[MOD] EAW: Open Conflict

[exar-kun]

Is this going to degenerate into an endless squabble over who has superior knowledge and therefore dictate the running of this mod, or are we finally going to put this arguement behind us and start focusing on improving the mod again. This forum isn't about ur superiority over other lesser beings, it is about creating a fun mod of a game to make it more interesting, realistic, and great. So stop talking about inland corvettes and stuff and lets get on with improving the mod!

 

exar-kun

 

Edit: I had a couple of suggestions that seem to have been lost in this debate, dun know if they were ignored for a reason or just overlooked?

[Tal Odo-ki]

Now I'm surprised... didn't know that the AT-ATs cannon was that weak compared to the fighters. So a single TIE-Fighter could have blown that shield generator up as well? Or was that only possible using this wimpy AT-AT and his power-to-weapons ability?

What are the stats on the Snowspeeder then? (sorry if you had them posted already too)

The TIE cannot get past the shield to hit the generator. It would splatter itself into pieces. The AT-ATs walked inside the shield.

 

And I did post the snowspeeder. Plus all other ground units I could find info for. Please go back and look.

[Adonnay]

The TIE cannot get past the shield to hit the generator. It would splatter itself into pieces. The AT-ATs walked inside the shield.

 

And I did post the snowspeeder. Plus all other ground units I could find info for. Please go back and look.

 

Aw come on... you know I meant that theoretically.

Besides... this thread has now 17 pages... how the hell am I to know on which page that was?

 

Guess I'm gonna have to copy those important charts somewhere else...

 

@Exar-kun: The argument is actually long over since I've removed the units again in the just released version. There's no land based fighters/corvettes right now.

[exar-kun]

@Exar-kun: The argument is actually long over since I've removed the units again in the just released version. There's no land based fighters/corvettes right now.

 

Good, I was getting tired of all these arguements

[Adonnay]

Hey,

I think i may have found a probelm. I was just trying to take over yavin in a ground battle (raid with the rebels) and I received a crash-to-desktop. A window pops up saying their was an exception error. I also received a text file with info on the error. Some of the info the rest is stack dump.

I almost forgot about that, sorry.

I can't really tell if this is a problem of my doing or one of the - admittedly rare - crashes the game itself has. The exception printout isn't really helpful for me. To better see if that has to do with any of my changes I would need different information, such as what units were on that planet or what units you brought.

 

Sorry that I cannot help you more than that.

[Meethos]

On this Air unit thing, I agree that we shouldn't have any Capital Ships in Land Combat. As for X-Wings, there is Cannon material that it did happen, maybe not often but it did. As far as them not being able to hit a tank, I have hard time with the logic of that. X-Wings are not required to fly at supersonic speeds all the time, air support during land battles did happen as seen in Episodes II & V. Also in Episode IV the attack against the DeathStar was essentially air/land combat, true there was no atmosphere, but the X-Wings were attacking a stationary target. If they can hit a small exhaust port, surely they can hit a tank. Plus it showed Red Squadron doing straffing runs against the DeathStar. And from a miltary standpoint if you don't have any good atmospheric fighters, you use what resources you have, which would be X-Wings and Ties, perhaps not the best choice or their primary role, but they have the ability to do so.

 

Edit:

The argument is actually long over since I've removed the units again in the just released version. There's no land based fighters/corvettes right now

Sorry was posting this when you said that, kindly disregard this post.

[Tal Odo-ki]

Aw come on... you know I meant that theoretically.

Besides... this thread has now 17 pages... how the hell am I to know on which page that was?

Page 9. This forum's search function works pretty well.

[Tal Odo-ki]

On this Air unit thing, I agree that we shouldn't have any Capital Ships in Land Combat. As for X-Wings, there is Cannon material that it did happen, maybe not often but i did. As far as them not being able to hit a tank, I have hard time with the logic of that. X-Wings are not required to fly at supersonic speeds all the time, air support during land battles did happen as seen in Episodes II & V. Also in Episode IV the attack against the DeathStar was essentially air/land combat, true there was no atmosphere, but the X-Wings were attacking a stationary target. If they can hit a small exhaust port, surely they can hit a tank. Plus it showed Red Squadron doing straffing runs against the DeathStars. And from a miltary standpoint if you don't have any good atmospheric fighters, you use what resources you have, which would be X-Wings and Ties, perhaps not the best choice or their primary role, but they have the ability to do so.

Even if I were to concede to you everything you just said (which I could debate but choose not to as this is not the proper place for it), you are still ignoring the disbalancing aspects of the fighter's shields and hull strength versus land units (which renders them all but immune to attack) and the fighter's laser attack being twice as strong as an AT-AT's. The scale mismatch of even as small a spaceship as a starfighter means they simply do not belong in the ground portion of the game.

[exar-kun]

I beg to differ with u on that one meethos. Sure, X-wings could hit targets with pretty darn good accuracy in space, like your example of the Death STar, but in atmosphere there are a whole bunch of new issues to deal with. Gravity, wind, rain, and a whole bunch of other natural things need to be factred in. A lot of these things could throw the laser out of alignment with it's focusing gem, causing very bad accuracy. Fighting against gravity also needs to be taken into account, as the polit constantly needs to check that he is not dropping toward the ground like a stone (abliet a piloted stone). The engines could get something stuck in them (like a stray bird). So yes, u would have to use them since u have no other fighter to fill the role, but it would be rather a waste because of planetary effects on fighters.

 

Edit: Now I promise to never, ever revisit this issue again if so help me god

 

Edit 2: No more disturbances plz, need to concentrte on trig hw now >.<

[Adonnay]

Even if I were to concede to you everything you just said (which I could debate but choose not to as this is not the proper place for it), you are still ignoring the disbalancing aspects of the fighter's shields and hull strength versus land units (which renders them all but immune to attack) and the fighter's laser attack being twice as strong as an AT-AT's. The scale mismatch of even as small a spaceship as a starfighter means they simply do not belong in the ground portion of the game.

To be honest, the more I see of those RPG numbers the less I believe they are right compared to what we see in the movies. What just made me blieve so was the damage of the speeder bike compared to the damage of the snowspeeder (4d8 vs. 5d8). I mean... you see this tiny little rifle like blaster underneath the speeder bike which can hardly touch another speeder bike obviously (EP6). And then you see those snowspeeders. Admittedly small craft, but they look like a cockpit built between to relatively large cannons. And now the RPG makers want to make us belive that those are only a little bit stronger than those of the bike? One cannon of the Snowspeeder would even be inferior.

 

I could go on with the armor values of the fighters (10) compared to the one of the obviously huge and heavily armored (otherwise it wouldn't be that slow and bulky) transport (15). Only 1/3 more amor? Hardly believable...

[Tal Odo-ki]

Two more points regarding starfighters firing in atmosphere:

• Diffusion of the beam due to air ionization
  
• Fighter guns (be it Star Wars starfighters or real-world fighter aircraft) are calibrated to strike an aiming point a set distance away from the fighter. Since the normal environment for a starfighter is space, and the distances huge (by ground standards), trying to hit anything that's too close will result in wild inaccuracy since the guns would be "overshooting" the targets and (in the case of an X-wing) managing to get one gun on-target only means that the other three won't hit.

In the case of a starfighter pilot, being able to "hit the broadside of a barn" is actually damn good shooting.

[Adonnay]

In one point Exar-kun is right. This is getting out of hand

 

In all those points you mentionned none could really convince me and seemed a little made up to fit the rulebook. Anyway... I'm sure neither did any of my or Meethos' arguments convince you so we should better stop this here and concentrate on more important matters. Hopefully rocketeer can implement his changes soon so we can all test the new balance he had in mind

[exar-kun]

^I totally agree with Adonnay on that one

 

Edit: Wait... does this mean im wrong in all other points? aw...

 

Exar-kun

[Meethos]

About that buildable Commuinication Array, what about letting the defender be able to build select units to bring in as re-enforcements?

 

Just a thought.

[Adonnay]

Sure why not... though there should be a decent penalty on doing so or we will land in balance-hell once again

Say a very long build time and high prices reflecting the time and effort it needs for the transports to arrive (and break/sneak around the blockade).

[exar-kun]

good god... they STILL haven't answered my question regarding weapon delay! What kind of cust. service is this? It's like the cust. service the Rebs. would get if it had called and asked for the DS plans!

[Tal Odo-ki]

To be honest, the more I see of those RPG numbers the less I believe they are right compared to what we see in the movies.

 

{snip}

 

I could go on with the armor values of the fighters (10) compared to the one of the obviously huge and heavily armored (otherwise it wouldn't be that slow and bulky) transport (15). Only 1/3 more amor? Hardly believable...

Actually, commercial vessels are unarmored. The DR is from the sheer internal strength of their hulls, not from exterior armor. Only warships (gunships and frigates or larger) are armored. Even the Corellian Corvette is considered to be almost unarmored (very light armor plating).

 

As for the airspeeder being not much more powerful than a speeder bike, what can I say? Just because a cannon looks big doesn't mean it hits commensurately harder. OTOH, what I didn't bother to list is that the range increments on the airspeeder's guns are almost 8 times greater than for a speeder bike. The airspeeder does have a lot more power, it's just focused for range, not damage.

[Tal Odo-ki]

good god... they STILL haven't answered my question regarding weapon delay! What kind of cust. service is this? It's like the cust. service the Rebs. would get if it had called and asked for the DS plans!

You're assuming they work on Sunday. Bad assumption.

[exar-kun]

Lol my bad. Completely forgot that it was Sunday. Oh well, gues rocketeer will have to wait until Monday for a clear cu answer from petro.

[exar-kun]

Lol my bad. Completely forgot that it was Sunday. Oh well, guess rocketeer will have to wait until Monday for a clear cut answer from petro.

[exar-kun]

Again with the double post?

[rocketeer]

@Adonnay: Changes send back

 

@all: If there are any ships behaving strangely, like the special ability not having a affect or something pls report them, typos happen more often than i like .

 

To prevent some confusion:

Yes Home one is tougher

Corvettes and tartans are less sturdy, especially bombers and heavy missiles are bad for these ships. Of course bombers still die like flys to them, but that doesnt mean torpedos are healthy for these ships.

 

Edit:

ISDs have power to weapons ability(unless i messed up)

[Meethos]

Sure why not... though there should be a decent penalty on doing so or we will land in balance-hell once again

Say a very long build time and high prices reflecting the time and effort it needs for the transports to arrive (and break/sneak around the blockade).

Actually I was just going to ask if you could put some kind of price & build multiplier on it. So yeah that sounds like an excellent idea.

 

Another thing. When I was playing as the Empire in Galactic Conflict, the rebels did a raid against one of my planets that had a huge force in orbit. Since my fleet was in orbit I was expecting to be able to use my bombing run and call down some re-enforcments, but as the defender those options are disabled. Is there a way to re-enable those?? It doesn't seem quite right to have troops so close, but not being able to use them. I suppose this could upset the rebels raid ability. Could always increase it again.

[Adonnay]

@Adonnay: Changes send back

 

@all: If there are any ships behaving strangely, like the special ability not having a affect or something pls report them, typos happen more often than i like .

 

To prevent some confusion:

Yes Home one is tougher

Corvettes and tartans are less sturdy, especially bombers and heavy missiles are bad for these ships. Of course bombers still die like flys to them, but that doesnt mean torpedos are healthy for these ships.

Seems you forgot the attachment

[Adonnay]

Actually I was just going to ask if you could put some kind of price & build multiplier on it. So yeah that sounds like an excellent idea.

 

Another thing. When I was playing as the Empire in Galactic Conflict, the rebels did a raid against one of my planets that had a huge force in orbit. Since my fleet was in orbit I was expecting to be able to use my bombing run and call down some re-enforcments, but as the defender those options are disabled. Is there a way to re-enable those?? It doesn't seem quite right to have troops so close, but not being able to use them. I suppose this could upset the rebels raid ability. Could always increase it again.

While I haven't looked at this yet this sounds like it's pretty much hardcoded...