Guest Innror Posted June 6, 2000 Share Posted June 6, 2000 That's an easy one. It fell into the asphalt machine..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chillin Posted June 6, 2000 Share Posted June 6, 2000 So basically the rain koan was a trick question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted June 7, 2000 Share Posted June 7, 2000 Yup. Actually, all zen riddles are trick questions of one kind or another. The point to a trick question is not the question itself but a direct pointing at the process of analysis...and this is entirely what zen is about. HO! *Smack!* Another zen tradition: the master would, at the appropriate time, shout or smack the student with a stick. This was another approach, ment to startle the student into suddenly realizing the true nature of reality by removing him from his own train of thought. Personally, I think the zen masters were a little crazy... ------------------ "I sought the true nature of reality but discovered instead the real nature of truth." --Thrustweasel of Earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shootist Posted June 7, 2000 Share Posted June 7, 2000 Smack? With a Stick? Ain't no Zen Brother...that's my ex-WIFE!!! She was so mean Leona Helmsley used to come over for lessons!!! ------------------ VERY FUNNY SCOTTY, now please beam down my PANTS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted June 7, 2000 Share Posted June 7, 2000 Ah, yes. Pink Dragon Lady...very powerful samurai. We still honor her in a number of shrines. She is always depicted with the frying pan and rolling pin, her weapons of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Evil Spock Posted June 7, 2000 Share Posted June 7, 2000 Evil Spock here. I think another interesting bit of Japanese culture that we can explore here and have fun with would be the practice of seppuku. Did I say seppuku? I meant haiku, a form of poetry. The idea is to express a pure or tranquil moment in precisely sixteen syllables. For example: 'Gently I put the sun out; nice birds come no longer toward me.' Or: 'Once I liked this bar. It is too bad these bullets aren't hollow-point.' Hah? Next? ------------------ "Beware the bearded one." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Master Posted June 7, 2000 Share Posted June 7, 2000 ....But Zens are Zens..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chillin Posted June 7, 2000 Share Posted June 7, 2000 Hows this? "The elite, they are sleek, swift, and deadly. They are the X-Wing fighters." Pretty good huh? ------------------ "Tis easier to ask forgiveness than permission." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 'Crash goes the X-wing. It flies straight into the mountain's side at dawn.' More zen riddles for The Master? Okay, how about this one: "How does one go north from the North Pole?" Meanwhile, I have a haiku that I know Shootist will like. 'Help me please from the ladies' shower; this black eye does not see well.' ------------------ "I sought the true nature of reality but discovered instead the real nature of truth." --Thrustweasel of Earth [This message has been edited by Imladil (edited June 08, 2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Master Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 I know this one! You go UP the pole at the north pole. There for you go north! Ha ha! I am brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chillin Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 MASTER, if you went up the pole at the North Pole you would actually be going up in altitude, completely different from going North. Well if there was a center to this galaxy, and it was considered North then you could go north by going into space and flying towards it. On this planet you would not be able to go any farther North because you are at North. From the North Pole then inly direction you can go is South, assuming you do not skip dimensions or go into space. ------------------ "Tis easier to ask forgiveness than permission." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Master Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 DON'T ARGUE WITH ME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 So, is north an absolute (as Chillin seems to be saying), or is north relative? Is north merely 'not south,' or do we come to places where there simply is no more north? I, of course, would find more north by shrinking my perspective; after all, when you go down in size to an inch or so, suddenly the pole is over that way again! Unless you were balanced so perfectly on the pole that it coincided with your bodily meridian. Then it becomes a question of whether perfection truly exists in this universe, because once we start regressing the scale on such a balance, the slightest flaw would upset it completely. HO! *Smack!* ------------------ "I sought the true nature of reality but discovered instead the real nature of truth." --Thrustweasel of Earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 It occurs to me that the 'shout-and-stick' tradition (known as katsui) could be vastly misinterpreted if overheard in a rough neighborhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lt Cracken Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 G/p, Imladil. Kids, don't try to teach bhuddist Zen to children in the ghetto, or other rough neighborhoods. you WILL get shot. a public service announcement. ------------------ Even if you dodge this, Kakarotto, THIS PLANET'S GOING UP IN SMOKE!! Vegeta, DragonBall Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shootist Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 IMLADIL, how considerate to think of my lobido. However..."Help me please back into the ladies' shower, I have one more good eye!" ------------------ VERY FUNNY SCOTTY, now please beam down my PANTS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chillin Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 Alright guys here's a new koan: "How far is far?" Another question: (not a koan) How do you make your words bold? ------------------ "Tis easier to ask forgiveness than permission." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 I make my words bold with whiskey and youthful arrogance. Plus I wear a sword. Seriously...put a b in [brackets] in front of what you want boldfaced, and behind it the same thing only backslashed (like this: /b, inside the brackets.) If you're still confused, click on the edit button for this post and you can see how it's done. 'Shoo--away with temple monkeys! I have no matches to give them.' (Today's haiku.) Intriguing koan, Chillin. Far is a relative matter. Since I was looking for my remote control today, while the teevee was just ten feet away (but still 'too far' to just change the channel manually,) I'd have to say that for me, far is just under ten feet. A serious look at it would be to relate myself to what I understand of the size of the universe...this would be a conceptual exploration, so it would have to be visualized in a meditational context. I get as far as understanding how big I am compared to the world before I lose my sense of perspective, but you can (in theory, anyway) conceive of that scale when applied to the solar system, galaxy, galactic cluster, etc. This is harder than it sounds: you have to relate your scale to your house, then your city...maybe your county or province, whichever, truly understanding how big you are in comparison...taking that understanding into larger and larger perspectives. It is awesome, though, when you get a glimpse of understanding just how big things really are. Or how far. ------------------ "I sought the true nature of reality but discovered instead the real nature of truth." --Thrustweasel of Earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Master Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 It is kind of like the question "How far is up" It is as far as you want it to be. I did a little research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chillin Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 What IMLADIL is saying about comparing your self to the Universe and such, don't do it. I thought about it, it makes you fell so insignificant and depressed. ------------------ "Tis easier to ask forgiveness than permission." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chillin Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 A word of advice... don't actually start comparing yourself to the Universe, I did, it makes you feel insignificant and depressed. Thank youImladil! ------------------ "Tis easier to ask forgiveness than permission." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 Depressed? Oh, no, my friend...that means you haven't followed that line of reasoning through all the way. You see, one of the greatest wonders about the nature of our existance is that despite how insignificant one individual is in comparison to all the rest of the universe, that individual is A: unique, B: aware of its own existance, and C: has qualities that transcend the material plane. What do I mean by that last part? Essentially that everything else in the universe (non-living) can be completely known if analyzed...if you bust a rock and thoroughly analyze the rubble, you can know everything there is to know about that rock--how much of what element, mass, etc. No more mystery (assuming you have perfect science.) But a living being is different. The nature of consciousness is such that it is constantly generating new ideas, putting new observations together to form new theories. If you know everything there is to know about that being one moment, then by the next it has created new elements to its psyche. And, there are times when our minds clearly think way, way outside the box (which is entirely what zen is about) that give us reason to recognize that we are truly special...small, but hardly insignificant! So, taking our own special nature into consideration, let us look again at us compared to that vast universe. There is a part of ourselves (the ego) that wants to believe that we are great...this is because sometimes that big universe can seem scary, and it tries to protect itself by 'puffing itself up' like some puffer fish making a threat display. The universe, of course, is ambivalent to such 'ego-puffing,' but it does make us feel better about ourselves...it is a useful part of our psyche in this sense, but it can lead to distortion in our worldview if it gets out of control! I'm sure we've all met people of this category (I tend to be one. ) When we take the time to compare our egos to reality, we can get ourselves closer to the truth. The trick is to face that subconscious fear of being small by remembering what it is about oneself that is special. Then we can honestly rejoice about how wonderfully complex the universe is and how important our place in it is. So, Chillin, I hope you can use this to fix the depression! If not, I'll have to act silly and 'sneak in the back door' so to speak... ------------------ "I sought the true nature of reality but discovered instead the real nature of truth." --Thrustweasel of Earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chillin Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 Imladil, are you a phychiatrist? If not you sure do think about alot of stuff. I just tend to not really worry about much and don't really look into the deeper jist of things, if I did I would probably be able to realize stuff like that and be a lot smarter for it. I will try to change. I not sure would that qualify as an epiphany? ------------------ "Tis easier to ask forgiveness than permission." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shootist Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 Sorry for missin'out fer a while...long hours saving capitalism this week...tired. You can actually go to the North Pole and still go North. There are two North Poles. Really! There is the geographic NP and then there's the magnetic NP, one has to do with maps, the other has to do with the mass of the Earth and where the magnetic poles around the earth converge in the northern hemisphere. That's the one your compass points to. So, if you're standing at one NP, simply rephrase your goal. You'll be a few miles away from the other pole. When you get THERE. change your quest again and go back to the first pole. Theoretically you could go from ONE North Pole, change your mind and go to the OTHER pole forever...or 'til you froze yer tuckus off. ------------------ VERY FUNNY SCOTTY, now please beam down my PANTS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted June 10, 2000 Share Posted June 10, 2000 No, Chillin, I'm afraid that I'm just a cook. You want fries with that? Epiphany: regardless of that ridiculous commercial with Avery Brooks (which gets the concept of epiphany totally wrong), an epiphany is a profound realization that goes beyond words. When one receives an epiphany, one suddenly understands a complex situation or relationship on a level that goes beyond our own reasoning...this is due largely in part to the realization coming from God Himself. A good example would be an astronaut (I forget which one, but this did happen) seeing the world from space for the first time...and just from that, coming to a profound understanding about his own place in all of it. In the far east, this process of learning 'from God' as it were is called enlightenment (not to be confused with illumination, where you 'see the light') and is the actual intended result of the practice of zen. Zen is basically intended to prepare the mind for receiving enlightenment...or epiphany, as it were. But, learning directly from God isn't something people just decide to do! Most aspirants in the east study their arts and meditate all their lives without receiving the truth, while there are some rare folk who have and understand the all of it from day one (I call this 'the path of Bubba.') There are a number of factors involved in preparing the mind, body and soul for enlightenment, and the requirements vary from person to person. Most religions deal with these requirements directly, with Buddhism taking the most straightforward approach (although I, personally, am Christian.) My advice for any who wish to pursue such a path would be to take up a religion and a system of meditation both. I believe you mentioned a church group, Chillin, so it would seem that you have that part covered. While I personally enjoy zen and its indirect approach to realization, I must give Kabbalah the vote for being more useful to the earnest westerner who wishes to simply learn the truth. There are a number of good introductory books on the subject, with my pick being The Elements of the Qabalah by Will Parfitt. I give Shootist extra points for the north pole observation. It would seem that north is relative and not absolute. It was busy at work and my brain is too fried to do a good koan for tonight. I'll do a nice haiku instead: 'Strange noises from my refrigerator...I think it wants me dead.' ------------------ "I sought the true nature of reality but discovered instead the real nature of truth." --Thrustweasel of Earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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