_Fighter_FR,
     HP_Acclamator_Anti_Fighter_BL,
     HP_Acclamator_Anti_Fighter_BR,
     HP_Acclamator_Engines,
     HP_Acclamator_Fighter_Bay
   </HardPoints>

[Meethos]

That would be great... to have an overview of all the numbers would help alot in balancing I think. Right now I'm doing this by browsing through all the ship files which is... umm... time consuming

No Problem, just let me know what you want them of. Also do you me to just post them in forums or email them to you. The last list I did just made it up in notepad and copy and pasted it (had nice columns too, but they got parsed out).

 

Edit: Ok I'll download 008 again and see.

 

Edit2: Well its gone now, guess I had 007 then, could've sworn I downloaded 008, unless I did and forgot to install it. Well disregard my above post. And the list I created is from 007 then(hope you didn't make any big changes to hardpoints recently). Boy do I feel sheepish... Unless you've made changes since originally posting 008.

 

Edit3:

Erm... if I find it. Where exactly did you see this?

Well I must have had an old version, cause its not there either, honest the version I had had these thing still in them. I'm not going crazy... At least I hope I'm not.

 

Edit4: When you say all the numbers which ones do you mean. Really ALL then numbers or just Specific ones? I can make a list up in excel for you if like.

[Adonnay]

Not all the numbers... the relevant ones:

Health, shield, recharge, price and something like damage per second or something comparable.

 

Problem is I don't have Excel though

 

Anyway... bedtime for me... *yawns*. Today I wasn't very productive... but it seems rocketeer was... wonder what numbers he will come up with, this time

[Meethos]

Here's what I was thinking:

<Damage>

<Max_Speed>

<Max_Rate_Of_Turn>

<Max_Rate_Of_Roll>

<Bank_Turn_Angle>

<Max_Thrust>

<Hyperspace_Speed>

<Tech_Level>

<Required_Star_Base_Level>

<Autoresolve_Health>

<Tactical_Health>

<Shield_Points>

<Shield_Refresh_Rate>

<Squadron_Capacity>

<Build_Cost_Credits>

<AI_Combat_Power>

<Build_Time_Seconds>

<Space_FOW_Reveal_Range>

<Targeting_Max_Attack_Distance>

<Population_Value>

<Armor_Type>

<Shield_Armor_Type>

<Ship_Class>

<Formation_Priority>

<Attack_Move_Response_Range>

<Targeting_Stickiness_Time_Threshold>

<Targeting_Priority_Set>

<Guard_Chase_Range>

<Idle_Chase_Range>

 

Let me know if you want me to add or remove anything from this list.

[rocketeer]

Im done with a pre pre version of the new shield/armor/abilities values, i raised the shields a bit, and tried to stay close to canon. Some(most) values where attained through wild guessing and gut feeling, thats why im posting them so you can correct them .

 

Please note that only ships of the same class are directly comparable, and even then there might be differences in armor resistances(5000 shields on a venator is not the same as 5000 shields on a victory).

 

Home one:

20000 Armor, 45000 Shields, 100 shieldrecharge, 25 boost duration, 0.037 boost interval, 120 sec ability reload, Engine 0.5 and weapons 0.5 while using the boost

 

Liberty:

8000 Armor, 15000 Shields, 42 shieldrecharge, 25 boost duration, 0.09 boost interval, 60 sec ability reload, Engine 0.5 and weapons 0.5 while using the boost

 

MC 80:

8000 Armor, 12000 Shields, 30 shieldrecharge, 25 boost duration, 0.07 boost interval, 60 sec ability reload, Engine 0.3 and weapons 0.3 while using the boost

 

Venator:

7040 Armor, 5000 Shields, 55 shieldrecharge, freely toggleable boost, 0.2 boost interval, Engine 0.1 and weapons 0.1 while using the boost

 

Assault MK II:

4000 Armor, 3500 Shields, 40 shieldrecharge, 10 boost duration, 0.085 boost interval, 30 sec ability reload, Engine 1.0 and weapons 0.5 while using the boost

 

Nebulon B:

2000 Armor, 2000 Shields, 30 shieldrecharge, 25 boost duration, 0.1 boost interval, 30 sec ability reload, Engine 0.5 and weapons 0.5 while using the boost

 

ISD:

9280 Armor, 11000 Shields, 100 shieldrecharge

 

Victory:

6000 Armor, 5000 Shields, 60 shieldrecharge

 

Acclamator:

3200 Armor, 2800 Shields, 30 shieldrecharge

 

I have not thought much about the other ships yet, but i would like to make corvettes/tartans weaker vs frigates and especially capital ships. The imperials will most likely need a boost to their special abilitys aswell to overcome the rebels, will test that tomorrow.

 

The shieldrecharge value is the one i use to more or less freely 'adjust' how the shields of a ship develop the longer it stays in the battle. After 60 seconds of fighting for example a ISD and a Liberty will be very close in shieldstrenght, provided they get fired at by the same object, a spacestation for example.

 

This balance is then intended to be shifted around by the use of special abilities(they all should have a good side and a bad side, they shouldnt be a nobrainer to use). The home one is very tough atm, especially its shieldboost. The trick to bring it down would be to focus fire on it, cause once its shields are broken it cannot use its boost ability anymore.

 

P.S. I tried to make the units a bit unique, even though all rebel ships have the same shield boost ability there are vast differences between them. From the vast power of the home one that can replenish half its shields every 2 min, over the assault MK II that can replenish great amounts in relative short time and has no speed penalty doing so(tactical retreat), to the steady but slow shieldboost the venator has, at the expense of everything else ... i tell you not even the toilets work if you turn the ability on .

 

Getting late here too, will tomorrow start finetuning this.

 

P.P.S. Im aware that the rebels got a boost on their special abilities in some cases, i will try doing the same for the imperials.

 

Edit: The numbers behind weapons and engines are multipliers, Engines 0.8 and weapons 0.5 for example would mean that the ship moves at 80% of its speed and has 50% of its firepower. Boost interval is a modifier for the time between shieldincreases, 0.1 for example means it takes only 10% of the time, or in other words 0.3 sec instead of 3 sec.

[wolfshadow]

Adonnay: If I want to tweak the pop. cap. values for my own use, where do I look for that... For some reason, I haven't been able to pick that up... I can fark around with almost everything else, but haven't figger'd that little thing out.. *G*

 

Thanks.

[rocketeer]

What kind of variable is weapon_delay? Is it the time between two shots or some other figure? Also it would be nice if we could give stations automatic boni like those heros give, to give the defender a advantage.

 

Edit: Got it,strange that there doesnt seem to be any noticable difference between 1.0 and 10.0 on a venator, apart from the fact it stops launching fighters ... 0.1 on the other hand has a extreme effect on the guns.

[haard]

Problem is I don't have Excel though

 

OpenOffice.org is nice, free, and reads Excel files.

 

 

By the way, are you using a text editor to edit those XMLs? I could whip together an XML editor that would merge the interesting files and make them editable in a table if you like.

[haard]

also, this disappeared in the static:

How about instead of having fog of war displaced forever, increasing the view range for units (especially ships and infantry) so that they have 'unlimited' range?

 

I think that would fit better than the current solution, since I belive that a lot of weapons are aimed more or less manually because of the high intensity of EW, it makes sense that you should be able to hide behind obstacles.

[Tal Odo-ki]

Haard has a point. The current "forever" method has the downside that if you reload, you lose whatever you unfogged. If units have unlimited view range, then that problem goes away.

[rocketeer]

Unlimited view range might get problematic cause the view range in nebulas for example is calculated by a multiplier.

[haard]

Unlimited view range might get problematic cause the view range in nebulas for example is calculated by a multiplier.

 

Is the multiplier moddable? In that case it would still be doable - since 'unlimited' can be a fixed value equal to map size diagonally, it should be possible to set the desired view range for obstacles?

[Tal Odo-ki]

I'm much more concerned about a fix for the view range-reset-upon-reload problem in ground battles. I don't think I've ever reloaded a space battle.

[Adonnay]

Adonnay: If I want to tweak the pop. cap. values for my own use, where do I look for that... For some reason, I haven't been able to pick that up... I can fark around with almost everything else, but haven't figger'd that little thing out.. *G*

 

Thanks.

 

It's found in all ship definitions and is called <Population_Value>.

If you want to change the boni you get from stations its a tag called <Additional_Population_Capacity>.

 

By the way, are you using a text editor to edit those XMLs? I could whip together an XML editor that would merge the interesting files and make them editable in a table if you like.

That surely sounds interesting, editing the values in a kind of table would be alot easier I think. I'm using MS' Visual Web Developer right now. It's basically an enhanced text editor. The feature I use the most is the ability to collapse corresponding tags to get me some badly needed overview.

 

Unlimited view range might get problematic cause the view range in nebulas for example is calculated by a multiplier.

Good point. Then we should change both accordingly (view range times 10 and the multiplyier divided by 10 i.e.).

[rocketeer]

Good point. Then we should change both accordingly (view range times 10 and the multiplyier divided by 10 i.e.).

 

Would have to be tested, the multipier for nebulas is afaik already below 1, i made some strange expiriences with really small values.

[Adonnay]

Here's what I was thinking:

<Damage>

<Max_Speed>

<Max_Rate_Of_Turn>

<Max_Rate_Of_Roll>

<Bank_Turn_Angle>

<Max_Thrust>

<Hyperspace_Speed>

<Tech_Level>

<Required_Star_Base_Level>

<Autoresolve_Health>

<Tactical_Health>

<Shield_Points>

<Shield_Refresh_Rate>

<Squadron_Capacity>

<Build_Cost_Credits>

<AI_Combat_Power>

<Build_Time_Seconds>

<Space_FOW_Reveal_Range>

<Targeting_Max_Attack_Distance>

<Population_Value>

<Armor_Type>

<Shield_Armor_Type>

<Ship_Class>

<Formation_Priority>

<Attack_Move_Response_Range>

<Targeting_Stickiness_Time_Threshold>

<Targeting_Priority_Set>

<Guard_Chase_Range>

<Idle_Chase_Range>

 

Let me know if you want me to add or remove anything from this list.

Looks great... what I would not include is Formation_Priority, Targeting_Stickiness_Time_Threshold (what is that anyway) or the chase ranges. Or at least put them somewhere far back Those values might be important for some vessels (fighters i.e.) but quite unimportant for others.

[Adonnay]

@rocketeer: Your values look very promising. I'm looking forward to the result and how it does under "real" conditions

 

What concerns me a little is that the Nebulon got quite a boost shield and hitpoint wise, so did the Assault Frigate. Especially the AF is now stronger than the Acclamator wich costs 2000 credits more than the AF.

 

What I will most definetely not do is the toggle for the venator's shield boost since I don't want to crippe the usability of this ship for the AI by practically immobilizing it because the AI is too dumb (in this case, no offence Petro *g*) to see its tactical use. If I wanted to do that I could reduce the speed to 0.1, that'd be fair for all players at least

 

Apart from that, keep it going, I will add the changes to a special "test" version so all can try them out and discuss the result. Or you can send me the changed files so I don't need to do all changes you did already again.

[Adonnay]

As per request I've added a few anti fighter cannons to the bases level 1 and 2 (more would be a bit much I think). But don't come to me and complain about fighters beeing cannonfodder even more than before. No one's going to buy bombers anymore

[rocketeer]

The toggle for the venators shield boost is giving me headache anyway, i will try around with it a bit and see how it works out, but i dont think it will work.

 

The nebulon did recieve a boost, but it still dies pretty easy to the acclamator. Just had a match against the AI and the acclamator easily handles 2-3 of them, the values posted here are from yesterday some got changed a bit already and the weapon boost of the imperials also got some love to make it as useful as the shield boost ability of the rebels.

 

The Assault mk II is strong against the Acclamator as its depicted in its tooltip. Since this vessel is bad vs fighters, corvettes and capital ships and doesnt even have a fighter wing it would be pretty worthless if it couldnt even be used to counter the acclamators the AI likes to built so much. It has a strong punch, but gets really fast killed by a victory or several Acclamators. 4000hp with frigate armor and shields is not really that much.

 

I also removed the shielddegration while weapon boosting for all imperials, they get less engines and 0 shieldrecharge while using it. The ISD also got the ability to boost its weapons, and has the least downside to actually using it. This is to counter the massive shields of the Mon Cals, he also has the longest boost duration.

 

P.S. I tried to prolong the battles a bit, most ships got a bit tougher, apart from the corvettes. Once their shields are down turbolasers really get unhealthy for them.

 

Edit: I really thought the rebellion lacked a ship to handle acclamators at lower lvls, the ai likes to mass them, and the only effective ships against them where capital ships which are quite hard to attain. Victory is not that much of a problem cause its more expensive.

 

Edit2: Going to prepare a test version once im satisfied .

 

Edit3: Acclamator are atm tech lvl 2 in skirmish it seems, thats a bit hard for the rebellion since they dont get a comparable ship until tech lvl 4, and the marauder cruiser is a bit expensive, considering its performance .

[Meethos]

Looks great... what I would not include is Formation_Priority, Targeting_Stickiness_Time_Threshold (what is that anyway) or the chase ranges. Or at least put them somewhere far back Those values might be important for some vessels (fighters i.e.) but quite unimportant for others.

 

Okay will do. Speaking of Chase Ranges would it be possible to get that increased for all fighters, so they dont sit out of the battle, I notice quite often my fighters will just stop after eliminating a target instead of rejoining the battle. Same with when fighters are newly launched from Ships.

[Killer_Man]

Plz... how to change the prices of the ships....

The capital ships are too expensive....

Change the price or change the credit value is the key...but how?

[Meethos]

Plz... how to change the prices of the ships....

The capital ships are too expensive....

Change the price or change the credit value is the key...but how?

 

In SPACEUNITSCAPITAL.XML ( use these SPACEUNITSFIGHTERS.XML, SPACEUNITSFRIGATES.XML, or SPACEUNITSCORVETTES.XML to edit other ships) find the ship you'd like to edit then look for these tags:

 

For Galactic conquest change these (AI_Combat_Power should be the same as the build price):

 

<Build_Cost_Credits>

<AI_Combat_Power>

 

For skirmishes change this:

 

<Tactical_Build_Cost_Multiplayer>

[Adonnay]

Edit3: Acclamator are atm tech lvl 2 in skirmish it seems, thats a bit hard for the rebellion since they dont get a comparable ship until tech lvl 4, and the marauder cruiser is a bit expensive, considering its performance .

Acclamators are tech 2, yes. As I've just seen the same problem I've just moved the rebel AF from 4 to 3 and also reduced the gunboat one techlevel.

 

Concerning the test version I'll have to copy your entries anyway since I've made a few changes by now too.

[Adonnay]

Okay will do. Speaking of Chase Ranges would it be possible to get that increased for all fighters, so they dont sit out of the battle, I notice quite often my fighters will just stop after eliminating a target instead of rejoining the battle. Same with when fighters are newly launched from Ships.

 

Sure thing... I thought of making the garrison units special versions (copies) of the existing ones with a much larger chase radius so you can leave them without a babysitter for a while at least without touching the built units (who might do something you don't really want to).