legal stuff...

[Guest Rogue15]

here's the note for the other moderator saying that it is legal:

 

Technically, neither roms nor emulators are inherently "illegal." This is a common myth perpetrated on the internet, sadly.

Many have a similar misconception about MP3's, or photocopiers.

 

Emulators are 100% legal, and in various court battles, when emulator companies have been sued, they have nearly always won. You can go to the store and buy commercial emulators that will play 100% perfectly commercial games for other console systems that are still being sold.

 

Some programs refer to themselves as emulators or are thought of emulators but aren't technically emulators (such as bleem!), but they peform a similar function, which is that they allow you to play the games of a specific system, without actually owning that system.

 

Not all emulators are alike of course.

 

Roms as well are not always illegal. Technically if you own a liscense to use a game, you are allowed to make a backup copy or if your current copy breaks down. Also companies that no longer exist have often released their roms to the public.

 

As well there are cases of freeware or shareware roms that are free to use under certain conditions.

 

It is even possible to buy packages of roms from legitimate dealers. Example: the HotRod SE joystick comes with a cd-rom containing about 14 Capcom arcade roms (which are officially liscensed and therefore 100% legal to use, even if you don't own the original arcade boards). Many companies have started in recent years to release rom packages (Sega Smash Pack is another example) for free or for profit, as well as commercial emulators for modern and obsolete systems.

 

Even in the case of roms that are technically "not legal" to download unless you own the original game, most sites maintain an "honor system" with regards to roms of games that are no longer being sold commercially (and thus cannot profit the original companies anymore). For example: atari2600 games.

 

If you think about it, any obsolete system is up for grabs if you take the type of stance many emulator sites do. If you go to a hobby store and buy a bunch of used Sega Saturn games, Sega doesn't see a dime of that money. Granted Saturn emulation is in its infancy, but even if it were, it wouldn't be financially hurting Sega anymore than buying their used games and paying full price. That's one way to look at it.

 

Another thing to realize is that what a lot of emulator/rom sites say is incorrect. I have seen many a site that says something to the effect of:

 

"These roms are illegal to possess unless you buy the original game or delete them from your computer in 24 hours!!! We are not responsible for what you do with these files! They are for educational purposes only!"

 

The problem with this sort of thing, is that this "disclaimer" has no legal backing at all. If someone (say a game company) wanted to bust you for downloading their roms which they considered a violation of some copyright law, it wouldn't matter if they were on your computer for 2 minutes or 56 hours. I don't think they will care. Some sites (such as ones hawking N64 roms recently) have been shut down by the IDSA, because they claim it hurts their business (considering N64 games and systems are still being sold new in stores). The websites are directly involved by making the file available, so they are responsible, as are those who download them.

 

Now, one can try to argue that only folks with fast connections, big harddrives (or cd burners) and patience can get these games (a small percentage of gamers compared to the thousands who will simply buy or rent the actual games), but they do have a right to protect their intellectual property if they choose to, at least the way the laws currently are. That doesn't mean people can't write programs to emulate them though, or to make copies of games they bought.

 

Also, not every game that is emulated is emulated perfectly. Often a person needs a very fast computer to do the game justice, so there is still some incentive to buy the original (if you can even find an original anymore). Of course this is changing as emulators get better, but the point still applies to roms in general. And generally, the newer the system, the more difficult the emulation, and the better the system you'll need to run it.

 

One practice that is generally frowned upon by the emulation "community" at large is the selling of rom cd's. For example, on Ebay, there are always people selling Mame CD's with all 2,000+ roms for $50 or so. This is 100% illegal, because not only are your breaking the freeware/opensource agreement that comes with every copy of Mame by selling it, you are also directly profiting (cdR's cost about $1) from someone else's work, which you have no right to distribute. This type of thing is very hard to control, because sites like Ebay get more business from this type of thing so they look the other way. It is a total waste of money though, especially since Mame roms are constantly "evolving" and old versions are often not compatible. Bootleggers can make a killing off of the ignorance of a few folks.

 

One can see that the use of roms and emulators is not the same thing as using say "warezed" games.

 

Let me reiterate the policy of these forums which is that we do not in any way condone illegal activity. If this were an illegal topic, I would end it right here and now and delete your post(s).

 

Kurgan

 

 

[Guest Red 5]

All I know is that CJayC would rip you a new one if you tried to post something about Roms. I know, I got 1 moderated for just saying the word Roms, and another for recomending iNES, a nintendo emulator. Please don't moderate me. Let's see if that works here .

[Guest GUNNER]

Rogue15, that other moderator does not work here. Granted I don't have a clue what a rom or umulator is but if you look at the sign up page that everyone agrees to before they join I "have the right to delete any message for any or no reason whatsoever."

 

 

There have been other posts here of where to get warez and I figured this was the same so as such I decided to remove it. But, that was my choice to make as I am an Administrator here.

 

If you want to go to jediknight.net and post it that is fine but I would ask that you go by the rules here and my interpitation of them. I don't ask for much and don't interfere to often so I figure this one wish would be easy to swallow.

 

I am not looking for a fight or a battle of who is right and who is wrong.

 

I made a call and I stick by it.

 

GUNNER.

 

[This message has been edited by GUNNER (edited November 16, 2000).]

[Guest GUNNER]

I was jusy over at JediKnight.Net and looked at the thread about ROMS/Emulators and in Kurgans second post he said "use or emulators/roms is a somewhat complex and often gray issue, it's not always legal and it's not always illegal".

 

Soooooo.

[Guest Rogue15]

he meant it is illegal to get the new games, like the ones you can pick up at the stores, which is pretty stupid to do since you like need a super fast computer, it's legal if you have bought the game though.

 

What i think is, ok, i've spent $50 on star wars racer, ok, it's dropped to $10, so i say, ok, what if i would've waited and bought it at $10, i would have enough to get that other game i wanted that i wanted, so i get the game that i would've been able to get, which is usually a super nintendo game, which nintendo does not make or sell anymore. Emulator people and Rom people then are allowed to take those games, and put them up on the internet for free to play on the computer, nintendo isn't losing anything, 'cause they aren't selling those games at the stores anymore. People do the same thing with nintendo 64 stuff, but i'd say that's pretty much illegal to dload them, unless you cannot find the game at the rental, so to amke it feel legal you get the emulator and the rom, play the game you couldn't find at the rental, and then delete it.

 

I'll explain to you what an emulator and a rom is:

 

An emulator is a "port" that allows you to play the nintendo games, which are called roms when converted to computerized format.

 

You can find roms and emulators everywhere, since i'm going to be cool and obey the guidelines and agreement, i won't say where.

 

The most popular roms and emulators are for the super nintendo and the regular nintendo, and for atari etc.

 

I recently got a gameboy color emulator, and since i can't rent any games for the game boy color my sister has, i decided to dload 2 of the newer ones, and 1 of the regular game boy ones. They work fine, but it'd be a whole lot easier to play on a game boy color.

 

Well, i gotta go check some more boards.

 

 

[Guest Fondas]

Rogue 15, This is a grey area. No one can be sure about several roms's legitimacy, except specific company lawyers.

 

Common knowledge dictates that unless is clearly stated otherwise, creators have the copyright of their creations.

 

Can you personaly guarantee about that particular site's content ?

 

If not, you can surely understand why an Administrator would not let such a site "advertised" here.

 

 

[Guest Rogue15]

i understand that they're illegal, but isn't renting them also illegal? So what if it's illegal, i could care less, it's not like i murdered somebody and threw them in a dumpster full of gasoline and lighted a match! The super nintendo games are DEAD, nintendo does not sell them anymore, and should be HAPPY THAT THEIR WORK IS STILL BEING PLAYED EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE ARE GETTING THE GAMES FOR FREE. But there's a catch, sometimes the games you dload are very hard to play without the super nintendo controller pad, So the people who make gamepads profit off of it! So if people would ban roms and emulators form the net, then the Gamepad makers would be losing money from it.

 

I think i've made my point, now Gunner, would you please send this whole topic to kessel?

 

 

 

 

[Guest R.A.V.E.N.]

what? I dont work here? I just slave and slave for you people and i just get no respect! Hmph!

[Guest GUNNER]

As you request Rogue15.