[MOD] EAW: Open Conflict

[Adonnay]

Sorry you Pm'd me after I went to bed, but I just fired it off a few minutes ago, should have it in your inbox now. Now to get started on the Fighters Table.

Thanks!

 

Sounds good to me, but if we do this gonna need to improve AA weapons cause right now they seem to be lacking. If more than just fighters get updated, the turbo lasers need to improved, shouldn't be hard for them hitting a big slow, lumbering ship as it manuevers through the atmosphere.

One problem came up during those tweaks you mentionned. Targeting.

Right now there's only one category for flying vehicles: Air

Which means... everything that can aim at air targets will have the same hit chance at small fighters and large corvettes.

[DCorris]

Thanks

 

I think it should be quite easy to add fighters to ground battles... the question is more if you want it. I mean to handle two different "planes" of fighting is quite demanding. It would add alot of chaos and even more management and attention would be necessary to overcome it.

 

well i would like to see how well it would work and hope it woudlnt get too complicated, no matter how cool lol

i would think it would be about as complicated as controlling snowspeeders, so they would be able to attack other units, but what i want to know is if they could attack each other?

[Adonnay]

In the X-Wing novels their were a few instances of atmospheric combat. Though your right, its not what they were designed for. Then there all the Rogue Squadron Games......

I think what he meant to say that they are not suited for ground attacks (strafing and such). They can still hunt other fighters in the atmosphere...

 

 

edit:

...but what i want to know is if they could attack each other?

Sure, land battles are handled similar to spacebattles... just with different vehicle categories (of course they differe in more than just that, but that's the most obvious).

[Tal Odo-ki]

In the X-Wing novels there were a few instances of atmospheric combat. Though your right, its not what they were designed for. Then there all the Rogue Squadron Games......

Those novels all involve Rogue Squadron, an elite formation of the galaxy's best pilots. Not something appropriate to base typical usage upon. It'd be like saying that Han Solo is a typical smuggler, or Boba Fett is a typical bounty hunter. Hardly!

[Meethos]

One problem came up during those tweaks you mentionned. Targeting.

Right now there's only one category for flying vehicles: Air

Which means... everything that can aim at air targets will have the same hit chance at small fighters and large corvettes.

I guess as far as air go increase the accuracy of the build pad AA's and have a low value for the Turbo Laser. I don't know about other sources (I'm sure Tal could tell us), but in the X-Wing novels if a fighter was hit by a direct turbo laser blast, it was vaporized (shields & all). So if Tal agrees, we should increase the damage the turbo laser does. On that same not has the Turbo Laser been updated with accurate stats (from Tal)?

[DCorris]

Sure, land battles are handled similar to spacebattles... just with different vehicle categories (of course they differe in more than just that, but that's the most obvious).

 

thats cool to know

and like is being discussed, i know its not perfectly cannon to have the fighters, or whatever is used, to attack ground targets like troops and such like, for example what the snowspeeders are used for

but the fighters would have to pose some kind of threat to some ground units otherwise there would be no reason to worry about them flying above ur head

[Tal Odo-ki]

I don't know about other sources (I'm sure Tal could tell us), but in the X-Wing novels if a fighter was hit by a direct turbo laser blast, it was vaporized (shields & all). So if Tal agrees, we should increase the damage the turbo laser does. On that same not has the Turbo Laser been updated with accurate stats (from Tal)?

Depends on the turbolaser. A standard ISD I turbolaser (5d10x5) isn't powerful enough to kill an X-wing (unless you roll better than average), much less the better-protected Y-wing. But it can do so if the pilot is unlucky. The more powerful ISD II turbolasers (7d10x5) can (on average) kill even Y-wings with a single hit. Neither type of ISD turbolaser, unless it scores a critical hit (bypassing shields) can vaporize an X/Y-wing. However, the heavy turbolasers (10d10x5) on the Death Star can, indeed, vaporize any rebel starfighter at the Battle of Yavin with just one hit.

[Tal Odo-ki]

but the fighters would have to pose some kind of threat to some ground units otherwise there would be no reason to worry about them flying above ur head

The threat to ground targets from starfighters comes from their missiles, not their lasers. Unless a starfighter blows chunk of a building apart with their lasers (or missiles). The resulting rain of masonry tends to be lethal.

[rocketeer]

Well im mostly done, tbh i was waiting for a comment on weapon delay. Cause if its not working i have to rebalance the rebels since they would only have one penalty ...

[exar-kun]

Mornin' All -.-

 

How's the spawning of ships in land battles comin' along there Adonnay?

[exar-kun]

Well im mostly done, tbh i was waiting for a comment on weapon delay. Cause if its not working i have to rebalance the rebels since they would only have one penalty ...

 

Sry, been busy, but ill try to get on it as soon as I can

[rocketeer]

Depends on the turbolaser. A standard ISD I turbolaser (5d10x5) isn't powerful enough to kill an X-wing (unless you roll better than average), much less the better-protected Y-wing. But it can do so if the pilot is unlucky. The more powerful ISD II turbolasers (7d10x5) can (on average) kill even Y-wings with a single hit. Neither type of ISD turbolaser, unless it scores a critical hit (bypassing shields) can vaporize an X/Y-wing. However, the heavy turbolasers (10d10x5) on the Death Star can, indeed, vaporize any rebel starfighter at the Battle of Yavin with just one hit.

 

I dont think those numbers are canon in the sense the movies are, a single Star destroyers is capable of performing a maneuver called "Base Delta Zero", it basicly turns the complete surface of a planet into a flaming ruin. Since the total number of turbolasers is known its possible to make a assumption on the average strength of a turbolasers. Also it was shown in the movies how turbolaser hits from a ISD vaporized asteroids of over 40m diameter, that would mean a supersonic heat dispersion cause the roid had no time to explode.

 

Since your a physic the number of 2.5million terrawatt should tell you something . A fighter hit by that should be instantly vaporized, shields or not.

 

P.S.:

Volume of asteroid = 4188.79 m³

Mass of asteroid = 32,965,759 kg

Heat Capacity of iron = 447 J/kg·K

Initial temp of asteroid = ~200 K, normal for objects in space

Final temp of asteroid = 1853 K for melting

Energy for vaporisation of 1 kg of iron: 7.6 megajoules

 

With this we can calculate a rough figure of around 30 terajoules (TJ) to melt the asteroid, and around 250 TJ to vaporise it.

 

Those are absolutly lower figures, which means they are the absolutly minimum of firepower. Some bolts where even continuing their travel after vaporizing a asteroid, so its likely much much more .

[Meethos]

So what type of Turbo Laser is the in-game Ground Based one?

 

So I guess we add Y-Wings and Tie Bombers as air units and disable bombing strikes?

 

Unless we try modeling high orbital space/ground combat. I assume you can set an elevation level at which ships fly. Then set X-Wing and Ties to have no ground attack value.

 

By adding flying units, should we increase the size of the shield produced by the Shield Generator?

[rocketeer]

So what type of Turbo Laser is the in-game Ground Based one?

 

So I guess we add Y-Wings and Tie Bombers as air units and disable bombing strikes?

 

Unless we try modeling high orbital space/ground combat. I assume you can set an elevation level at which ships fly. Then set X-Wing and Ties to have no ground attack value.

 

By adding flying units, should we increase the size of the shield produced by the Shield Generator?

 

The normal buildable ones should be very weak, more a laser cannon than a turbolaser, the turbolaser towers on the other hand are connected to the powergenerator, and thus dont rely on a builtin powersource. They could be quite powerful, but probably not comparable to stardestroyer mounted TBL(not even the weakest ones).

 

Edit: Its also suggested that TBL and normal laser function on different principles actually. For example the plating on AT-ATs repels normal laser fire, but turbolasers cant be repelled that way(otherwise ships would use that plating).

[rocketeer]

Just made a second version of my changes to use if weapon delay modifiers dont cause a decrease in firepower.

[exar-kun]

Just made a second version of my changes to use if weapon delay modifiers dont cause a decrease in firepower.

 

Just put up a few questions in a couple of threads, most importantly petroglyph tech thread, so u should have an answer soon (I hope)

 

exar-kun

[Tal Odo-ki]

I dont think those numbers are canon in the sense the movies are, a single Star destroyers is capable of performing a maneuver called "Base Delta Zero", it basicly turns the complete surface of a planet into a flaming ruin.

Base Delta Zero is a continuous barrage. It is not accomplished by one salvo, much less a single cannon. Also, you might be interested to know that Base Delta Zero is impossible to execute against planets with functional planetary shields.

 

BTW, asteroids are unshielded. If you'd read the rest of the articles on the site you were quoting from you'd see that Star Wars shields are capable of resisting the many Tw of energy you seemed so impressed with. I can provide you with direct links, if you don't have them.

 

An unshielded starfighter (such as a TIE) will be vaporized by any turbolaser. A rebel fighter actually has a chance to survive.

 

Class over, time for you to do your homework.

[Meethos]

Not sure if its doable, at this point, but if we do add Y-Wings & Tie Bombers to land battles, could we replace the bombing run with a fighter run. This would send a squad of X-Wings or Tie Fighters across the map that would destroy any air units they encounter. Not sure if its possible, but an Idea.

 

When I was inquiring about the ground based turbo laser, I was refering to the Turbo Laser Tower. Sorry I wasn't clear.

[rocketeer]

I also tweaked the ships according to lore a bit, for example the Corellian Gunship should do much better in combat than a corvette.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corellian_Corvette

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corellian_Gunship#Corellian_Gunship

 

Edit: They still need their armaments redone.

[Tal Odo-ki]

So what type of Turbo Laser is the in-game Ground Based one?

Who knows? Even a weak turbolaser is enough to blow any tank or airspeeder to smithereens.

 

So I guess we add Y-Wings and Tie Bombers as air units and disable bombing strikes?

Ick! I sure hope not. BAD idea.

 

By adding flying units, should we increase the size of the shield produced by the Shield Generator?

Really BAD idea.

[Adonnay]

Unless we try modeling high orbital space/ground combat. I assume you can set an elevation level at which ships fly. Then set X-Wing and Ties to have no ground attack value.

Wow... are you saying you want another space battle above the land battle?

 

I think you shouldn't let units fly higher than the corvette in my screenshot or I would have to increase the possible zoom of the camera and thus making the ground fade to grey. Besides you would see (which you can do now already) that there are no bounds to the map. You would essentially look at a small stamplike map with another version of the space battles already in place.

 

I think adding a fighter wing, a bomber wing and a corvette to each side should be enough. The fighters should be able to target ground units but with hardly any effect/hit chance.

[rocketeer]

Base Delta Zero is a continuous barrage. It is not accomplished by one salvo, much less a single cannon. Also, you might be interested to know that Base Delta Zero is impossible to execute against planets with functional planetary shields.

 

BTW, asteroids are unshielded. If you'd read the rest of the articles on the site you were quoting from you'd see that Star Wars shields are capable of resisting the many Tw of energy you seemed so impressed with. I can provide you with direct links, if you don't have them.

 

An unshielded starfighter (such as a TIE) will be vaporized by any turbolaser. A rebel fighter actually has a chance to survive.

 

Class over, time for you to do your homework.

 

Of course its a continuous barrage, it has to be a continuous barrage if it comes from a single ship unless we are talking about a discworld . Doesnt change the fact that you can still deduct a average figure from that. And there are vast difference between shields in starwars, a starfighters shields cannot stop a heavy turbolaser, it would pierce the shield and destroy the craft. Even several smaller lasers aimed at the same point of the shield can accomplish that.

[Tal Odo-ki]

I think adding a fighter wing, a bomber wing and a corvette to each side should be enough. The fighters should be able to target ground units but with hardly any effect/hit chance.

Can you do this a seperate sub-mod? I really really dislike the non-canon aspects of your doing this. Or, if you insist on making this change, document in detail what's involved in it so that I (and anyone else who's offended by it) can undo it. Thanks.

[Tal Odo-ki]

And there are vast difference between shields in starwars, a starfighters shields cannot stop a heavy turbolaser, it would pierce the shield and destroy the craft. Even several smaller lasers aimed at the same point of the shield can accomplish that.

If you go back and read my post, you'll see that a HEAVY turbolaser can vaporize a fighter. The standard turbolasers on ISDs are not heavy ones. Respectfully, please go do your homework before you keep arguing about this.

 

The only time in the original Star Wars movies that we see clear examples of a fighter with full shields being blown away is by the heavy turbolasers on the Death Star I and the Executor. Vader was scoring critical hits at Yavin. And in the Endor battle, we never see how many shots the crippled Alliance fighters may have fended off before they finally died.

[exar-kun]

Eh, no ones responding to my questions on weapons delay yet... this might take a while rocketeer...