FrencH PLayer - Damn french translation-

[ben3434]

Hi Im a French MI player.

I've been playing that game for many years (since MI 1)

 

But something really bother me... the translation !!!

When I read what you say in this forum, i realise that they are many things taht are funnier in English than in french !!

French Guybrush Voice sux a lot !! it sounds like a 16 years old teenager !!

I'm sure that original combat hint are cool in english so Id like you to post the best..

 

I also realised why GuyBrush said "une vierge de fer" That means Iron Maiden !!

HOW CAN FRENCH PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE PUN

 

Even characters names have been changed :

I understand that Mr Frometon is funnier than Mr Cheese in french but i think it sucks

 

In brief, Id like you guys to post the best MI moment (pun, jokes,...and not only EMI)in their original version.

 

Thx and merry Xmas

[Muad]

Greetings,

 

I'm a french player too. Of course translation sucks, but they're really making efforts to give us an acceptable one.

Perosnaly i play each game in french, and then in english.

 

aaaaaaaah what would i do for MO ?

 

Muad

 

[futharkred]

 

Bien chers amis,

 

 

The question you are raising is a fascinating one. Translating humor, especially of this kind, is probably more difficult than translating poetry from one language to another--which many consider virtually impossible.

 

 

A lot of the humor is of course language-specific (puns, double-entendres, plays on sounds, and so on), which can often sound idiotic if literally translated. Indeed, to be able to "get the joke" in another language is among the most advanced signs of really understanding it, of fluency. (I really wonder how that's handled in translating someone like Shakespeare, who features all of the above variations in playing with words in all of his plays, as well as creating a great deal of the language in the first place. And how do you recreate the sense, for example, that you're hearing the characters speak the most familiar quotations and sayings and figures of speech in the language--which is true in Shakespeare--if you're doing it in a different language?)

 

 

Just as important is all the cultural makeup in our sense of humor, and the ways of expressing it. The Monkey Island stories deal in part with some peculiarly American items or ways of thinking, which might not be part of another country's common language, or be something they would think funny to the same degree. Even something as basic (here) as our notions of piracy and pirate humor may differ from one place to another--what might my cousins from Norway think, for example? (Is there Viking humor? What is the Norwegian for "swashbuckling"? Is their sense of the Caribbean anything like that of a person from New York? Etc., etc.)

 

 

It would be interesting to learn in some detail how a company such as LucasArts handles such translations. Not so well, it sounds like, from reading your notes.

 

 

Maybe you could yourselves do a (partial? sample?) translation that would create the same sense (for a French speaker) as this does in English. In particular, could you come up with a sample of French insults and responses (an insult duel) that would really work well, as well as examples of those currently in your (French-language) game that perhaps don't work at all? I for one would love to see it.

 

 

Yet even here there's a peculiar difference between the two languages, that isn't obvious at all: rhyming is much more difficult in English, and in itself can have a real element of humor, and an extra force, that may not be as strong in French.

 

 

In any event, if you're able to play both versions, and be aware of the shortcomings of the one, bless you--that is a real ability.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Paul Nelson

[Masatomo]

Well, what can I say. I'm an italian living in the UK, so I played the first 2 MI games in italian and the 3rd and 4th in english. I must say I prefer the English version... but the Italian one doesn't suck at all! You have to understand that there are different humors (I mean... is Frasier fun? I don't think so for each country and first of all they have to adopt it... and also they have to translate it in a totally different language! I don't have the english versions of MI 1 and 2 and the italian versions of MI 3 and 4, so I can't compare, but if you have seen Dumb & Dumber, I can give you an example:

 

ENGLISH:

- Where are you going?

- Aspen

- Oh, Aspen, in Florida (or something like that).

 

ITALIAN:

- Dove state andando? (where are you going?)

- Aspen

- Oh, Aspen, sugli Aspennini (oh, Aspen, on the Aspennini range)...

 

There's a mountain range called Appennini in Italy (you can see the word game?), and I think the way they translated it was absolutely amazing. And pretty difficult, too.

 

So... I don't believe they suck so much... apart from the usual things (like the Iron Maiden thing you mentioned, maybe who translated it was french and didn't know there's a band called Iron Maiden

I've noticed these kind of mistakes in various English to Italian translations, but hey, we can turn a blind eye on those

 

 

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This is my friend Picol. He always says only what he thinks, this is way he never speaks.

 

-[masatomo ueda 2000]-

[Dwalin]

Ah, you silly French and Italian people! Why don't people in your countries just learn to speak English, like we Norwegians do?

 

And translating TV and Films is just stupid, use subtitles! Can't you read and watch at the same time? I have seen the French Jim Carrey, and he is NOT funny. By translating actors, you literally remove 70% of their work.

 

But it is not your fault of course. It is just something I have felt like venting for a long time.

 

I'd love to try out the Italian version of EMI. 'Signor Threepwood' 'Si?'

[Dwalin]

Oh..By the way, Futharked, for a man bearing that nickname you should know that we do not translate Computer Games in Norway, nor films or TV-series. We are very influenced by the British and Americans, and you probably won't find a Norwegian that can't at least a bit English.

[Agent007]

Wow, that's really interesting...

I never thought about that.

The best thing would probably to develop the different language versions of the game seperately. They'd all have the same basic plot, but not the same dialog, etc.

That way, you don't have to worry about the linguistics of each insult, etc. Each version would have totally different insults, jokes and such that are specific to that language and culture.

 

That's probably too expensive to ever be feasible, but it would eliminate some of the problems a_s_sociated (stupid filter) with translation.

However, it might not be so great with the global communication of the internet. I mean, how would players of the Italian, French, or English games be able to help or relate to each other?

 

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[This message has been edited by Agent007 (edited December 07, 2000).]

 

[This message has been edited by Agent007 (edited December 07, 2000).]

[Guybrush UK]

Originally posted by Dwalin:

Ah, you silly French and Italian people! Why don't people in your countries just learn to speak English, like we Norwegians do?

 

thats not a nice thing to say

 

i (being english) have tried to learn both French & German... & failed badly...

 

unless you grow up learning it, its hard... you cant just jump into a new language!

 

maybe the french & italiens here weren't brought up on English from 4 years old!

 

 

 

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LUA Bar... Whats a LUA?

[The Mirrorball Man]

Originally posted by Dwalin:

Ah, you silly French and Italian people! Why don't people in your countries just learn to speak English, like we Norwegians do?

 

Because Italians and French have a culture of their own and they don't need to borrow one from another country? Maybe?

[Guest The Feral Chicken]

Well, I'm ashamed that I speak only English and not at least 1 more language fluently; especially when I see people from other countries speaking perfect English, such as America and Australia (JOKE!)

 

When I was on holiday in Italy this year, I was playing football with a 14-year-old German kid named Steffan/Steven. He spoke perfect and fluent English and I only wish I could talk back to him in German. (BTW,I'm English)

 

Oh well!

 

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Money isn't everyting, but it helps

 

Steve Chicken

 

[futharkred]

 

 

Agent007's idea sounds good to me. It would require, for mutual feedback, several writers at least with great fluency in both English and whichever other language, to maintain the original feel of the game and be able to convey it as strongly as possible. With the right talent or inspiration, the translated versions could be as good as or better than the original (well, not with EfMI--what could be better?!!)

 

 

As for the other problems attached to it, given the linguistic ability and sense of humor, the translating work needn't be all that difficult, and should be a lot of fun. Having the framework to startwith is an enormous help, like doing a take-off on a song or story. By coincidence, my sister just sent me a Spanish/English version of The Night Before Christmas that's a riot, and largely because of the switching back and forth. (In terms of EfMI that would be an additional option--multilingual versions, with interlinguistic puns and fun-making.)

 

 

This latter aspect might work all the better with the global communications of the internet. People could get to appreciate each others' languages more, if they liked, and this kind of interchange (maybe even working partnerships) has a lot of potential.

 

 

Finally, getting back to the original point of the topic, it should be highly cost-effective--if the versions in French, Italian and otherwise are poor cousins to the original, they (and other such translations) probably don't do (or sell) as well as they could.

 

 

But I do appreciate the point raised by Dwalin, which I didn't know--that Norwegians (and perhaps some others?) tend to use English not just as an international language for practical purposes, but for its full use--e. g., cultural areas such as films, TV and games also are seen and heard in the original. As an American of at least half-Norse extraction (v. 'futhark', as Dwalin points out), and one who loves languages, I can identify with many of the responses on this question.

 

 

Is there any chance of finding out how LucasArts actually puts their translated versions together?

 

--Paul (and Eric) Nelson

[Jojo Jr]

Hey, I'm Israeli,

of course we didn't translate EMI to Hebrew, that would be really stupid (mainly because English and Hebrew are SOOOOOO different, but also because 95% of Israelis understand English maybe better than Hebrew).

And I think it is really stupid anyway to translate movies and TV-series... Subtitles are MUCH MUCH better - if you don't understand something you can read them, and you still can hear the jokes in their original language...

 

Anyhow,

I don't judge you French/Italian/Spanish guys... it's not your fault... it's your government's...

 

BUT: I would REALLY like to know how do they translate the insults... At least in CMI, when they have to rhyme...

That should be REALLY hard! A real comeback AND a rhyming one...

 

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Aak Eek Chee for you, from Jojo Jr.!

[Targ]

Hi,

 

is it possible that the English language is simply better suited for quick humor, as in snappy one-liners? I am German (a people with a proverbial sense of humor) and couldn't understand why MI3 constantly got such bad ratings in all the listings here...but now I realize a lot of my enjoyment of that installment must be because that was the only one I played in English.

 

Bad adaptations of games into other languages can completly destroy a game. It starts with the script and continues on to the voices used. Since the popularity of computer games in Germany has always lagged behind that in the US, for example, only lately have some real efforts been made to get professional dubbing voices and well written scripts.

 

In MI4, that produced so so results: the actors are good (that is, the voices don't annoy),but the translation is sometimes too literal. For example: "What do you know..." is definetly not "Was weißt Du". Grim Fandango was the best so far in that regard.

 

As to bad translations being total game killers: in MI2 I was stuck for a total of two weeks, because the German term for a "monkey wrench" is simply not in any way equivalent to monkey wrench. But...coming to think of it: that wasn't a translation issue; the answer was logical within an English language puzzle.

 

So...I do prefer playing games in English, but alas, they are hard to come by and usually a lot more expensive.