Guest Imladil Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 I'm sorry. Which part confuses you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Q Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 *all the sudden there was a sudden flash* You called Mon Capitain. If you are wondering about my answer is because you can't misplace a living thing in to a different area with different climate so imediatly. It's like putting your gold fish in 50 degree water after haveing it for awile in 65 degree water. Now wasn't that obviose? I guess it is to comlicated for you little mortals. ------------------ I am the supreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chillin Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 Yes,the tree makes a noise. Even though we don't hear it we know it made a noise because we know from our past experiences that when a tree falls it makes a noise. But I have a forest in the back of my house, and if I never see the fallen tree I will never even know the tree existed at one point unless I can recall every single tree in that forest and I check on them everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chillin Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 Also here is a new koan... Can a simulated character that somehow gains consiousness live outside of the simulation? I would say yes, because to quote someone or another "I think, therefore I am." (I got the idea from a Star Trek, the next generation show.) So I guess I just copied off of something to get the koan, but it's still a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest George the Armadillo Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 I am just testing your infantile species. My confusion is just a front... yes, about the simulated thingy. I am that right now. ------------------ I've never done a stupid thing in my entire life, with the exception of all that stuff I did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Master Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 You got that question from the episode *Elementary Dear Data*, am I not wrong. Did you see the sequel to that one that came later in the series called *Ship in a Bottle*? Good old Moriarty is wreaking havok in both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 Q: ah, but you don't give us mortals enough credit! One of the amazing things about our kind is that despite the limitations of our physical construction, we have the ability to transcend those limitations. Example: There was study done concerning the energy effectiveness of different animals and their own modes of locomotion. On the basis of distance traveled for calories burned, the natural scale of effectiveness culminates with the buzzard, whose wide wings allow him a maximum of travel for a minimum of effort...mankind, who walks, is quite far down the list. The scientist conducting the study had a flash of insight--he decided to test the energy effectiveness of a human on a bicycle. On a bicycle, still using his own energy, but adapting its use with a contraption of his own design, the human far outperformed even the buzzard. As for thinking, I will agree that most people do not think 'outside the box.' Most people have boundaries drawn into their worldview--like Luke, unable to levitate his X-wing because it was 'too big.' However...if we can learn to push those boundaries out further, we have the ability to expand our own consciousness and think in areas completely new to our kind. And that's what's got you scared...isn't it, Q? <font size=1>I must reflect on the holographic consciousness question before answering. More later...</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 Well, it looks like Chillin will be chillin' with the first lady. Congrats, and don't worry about the Secret Service--they see this sort of thing all the time. The tree would make a noise. Duh. A lot of folk would argue that it is impossible to prove that the tree made a noise, because that noise was not perceived by a human being. I say that this reflects a worldview which is based entirely on what one can perceive...and such a mind is, unfortunately, thinking within boxes. HO! *Smack!* The tree fell, and we can say with reasonable certainty that this action is always accompanied by a great deal of vibration. If there was air in that forest--and I think this likely--then those vibrations took the form of a great deal of noise. One could argue that the vibrations were not true noise, having no eardrums to fall upon...at which point I would accuse the debater of being a secret Vulcan and have him studied by medical science. We could learn much from dissecting a Vulcan, yes... What we see, and hear, and know of is not all that there is. It is just the beginning. I'm still working on your hologram koan, Chillin. A good one, that. ------------------ "I sought the true nature of reality but discovered instead the real nature of truth." --Thrustweasel of Earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Master Posted June 27, 2000 Share Posted June 27, 2000 And where is Q when we need his input on this after all it did come of the series that he ORIGINATED from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted June 28, 2000 Share Posted June 28, 2000 Okay. Here is my take on the 'holodeck koan.' If a holodeck creation gained true consciousness the way Moriarty (and the Doctor from Voyager) did in Star Trek, it would be restricted to a holographic environment. Just as we cannot exist at the center of the sun, a holographic being cannot exist in an environment harmful to its own nature. In the real world, the lack of a hologrid would be fatal to any being which neeeded one to exist! Now...that hologram would be a conscious being, with a soul and rights and existance just like you or me. But would it be able to spontaneously change the nature of its being and simply exist without a hologrid? No, it couldn't do so any more than I can grow gills and live in the river. There is a possibility, however, opened up by the data-based nature of its consciousness; that consciousness could be downloaded, just like any other computer program, into another computer's memory. The Doctor on Voyager does this with his mobile emitter, which carries around a memory bank and hologrid just for his use. A holographic consciousness could also be loaded into a robot or android...which would essentially give it the solid body it's been lacking all along. Another possibility, and a creepier one, that occurs to me is that if the technology to integrate biological and technological nervous systems is ever developed, a data-based consciousness could be downloaded into a living body. Ooooh, now there's a comforting thought... Tired Imladil tonight. It's, oh say, The Master's turn to come up with a koan. Well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Master Posted June 28, 2000 Share Posted June 28, 2000 Okay here is a quick one. Is it possible to never have a beginning but still exist? Now explain.... Well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shootist Posted June 29, 2000 Share Posted June 29, 2000 IMLADIL, I see you remembered my comment about sound being the translation of sound waves by the brain...but you Weren't s'possed ta tell anybody I'm a Vulcan. ------------------ VERY FUNNY SCOTTY, now please beam down my PANTS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted June 29, 2000 Share Posted June 29, 2000 Vul-can...? Dissect, yes! Hooray for science! The Master, you have just asked a very intriguing question! My first reaction is a 'no,' with a 'what if?' on the end. I must think on this matter more... ------------------ "I sought the true nature of reality but discovered instead the real nature of truth." --Thrustweasel of Earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Master Posted June 29, 2000 Share Posted June 29, 2000 So... start the explaining.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chillin Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 I haven't posted here for a while (2 days), but thats long for me. Well I will have to get back to ya on a few of these. Actually I might have to get back to you guys on Monday, I'm going up to Chicago to see my grandma, she is sick and might not even make it through the rest of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shootist Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 My family and I wish you a good trip and please take a prayer from us to your grandmother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 10-4 on that, from the rest of the squadron... Chillin, I've found that offering comfort on this matter invariably doesn't come out the right way. You have, of course, my prayers...and the comforting words must simply go unsaid. I'm sure that you understand them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 Existance without beginning. After much thought, I have come up with two possible answers...neither of which can be proven over the other with science. It depends on whether the universe is finite (began with the Big Bang and will expand until entropy has claimed it) or repeating (has enough mass that it collapses back in on itself and begins again--in an endlessly repeating cycle.) Whether it's A or B depends on how much matter there is in the universe...and right now, the evidence seems to suggest that there is less matter, although none of our models take into account the existance of heaven or hell (which, if real, must exist somewhere...and more dimensions imply more possible matter.) Possibility A, the finite universe. In this case, the existance of a thing without beginning is impossible. At the beginning of the entire universe, the creative act took place with the bringing of being from nothingness...and nothing is just that, no thing. If you chase the logic far enough, you will find that in order for existance to come into being, there first had to be a state of nothingness--no observer or object, no nuttin'. If our hypothetical thing had been present when the universe was created, then its beginning occured with the universe's...otherwise, it wouldn't have had a universe in which to exist. Possibility B, the repeating universe. In this case, everything that is has been in existance forever, without a definitive beginning. It coalesces with the rest of the universe down to one point in the 'Big Crunch,' then expands outward again with the Big Bang. During the lifetime of the universe, nothing is either created or destroyed...it merely changes form. Matter becomes energy, then changes back in nuclear reaction...that matter changes form over the millenia, being changed into denser and denser elements by generations of stellar fusion. When the universe comes to the end of its life, all of our matter/energy begins the cycle over again. So...which is it? Go measure all of the matter in the entire universe, heaven and hell included, then come back to me with the figures. Then maybe we can settle this koan definitively. Where did Q get to, anyway...? We'll need him for the measurement process. ------------------ "I sought the true nature of reality but discovered instead the real nature of truth." --Thrustweasel of Earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Master Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 I think he is scared of us and ran away back to his precious Continuum. And Chillin, prayers from The Master to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 Yes, saddening, that. I was looking forward to having an actual ominscient being in the conversation... Okay, I have a new koan for y'all to chew on: "What is the river running from?" And a haiku, too. I like 'em, anyway. 'Softly come the bombs, breaking concrete...so the grass can grow again.' ------------------ "I sought the true nature of reality but discovered instead the real nature of truth." --Thrustweasel of Earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Master Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 The river (which ever one that maybe) starts from a little stream which eventually more streams join it and then the water source gets bigger and <font size=3>bigger and <font size=4>bigger and <font size=5>bigger <font size=2>until it becomes officailly a river. (I could of kept going) [This message has been edited by The Master (edited July 01, 2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 I see. So you're saying that the river is running from its own smallness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Master Posted July 2, 2000 Share Posted July 2, 2000 Yep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Commander 5-98 Posted July 2, 2000 Share Posted July 2, 2000 actually it starts at a large underground water source(a large spring)and when it starts it is no more than a trickle and then over thousands of years of higher water levels and flowing it may create a canyon(depending on soil and water speed and this has nothing to do with the question but...)and anyway the water for some reason flows southward(every river eventully does that)and as it flows it flows into little creek bootoms and low plaves off to the side causing other rivers.Also it runs into other tributaries and keeps this up until it hits the ocean. Any questions? ------------------ I rule this ocean with an iron fist,an iron tail, and for that matter an iron everything-Metalseadramon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest George the Armadillo Posted July 2, 2000 Share Posted July 2, 2000 Deep inside the earth, there are very large potatos with arms and legs and the rivers are running from them ------------------ I've never done a stupid thing in my entire life, with the exception of all that stuff I did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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