Guest LukA_YJK Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Dear Friends ! Just took the last opportunity to "see" you all again before the long leave and saw the Religion thread. After some hesitation decide to write my opinion, although feel that maybe I am risking to loose your friendly attitude I was born in a country that was occupied long ago by the Red Empire, the main idea of which was repudiating of God - atheism, where believers were victimized. So I had no chance to learn about religion in school, family, community, but I had some feelings in my heart... In 1991 when my country retake its Freedom I got such a chance to learn more about religions from books, people, even cartoons and movies In short: Finally I adopted Islam. Maybe the blood talked in me, but it had objective reasons. Some points were confused me in Christianity: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LukA_YJK Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 <SMALL>Sorry my position differs from yours, also sorry for possible mistakes and misinformation because of smallnes of my knowledge.</SMALL> <U>God created the man in His own shape ?</U> Does it mean that the creator of everything is looking like a human ? I could not accept it. If it is so then is God man or woman, white, black or red <SMALL>In a Hollywood movie I watched once, where one actor (private Ryan) plays the Angel with a strange name Locky (or such) and another actor (Karl, who seizes the Nakatomi building in other movie with Bruce Willis) plays the Angel Gabriel, the God was played by a woman (black-haired singer with italian surname who sang "Thank you") ! God forgive me...</SMALL> <U>Jesus is the God ?</U> I don't think that Jesus [peace on him] said "I am the God" and "worship me". He was praying, but whom if he was the God himself ? Is he God because of his divine birth - he had not a father, but Adam [p.o.h.] had not even a mother "God being 3 beings, but all the same, God, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit" but we differ these 3 even saying in a certain sequence. I could not accept these and that he died for our sins. Does it mean do what you want and then go to confess ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LukA_YJK Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 To my shame I don't know much about Islam but I will try to write about the basics: I believe that Jesus (Iisa) [p.o.h] was a man miraculously borned by order of the God (Al-lah), but not quite ordinary man, he was a prophet of the God as Abraham (Ibrahim), Moses (Muusa), Noah (Nuuh) ... and Adam - the first man and prophet. Every time when people lose the right way the God choose a man to remind the Law. The latest and last was prophet Muhammed [p.o.h.], about whom Christianity perhaps says same things that Judaism says about Jesus [p.o.h.] The revelations of the God received by the last prophet were collected in a holy book - Qur'an and its text alredy more than 1000 years protected from even slightly modifications (what we can not say about the Bible, the original text of which was lost as far as I know). "say: he is the God only; the God firm; do not give birth and was not born; and there is no one equal him" Many verses of this really wonderful book has a hidden sence which clears up centuries later: "when the sky is torn apart, so it was <A href="http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap991031.html">like a rose, like ointment</A>; then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny ?" Of course, it does not prove anything. Who does not believe will say "this is a coincidence" or at worst will device some arrivals from the space Who adopted Islam i.e. moslem must 1) believe in God, his Angels, his Books, his prophets, the Justice Day, good and bad are from the God, revival after the death 2) say the words of testimony "I testify that there is no god but the God and I testify that Muhammad is his slave and prophet", five times daily make prayer - movements like physical exercise accompanied by words, fast one month in a year, give a certain part of income to poor people, piligrimage to Mekkah if have enough means, struggle against inside and outside evil. Islam answered my question what is Good and what is Bad more clearly <HR>Finally I want to say that naturally there are so many similarities between religions (much more than difference), so I think we should unite agains Evil trying to be better. Good luck and May the Force be with you !<SMALL> [This message has been edited by LukA_YJK (edited March 30, 2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue Renegade Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Luka, of course our "friendly attitude" towards you will not cease! I'm not sure if you'll get this (anticipating your coming absence), but I wanted to mention a few things. 1. Western Movies Our movies and culture do NOT reflect Christianity. This is a difficult idea to communicate to other cultures, but believe me, what you see in the movies does NOT have anything to do with Christianity. A vast majority of Hollywood are either Scientology, New Age, or just plain non-religious. Studios often throw in religious content as a "spoof", making fun of traditional religious beleifs. 2. Created In the Image of God I'm not sure what may be lost in various translations but in English "image" connotes a different idea than "shape". Of course the word used in the Christian Bible is originally Hebrew (tselem). Our creation in God's image is what separates us from animals. What is that "image"? Is it HOW we look (as in a body)? NO. (John 4:24 NASB) "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." The "image of God" in man is what gives us our intellectual, relational, and spiritual capacity. Animals cannot "reason" as we do. They do not have the same capacity for interpersonal relationships as we do. They do not have any spiritual capacity. Humans do. Why? Because, in the likeness of God, we were created with these capacites. 3. Jesus Christ as God The Trinity is difficult to understand. But please understand that we believe in only ONE true and living God, maker of heaven and earth. In the Bible, God has revealed Himself as a tri-unity. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. 4. Substitutionary Death The attitude about "living how you want" then "going to confession" is unfortunately practiced by some. However, this attitude betrays their heart -- they may be religious, but they neither love God nor know Him personally. As for the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ, let me ask you something. Upon what basis does Allah forgive any sin? Sin has a price (death) and someone MUST pay it! Either we must pay it in Hell, or else Christ as our substitute. If we stopped sinning right now in every way and lived a perfect live here on out (impossible, but let's pretend) what could we do about our previous sin? Nothing can erase it. It's penalty must be paid! God is a God of justice. (Exodus 34:6-7 NASB) "Then the LORD passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations." Someone must pay that penalty. Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ paid the penalty as a substitute. If Jesus were just a man or just a prophet, how could His death be so valuable? It could not. If Jesus were ONLY God, how could he make a substitutionary sacrifice in our behalf? He could not. However, because Jesus Christ is both completely God and completely man in one Divine Person (God himself born in the flesh), He could and did accomplish this great task. Upon what foundation does Islam base forgiveness? Who pays the price? ------------------ "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Rev. 1:8) [This message has been edited by Rogue Renegade (edited March 30, 2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dark Sad Shadow Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 ey ey ey ey... REligion? hum... WE ARE PILOTS!!! so get off that f**cking idea!! we are friends!!! so.. like friends we must accept us like we are and like pilots we must fly together ------------------ The shadows become the reapers... we are becoming less humans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 But Sad Shadow, this is a friendly debate! No one has flamed anyone yet, and our friendships are on solid ground. If it makes you uneasy, you can always stay out of it. Luka, I appreciate the idea of a God without form. Such a conceptualization is a lot closer to the facts, methinks. We Christians choose to think of Him as a person so that we can pray to Him more personally, but we don't really have this notion that there is a guy in a hidden room somewhere, controlling everything... 'Ignore the man behind the curtain!' I'm going to attack the trinity windmill later tonight. Tune in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redwing Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 That's right Luka, we now hate you, go away. Just kidding. We won't hate you because of your religion (regardless of what DSS thinks ). In fact, one of my best friends follows Islam. I am firmly Christian, but we don't hate each other just because I don't believe in her religion. ------------------ At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge. [This message has been edited by Redwing (edited March 30, 2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue9 Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 fear leads to anger, anger lead to hate, hate leads to Suffering , so of course we don't hate you, I hate no one, although Jared has succeded in getting on my nerves ------------------ "One RIng to Rule them All, One Ring to find them, One Ring to Bring them All, And in the Darkness Bind them" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redwing Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 LOL! at my brother ------------------ At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Master Posted April 1, 2001 Share Posted April 1, 2001 Ah yes, that saying is true. I am surprised my apprentice is alive as long as he is..... But I haven't looked at the religion thread yet so instead stateing my glorious religion here I will look at it first and post it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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