[MOD] EAW: Open Conflict

[rocketeer]

Another problem in galactic campaign... victory destroyers are now tech level 4.. tech same as ISDs.. leaving the empire with only broadsides at level 2 and 3, whitch I take out from the game anyway (space artillery = stupid idea). I changed victorys back to level 2 in my xml but u should know anout it.

 

edit: actually, it seems that many capital ships tech levels have been changed. Is this intended, cause it seems odd to have only the acclamator as a viable warship until level 4, considering that in skirmish the tech levels have not been changed.

 

And another thing, the second mining sattelites, the ones that cost 3500 are way overpowered in my opinion, they can take out tartans and tie squadrons in a matter of seconds.

 

I just played a long galactic conflict game and also noticed some strangenesses that i feel may also be used to address you points .

 

First like you said the tech lvls might be better organized. ISDs and mon cals belong in the last techlvl, especially heroes like grand moff tarkin ... I encountered him while i still was at tech lvl 2, lets just say it wasnt pleasent . On the other hand heroes like red squadron might aswell be in tech lvl 4 or even 3 imho.

 

Victorys on lvl 4 are intended, they are second in power only to the mightiest capital ships, which in turn should be tech lvl 5. Actually Victorys should be available at the same time as Venators, as they will best them in direct combat. The acclamator is the (stronger) counterpart of the assault mk II, so it should fit more or less.

 

The artillery as it is should be reworked, it got quite the nerf and never recoverd from it . It should be taken out until we can(want?) rework it to give it a purpose cause its messing up the AI i think. At current prices its just not worth it and with the range nerf it doesnt serve a purpose i can see anymore. I think many people didnt like them at all, and up to now no fan of them has come complaining that they got nerfed.

 

The mining satillietes are very powerful, but cost 3500 cr and only produce half the income. Compared to that a few tie squadrons and tartans are hardly noticeable. On most maps with less than 4 mines per player i prefer the normal mines cause the defended ones are simple hurting my income to hard.

 

P.S. I noticed on a land defense that my(rebel) light factory wasnt producing any garrison units during the fight, that was quite a surprise .

[rocketeer]

@rocketeer: Concerning your balance changes... somehow I got the feeling that the empire lost quite a bit of power in the lower levels. In skirmish I can hardly get my feet on the ground... Nebulons take too long to die to Acclamators which slowly get picked apart by the Corvettes and Gunboats while they try to kill one Nebulon. While this sounds like a good tactic it gets annoying since the Tartans cannot counter the Corvettes.

In skirmish we could solve this problem by adding the IPV to the imperials as a little stronger corvette (at least weapons wise) which can also take on the Corellians. But in GC?

 

edit: I just tested the IPV in skirmish... either it is a heap of junk or we did something wrong *g*

 

Ok i know im quoting this the second time but i just played a long galactic conflict game too, and want to add some to this.

 

First i noticed my nebulons where absolutly helpless against acclamators, and rebels dont get a stronger unit until tech lvl 3, i was passive the whole time until i got venators, try attacking lvl 2 stations with nebulons and we see how bad you have it with your acclamators

 

But still i think acclamators need a boost, i just dont think they need a hp boost(that would just change the time it takes for them to get swarmed). They already have strong shields and a strong recharge, what you described i would call getting swarmed by smaller units, which is annoying because the tartans are just not up to the task of dealing with the corvettes/gunboats and the acclamators are usually busy engaging the other frigates(limited control, you cant tell your launchers to attack the corvettes while your TBLs keep fire on the enemy frigate).

 

Now we could either make the tartan stronger, which i actually dont like very much, cause it might cause the rebels the same problem the imperials have now, or we could actually make that acclamator more powerful. So here is my idea:

 

The acclamator has 3 weapon systems if i remember it right, heavy missiles, turbolasers and normal missiles. How about we take one of these missile systems, half its rof, and restrict its targettype to frigates/capitals/structures. Then we add a copy of that on the same hardpoint but restrict it transports/corvettes. Then we increase the damage of the turbolasers to counter the decreased missiledamage output vs frigates and bigger of the missile system. Of course we would tweak the missile system we changed to ensure it hits its intended targets and give its 'anti corvette' missile system a 360° fire radius. In the end the acclamator should still do the same damage to frigates and up, but we would have forced it to fire at corvettes at the same time.

 

I think it fits canon that missile using ships should be very dangerous to corvette sized ships, and considering the empire really doesnt get a different warship until the victory, the acclamator should be able to effectively engage any ship below the assault mk II. And even the assault mk II should probably be quite a bit less effective in a direct confrontation.

 

And dont forget that with all the weapons the acclamator has, it doesnt has ion cannons, so it shouldnt be too good at destroying shields, wait till you use a victory the first time against a nebulon or mk II.

 

P.S. I didnt change any damage values, only increased health, and the imperials got their fair share . I would rather increase damage by more sophisticated means(like adding weapon hardpoints that can only shoot at specific shiptypes ontop of the normal ones) then mess around with hp anymore. The nebulon has the hitpoints i gave it so it doesnt get killed by a few tartans/pirate vessels, thats the only ships you really can use your nebulon against so it should have the hp(time) to deal with them imho.

 

P.P.S. I would like to hear your opinion about nebulon vs acclamator 1on1, how long should it take for a acclamator to kill a nebulon?

 

Edit: Yep the IPV is totally ... useless. Its not good against fighters/bombers and gets mutilated by anything bigger pretty fast.

[Tal Odo-ki]

P.P.S. I would like to hear your opinion about nebulon vs acclamator 1on1, how long should it take for a acclamator to kill a nebulon?

 

Edit: Yep the IPV is totally ... useless. Its not good against fighters/bombers and gets mutilated by anything bigger pretty fast.

Seeing as the Acclamator has 50% more laser firepower (according to canon) than a Nebulon, ALL of which can fire into the forward fire arc (the Nebulon only can fire 1/3 of its turbolasers into the forward arc), plus the Acclamator has 4 of the really big missile launchers (each of which has double the hitting power of a Nebulon turbolaser), it should be able to kill a Nebulon fairly quickly. A single salvo of all Acclamator forward-firing weapons is equal to 4.5 times what the Nebulon can dish out in return.

 

BTW, the Acclamator does not have two types of missiles.

 

The IPV is not designed to be effective against fighters. It's an anti-pirate vessel that designed to be able to go 1 on 1 with a Corellian Corvette (or something like the Millennium Falcon/Slave I) and win.

[[AS] Dodger]

Edited post - my mistake. Works well

[Adonnay]

Another problem in galactic campaign... victory destroyers are now tech level 4.. tech same as ISDs.. leaving the empire with only broadsides at level 2 and 3, whitch I take out from the game anyway (space artillery = stupid idea). I changed victorys back to level 2 in my xml but u should know anout it.

 

edit: actually, it seems that many capital ships tech levels have been changed. Is this intended, cause it seems odd to have only the acclamator as a viable warship until level 4, considering that in skirmish the tech levels have not been changed.

 

And another thing, the second mining sattelites, the ones that cost 3500 are way overpowered in my opinion, they can take out tartans and tie squadrons in a matter of seconds.

1. Well moving the VSD to tech 3 might work, but only since the rebels got the Venator. Setting it at tech level 2 is kinda ridiculous since the rebels have only Corellians and a Nebulon B at that time

 

2. In 'my' version the ISD is at tech level 5 already, not sure what you are testing, unless I've messed something up.

 

3. I don't think the fortified mine is overpowerd. I woldn't taking down a Tartan isn't really consider powerful. And keep in mind it only produces half (!) the income of the regular asteroid. The only imbalance those things might create is due to the AI not building them. Every half capable ship should be able to kill those asteroids. Just not as fast.

[Tal Odo-ki]

1. Well moving the VSD to tech 3 might work, but only since the rebels got the Venator. Setting it at tech level 2 is kinda ridiculous since the rebels have only Corellians and a Nebulon B at that time

What tech level is the Acclamator? If the Nebulon is TL2, then the Acclamator should be 3 (should be higher tech than the Nebulon) and the VSD should be 4. There's not much difference in tech between a VSD and an ISD according to canon. The ISD is just (much) bigger.

 

The reason I say that the Acclamator should be higher in tech is for balance reasons. The Nebulon is a newer-technology design than even the ISDs, but its power is quite low, even lower than its so-called EAW "equivalent", the (antique) Acclamator. The VSD should be be one level below the ISD in tech, again for balance.

[Adonnay]

First like you said the tech lvls might be better organized. ISDs and mon cals belong in the last techlvl, especially heroes like grand moff tarkin ... I encountered him while i still was at tech lvl 2, lets just say it wasnt pleasent . On the other hand heroes like red squadron might aswell be in tech lvl 4 or even 3 imho.

 

Victorys on lvl 4 are intended, they are second in power only to the mightiest capital ships, which in turn should be tech lvl 5. Actually Victorys should be available at the same time as Venators, as they will best them in direct combat. The acclamator is the (stronger) counterpart of the assault mk II, so it should fit more or less.

 

The artillery as it is should be reworked, it got quite the nerf and never recoverd from it . It should be taken out until we can(want?) rework it to give it a purpose cause its messing up the AI i think. At current prices its just not worth it and with the range nerf it doesnt serve a purpose i can see anymore. I think many people didnt like them at all, and up to now no fan of them has come complaining that they got nerfed.

 

The mining satillietes are very powerful, but cost 3500 cr and only produce half the income. Compared to that a few tie squadrons and tartans are hardly noticeable. On most maps with less than 4 mines per player i prefer the normal mines cause the defended ones are simple hurting my income to hard.

 

P.S. I noticed on a land defense that my(rebel) light factory wasnt producing any garrison units during the fight, that was quite a surprise .

I can only tell you the same as shadoe (well almost ). I just started an empire game (Galactic Conflict) at level 4 and I neither had Tarkin nor could I build ISDs. So not sure what kind of version you are playing... or perhaps changing tech levels and loading a savegame afterwards doesn't work. Perhaps someone could test this so I can add a warning to any version which changes tech levels in the future that this will not affect your savegames.

 

Next point... I didn't nerf the Atrillery in any way but tweaking its damage towards AT-AT armor down somewhat, not sure what you mean with range etc.

 

First i noticed my nebulons where absolutly helpless against acclamators, and rebels dont get a stronger unit until tech lvl 3, i was passive the whole time until i got venators, try attacking lvl 2 stations with nebulons and we see how bad you have it with your acclamators[/Quote]

Attacking a level 2 station with Nebulons should be suicide. Nebulons are no battleships... they are escort frigates and quite cheap too. Only comparing the price you can buy 3 Nebulons for one Acclamator. Those three should be able to take one down. Well pal... it was YOU who changed the Acclamator's shields from 2800 to 3500

[Adonnay]

What tech level is the Acclamator? If the Nebulon is TL2, then the Acclamator should be 3 (should be higher tech than the Nebulon) and the VSD should be 4. There's not much difference in tech between a VSD and an ISD according to canon. The ISD is just (much) bigger.

 

The reason I say that the Acclamator should be higher in tech is for balance reasons. The Nebulon is a newer-technology design than even the ISDs, but its power is quite low, even lower than its so-called EAW "equivalent", the (antique) Acclamator. The VSD should be be one level below the ISD in tech, again for balance.

If we move the Acclamator to tech 3, then the Empire has nothing but Tartans up to level 3...

 

Edit: Oh an the missiles of the Acclamator ARE dangerous for Corvettes. They just not get hit too often and I think that works well. Who would buy Corvettes anymore if they get killed too fast, they should have at least a chance to escape.

[Adonnay]

What I agree on though is that the Venator has to be moved to tech 4.

[Koci]

Hmmm, I'm really sad, but it looks, that AI is "better" in stock game, probably

(someone before told) because they are programmed for game when we started with few (scattered) planets :-(

 

I'm ALWAYS win (Normal difficulty) without using of brain :-) - boredom.......

You talk about balance and weaponry, it doesn't matter before AI is not

smarter in general, I can win all this war with frigates only, because they have only space stations and Tie Fighters, and....... too many planets are "empty" at start, Empire build nothing on this planets after conquer.......

 

 

Any ideas to make smarter AI (without LUA files changed) with these

GREAT mod ? Mayby start from scratch (one planet) is not so good, but I

really like this idea.......

 

Best Regards

 

Koci

[rocketeer]

I obviously meant space artillary . Both marauder and broadsides have pretty much bad range. Broadside for example has 2500 it seems, and costs a leg and a arm, in one battle against the AI i killed 15 of them, now if the AI had taken acclamators i would have been in trouble. Yep seems tarkin and the ISDs are lvl 5, doesnt explain how the AI got to that lvl while i still crept around at lvl 2 ...

 

Ackbar on the other hand is lvl 4, and red squadron lvl 5. Shouls be kinda reverse shouldnt it? Xwings and Ywings show up twice on my built list. And i know that attacking space stations with nebulons is suicide, actually its even suicide to attack pirate bases with them ... I just wanted to point out that the rebels are completly at the defense until they get assault mk IIs. And even those mk IIs are not as good as acclamators. So making the nebulon any weaker would be kinda bad, i dont built them atm cause i think they are not worth 2000cr imagine they would be even weaker ...

 

@Tal: I agree on anything you said about Acclamator vs Nebulons, but its still a very vague statement, so should it take as long as killing a corvette, 2 corvettes? I think a Acclamator could kill 3 nebulons, but he might get damaged doing so.

 

Edit: I know i gave the Acclamators a hp boost, and i think that was the absolutly minimum they needed. What i meant with the laucher is that if you give a Acclamator a attack order the launcher will shot at your primary target, i would prefer if the launcher would fire every second shot at corvettes, even when giving a attack order against something else.

[shadoe]

A few thoughts:

 

1. Sorry about my previous post, i didnt't check all ur balance changes and tech changes. I just took a campaign save where at level 2 i had lots of victorys and with ur mod installed i suddenly couldn't build any more. I also didn't know that the armed mining sattelites produce half the income.

 

2. About the Acclamator/Venator/Victory. Canon, they are all ships from the clone wars and are contemporary. The Acclamator was a Troop carrier, the Venator was a dedicated fighter carrier while the Victory was the battleship. The Victory is smaller than the ISD (900 meters compared to 1 mile), but two Victorys cannot stand head to head with 1 ISD (In fact, in the EU novel Darksaber, an ISD obliterates a Victory with just 1 salvo of all its guns). In the EU and all the games we see many Victorys and no Venators because the Victorys fit better in the Imperial doctrine of favorising Battleships instead of Carriers (An ISD just has 72 TIEs but with its size it coud fit thousands if it was a carrier)

 

3. I think Star Wars is all about one man fighters which I feel are far to weak in this (great) mod. There are ships and stations capable of obliterating whole fighter squadrons in a matter of seconds. Tie Bombers and Y-wings are virtually useless, proton torpedoes do far too little damage. fighters generally are no more than pesky flies for the big capital ships.

 

4. Tie Avengers. They are very cool and my favourite Star Wars fighter (the MK2s actually, not Vader's prototype) but never in the EU are Stardestroyers carrying squadrons of them. Not even 20 years after the Battle of Endor. They costed far too much plus they had a problem - having a hyperdrive means the pilots could defect. The few squadrons equipped with Avengers and Defenders where elite ultraloyal pilots. AND the Avengers that where build where Tie Advanceds MK2, Vaders prototype was just that - a prototype, so the in-game model is wrong anyway.

 

All this is Canon. Of course, EAW was never meant to be Canon

[Adonnay]

I obviously meant space artillary . Both marauder and broadsides have pretty much bad range. Broadside for example has 2500 it seems, and costs a leg and a arm, in one battle against the AI i killed 15 of them, now if the AI had taken acclamators i would have been in trouble. Yep seems tarkin and the ISDs are lvl 5, doesnt explain how the AI got to that lvl while i still crept around at lvl 2 ...

 

Ackbar on the other hand is lvl 4, and red squadron lvl 5. Shouls be kinda reverse shouldnt it? Xwings and Ywings show up twice on my built list.

The fighters popping up twice on the build list has already been fixed... please get the latest files

 

I agree though on the SPACE artillery... they're kinda weak now. I think I'll have to increase their range again and probably their rate of fire.

 

As for Red Squadron... I wouldn't place it on any other tech level because even if it is "only" a squad of X-Wings, the lucky shot is probably the most powerful ability in game. You can knock out the shields of an ISD with one shot, then the hardpoints are not that much of a problem anymore if you brought a cruiser with you. Home One on the other hand...

[rocketeer]

Do with the artillery what ever you want, i will be removing them anyway from my local version . I just hate them, i mean comeon starwars with artillery? Fighting at extreme range kinda defeats the purpose of these big shiny capital ship battles. And while red squadron is kinda nice, it doesnt give you that 'oh ****' feeling you get when you see the battle notice coming up with ackbar on top of the enemy forces list . Red squadron never stomped a lvl 4 station of me that was defended by several acclamators and a victory into the ground .

[Tal Odo-ki]

In fact, in the EU novel Darksaber, an ISD obliterates a Victory with just 1 salvo of all its guns

IIRC, that was an ISD II, not an ISD I, that did it. The ISD II has a great deal more firepower than the original model. The ISD II is the model of ISD seen in ep5 and 6, while the ISD I is only seen in ep4.

[Adonnay]

3. I think Star Wars is all about one man fighters which I feel are far to weak in this (great) mod. There are ships and stations capable of obliterating whole fighter squadrons in a matter of seconds. Tie Bombers and Y-wings are virtually useless, proton torpedoes do far too little damage. fighters generally are no more than pesky flies for the big capital ships.

Realistically one or two wings of fighters simply don't have a chance against such capital ships as the VSD or ISD. I'm not sure about the torpedoes, but actually the ingame torpedoes already inflict more damage than the canon ones.

 

4. Tie Avengers. They are very cool and my favourite Star Wars fighter (the MK2s actually, not Vader's prototype) but never in the EU are Stardestroyers carrying squadrons of them. Not even 20 years after the Battle of Endor. They costed far too much plus they had a problem - having a hyperdrive means the pilots could defect. The few squadrons equipped with Avengers and Defenders where elite ultraloyal pilots. AND the Avengers that where build where Tie Advanceds MK2, Vaders prototype was just that - a prototype, so the in-game model is wrong anyway.

Come on... the prototype looks almost the same (except the notched solar panels) and considering the model is that small you can hardly see the difference. That is really nitpicking

About the timeline you're probably right... I'm not very confident with the star wars timeline anyway. On the other hand I think the empire badly needs that kind of fighter in addition to their throw-away TIEs.

[Tal Odo-ki]

For the sake of clarifying things for Adonnay, the TIE Advanced x1 was Vader's prototype. TIE Advanced x2 prototypes were built just after Yavin, and unlike the x1, a few squadrons (of the tens of thousands of TIE squadrons in the galaxy) were equipped with them. The TIE Avenger is NOT the same fighter as the TIE Advanced x2. The TIE Advanced x2 looks identical to the x1, but has an advanced maneuvering system similar to the one later used on the TIE Interceptor making it much more nimble in dogfights. The TIE Interceptor and TIE Avenger are parallel developments. Both fighters (which look very similar -- thx, Adonnay, for pointing out the difference) trace their ancestry back to the x2, but the one that was finally adopted was the (cheaper) TIE Interceptor.

 

In case you need further (visual) cues, the TIE Interceptor/Avenger is the model with the notched folded solar panels. The TIE Advanced prototypes are the ones with the un-notched folded panels (similar to those on the TIE bomber). The TIE Interceptor is only seen in RotJ (along with standard TIEs and TIE bombers).

[Koci]

Hmmm, I'm really sad, but it looks, that AI is "better" in stock game, probably

(someone before told) because they are programmed for game when we started with few (scattered) planets :-(

 

I'm ALWAYS win (Normal difficulty) without using of brain :-) - boredom.......

You talk about balance and weaponry, it doesn't matter before AI is not

smarter in general, I can win all this war with frigates only, because they have only space stations and Tie Fighters, and....... too many planets are "empty" at start, Empire build nothing on this planets after conquer.......

 

 

Any ideas to make smarter AI (without LUA files changed) with these

GREAT mod ? Mayby start from scratch (one planet) is not so good, but I

really like this idea.......

 

Best Regards

 

Koci

 

Sorry about this (Quote of my own post :-) but I must to ask, I've heard that newest patch will be focused on multiplayer issues only, not AI related. I really like Your mod Adonnay, just game is ruined because of "not fighting" AI.......

 

Sorry again and Best Regards

 

Koci

[Adonnay]

The Interceptor and the Avenger do not look identical (sadly the star wars com photos are not very clear on this)

But this one is better (though the cockpit has been changed): http://starwars.mytopix.com/tie_avenger/

[Adonnay]

Sorry about this (Quote of my own post :-) but I must to ask, I've heard that newest patch will be focused on multiplayer issues only, not AI related. I really like Your mod Adonnay, just game is ruined because of "not fighting" AI.......

 

Sorry again and Best Regards

 

Koci

Well I cannot really agree on this... the campaign I just started (to test the tech levels for Tarkin and the ISD) ended quite quickly because the rebels overran me. I was quite surprised myself. I didn't build very much nor did I conquer many planets (just Kuat to test the ISDs)... but I had no chance against the AI. You should try playing on hard. I'm not sure about the Empire though, perhaps they're flawed.

[Tal Odo-ki]

The Interceptor and the Avenger do not look identical (sadly the star wars com photos are not very clear on this)

But this one is better (though the cockpit has been changed): http://starwars.mytopix.com/tie_avenger/

Thanks for the link. I'm also pleased and flattered that you read my post sufficiently closely to be interested enough in what I wrote to warrant double-checking its accuracy. hehe

[Koci]

Well I cannot really agree on this... the campaign I just started (to test the tech levels for Tarkin and the ISD) ended quite quickly because the rebels overran me. I was quite surprised myself. I didn't build very much nor did I conquer many planets (just Kuat to test the ISDs)... but I had no chance against the AI. You should try playing on hard. I'm not sure about the Empire though, perhaps they're flawed.

 

Well, I hope You are right, I will try again, one question :

 

What exactly differences between Normal and Hard difficulty You see ?

And...........latest (with gold status) version of You mod is under Your sig ?

 

Best Regards

 

Koci

[Adonnay]

It just satisfies me to actually know something that you don't... which, in case of Star Wars, happens rarely enough

[Adonnay]

Well, I hope You are right, I will try again, one question :

 

What exactly differences between Normal and Hard difficulty You see ?

And...........latest (with gold status) version of You mod is under Your sig ?

 

Best Regards

 

Koci

 

Yup... the link in my sig always points to the latest version. For the correct version check the name (version) of the readme contained within.

[Tal Odo-ki]

It just satisfies me to actually know something that you don't... which, in case of Star Wars, happens rarely enough

Touche! ROFL.

 

PS - keep up the great work.