Guest General_Kioet Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 whoa, this is cool! lots of positive thoughts here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 What happens when we die? As guessed, I will first point out that I haven't died yet, so I don't know. What do I think happens? I must be honest and say that my understanding of the afterlife more closely resembles what the Tibetans have come up with--although there is heaven and hell in that worldview as well! I do believe in reincarnation (which is another can of worms) which complicates the picture a bit--although I believe we can escape being re-born by returning back into God after we die. Read 'I believe' in front of each of my following sentences. After we die, our souls go through a period of readjustment. We are judged on the life we've just lived, and curiously enough, it seems to be ourselves who do the judging...although it should be noted that it is impossible to fool ourselves in that context, and we can become our own best or worst witnesses, depending. If we pass judgement, we will proceed to the afterlife we've believed in all our lives, where we live in joy with God's presence until He has a new mission (life) for us. If not, we can find ourselves in the hell we feel we deserve. As I mentioned earlier, there is also the option of returning back into God and becoming a 'Pillar of Heaven' as it were...but this would be the fate of the highest of the holy (saints, buddhas, whatever.) At the other end, if we piss God off enough, we can be totally wiped from existance as the ultimate punishment. In my worldview of the afterlife, there is also room for a kind of purgatory for those who have done no good but no wrong either. Those souls would wander around here in a kind of 'spirit world' that is just on the other side of our waking existance, until they became bored with it all and found their way back into rebirth. Okay. That's what I think happens when we die. As I mentioned, it is strongly influenced by Buddhist theology. However, since I'm still alive, it is all just theory. Where am I going when I die? I love God! You decide what to think for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ATATwar Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Seriously, i don't think arguing will help, so i won't. If someone makes up there mind, nothing I say will change it. But there is something I would like to say. You mention many things in your above post, but there's something I don't quite get... namely, you're mixing of religions. The following are just examples and not ment to be what anyone I know believes. It seems you are trying to take a little of everything. If you believe the Bible to be true... then the logical choice would be to try to do what it says. If you think the Koran (not sure of the spelling) to be true.. then the logical choice would be to try to do what the Koran says. If you believe Confucionism to be true, then do what confucionism states. It doesn't make sense to say that I believe in a religion, but what I think about that religion is very influenced from another religion. To lay it out... I just don't believe you should partly believe the Bible, but also partly believe Buddhism. The two condemn each other, each saying the other is false by stating what it says is true. Well, so much for my posts on this topic. I've stated my views and I don't think I will again. It would just be repetition. A bientot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redwing Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Hey, don't worry about Imladil arguing, I have no clue where he gets his beliefs from ( ) but he is VERY good at respecting other people's opinions. (Which is why no one flames him. ) ------------------ At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lujayne Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Hey Imladil, I see that you are also influenced by Hindu beliefs, as well as Buddhism. But you didn't tell me if I was right about what mysticism is!! grr! (Oh, just joking I guess.) ATAT, Koran is correct, however Qur'an is more correct. Don't stop posting here! We want to hear your opinion. Oh, a couple more things to you, Imladil. Now I'm curious as to who you believe God is...because I know that Buddhists, for example, have a very different view of God than Christians do, who have a very different view of God than Taoists do, etc. What's your view? (And personally, I don't think being totally wiped from existance would be much of a punishment. ) --L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue9 Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 While I disagree with your points Imladil, I love the way you phrase them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redwing Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 **agree** LOL! ------------------ At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 So how do I come up with this montage of beliefs? Let's see if I can explain... Essentially, I start with the assumption that the real nature of God cannot be fully described by any one religion. In my understanding, the facts remain constant, but 'truth' (our understanding of how and why those facts interact) changes depending on who is experiencing that truth. Does that help? Probably not. I have a metaphor I like to use to illustrate this, based on something we all know and understand: computers. Say a computer is like a human mind--it has a limited amount of memory, so you can't program it to interact with every other computer it will encounter on the internet. There isn't enough room in its databank to program in all the protocols it would need! However...you can install an operating system like Windows 95, which is designed to interact with everything with which it will come into contact. Windows 95 is like a religion (for purposes of the point I'm trying to make.) It has already been worked out, and can be simply downloaded into the machine. No need to program in the system protocols of each new computer it encounters. Since the system accurately describes everything the computer encounters on the 'net, it is 'true.' As far as our computer is concerned, the internet is a great big Windows 95 family, with Bill Gates reigning in the clouds somewhere. (more) [This message has been edited by Imladil (edited April 03, 2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 But then we run into a computer that runs on Linux. What the hell--? It can get around on the 'net, and appears to do the same things we do, but the program it's using makes no sense at all! If we look in on its coding, it's speaking gibberish that clearly isn't 'true.' But both computers are on the internet. So are macs, and I-don't-know-which others... Does that help illustrate my point? If it helps to understand me better, and why I myself have such a marbled belief system, I should mention that when I became a mystic (at the age of thirteen) I rejected all religions out of hand. My opinion was, 'you guys are all full of crap, and I'm gonna find out for myself what's true.' I didn't feel that humans were qualified to tell me the will of God, so I decided not to listen to them. Other than adopting Jesus as a personal 'spirit guide,'there was no reflection of what most would call 'religion' in my life. After fifteen years of meaningful life experiences, much meditation and deep personal contemplation (the two are different,) I finally 'got it,' choose whichever euphemism you prefer here. (more) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 With this new understanding, I looked once again to the religions I'd rejected years before...and I found the truth reflected here and there in all of them! Granted, there were the pawprints of little monkey humans all over the words of God, but they were still legible. Since then, I have been learning all I can about these religions. Everything that has to do with God is of interest to me, and one of my greatest joys in life is walking into an ashram, or a sweat lodge, or some other new kind of temple and thinking, 'Look! Here, too!' Essentially, my relationship is with God. Religions are meant to bring me to Him, but they are not the authority of God Himself...if that reasoning makes sense. Still a rebel after all these years, it seems. So that's where Imladil is coming from. He found God for himself, then studied religion so he could communicate the experience to others. Culturally he is Christian, and Christ is the name by which he 'met' God...but this does not restrict him to that religion alone. *(End transmission)* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GUNNER Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Hello everyone. ~L, my wife has done a study on the book, experiencing GOD with her Young Life girls and she loved it. We have about 5 copies at home. Kuddos for keeping this thread on track and respecting all beleifs. The wife has a list of proven facts why the evolution therory doesn't work all documented my scientist. We leave for Atlanta this morning and if this thread is still going on Monday I'll post some of them when I get back. Lost of intresting facts I never knew... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Lujayne: yes, that is a good definition of a mystic! A mystic is simply someone who seeks a connection to God that lies within... I'm tempted to say 'someone who talks with God,' but the crazy guy on the bus thinks he's talking with God, too. But we never ruled that out, did we? Ha! Ha-ha-hah! Ha-hah! Ha-ha-ha-ha--! *(Stops. Looks around.)* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest General_Kioet Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 lol imladil, i could just see you being reincarnated as wally the dolphin and being put in sea world. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ikhnaton Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Imladil, what if God himself were to start the religion he wanted everyone to follow?Don't you think that religion would contain all the information/truth/yadda yadda that He wanted us to have about him? Now, say you were God (scary thought) and you wanted to found the one true religion/church, wouldn't you set in place some sort of system to keep it from falling into ruin or have the core beliefs changed? I believe that Jesus did in fact do that. Matt 16:18-21 best describes that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Well, I respect that you believe that, Ike. Myself, I believe that God sent to Holy Spirit to all humanity, rather than giving the 'truth' to one group and 'lies' to the rest. Why would He visit one group of people, say 'here's the message' and then force us to fight it out amongst ourselves? If I were God (God forbid) then I would send messiahs (anointed-many) to all the people on all the lands...on all the planets, in all the galaxies, etc. The 'truth only in Christianity' theory makes less and less sense the more you expand your field of view. Please don't take this as an attack on the religion itself, but it seems more likely that the 'little monkey paws' I mentioned earlier wrote in the exclusivity to guarantee the survival of their religion in the multi-cultural atmosphere of the Roman world. The logic has been 'this is the only way, so it better be mine' for too long, and it's gone over without question. So that's why I believe as I do--logic. That all of these religions lead to God (despite the diferences in how they get there) is just another example of this wonderfully complex universe He made for us. I'm going to do a bit on the existance of Trinity in other religions that will help illustrate my point, but it will have to wait until tonight. I must go to work now. Have a pleasant day, all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue9 Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Originally posted by General_Kioet: lol imladil, i could just see you being reincarnated as wally the dolphin and being put in sea world. lol I could see him knocking his trainer into the water , in front of hundreds of tourists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ikhnaton Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 Imladil, i don't believe that people who are not members of the church Jesus founded will go to hell or anything, i just mean that the church Jesus founded will have the best chance of having the fullness of truth. If you look at the thousands of Christian denominations, they all disagree on one point or another. They can't all be *all* right. Only one can be ALL right, while the rest are partly right. As far as non-christian religions such as Hindu and Muslim and Buddhism and all that, I don't know enough about them to say very much, but I do say the same thing. Only one religion can contain the fullness of truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue9 Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 but all Christan Faiths Agree on one Important Point...Jesus Christ, the Son of God came down to earth, and Died on the Cross for Our sins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redwing Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 That is pretty much the definition of Christianity in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue9 Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 Is this Thread Done, Imladil just took off, he didn't even argue like he said he was going to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redwing Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 It hasn't been all that long. ------------------ At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 Some of us have jobs, you know... Trinity can be explained, and I will do so in this post. It's going to require some tricky conceptualization, so I suggest putting out the crack pipes before we start. Thanks. This deals with what happened when the universe began, at the very instant God said 'let there be light.' You see, before then, there was just God. Period. Nothing else...absolutamente zippo, just Him. Now, this existance was an undifferentiated sameness--there was neither light nor dark. From His point of view (and this is the tough part to conceptualize) there was nothingness. But of course, nothingness is something. It has existance (as nothing) and thus...we have a one. This one is God in the absolute, pure being. There is no self, or thought of self...just endless eternity. So now that we've conceived of the nothingness as something, where are we in the picture? In order to make this observation, there has to be an 'us' to make it. The notion of 'self' has just been born. This is where God Himself conceives of His own existance--from nothingness comes being. There are now two (nothingness and being.) The book of Genesis describes this as 'let there be light,' but it's still the same idea. (more) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 Let's review a moment; we have a universe where the concept of two can exist. There is light and dark, being and nothingness, self and perceiver...each resolves the other, provides the framework in which the other can exist. But we aren't finished yet. Now that we have two aspects of God working together to provide existance, there is an implied relationship. With an object/perceiver relationship, there must be a differentiation between the two. This is tricky to get, but one cannot be the other simultaneously--there is a division of some kind between them, and distance, no matter how small, must cross something. There is our three. This third aspect is, of course, God's original act of creating 'others,' or investing His own consciousness in the Holy Spirit. Still within the original 'being' we started with (one, remember?) the third becomes the 'body' of God in a way...it is Him in extension, knowing Himself. Which brings us to why we're here. We are God's way of knowing the universe. Anyway, now that we have created a stable framework on which to build our universe (one cannot exist without two, which cannot exist without a third,) we do so with the Big Bang. The universe comes into being, eventually people form, who invent Star Wars, play videogames and find themselves writing about it here, and wondering how it all started. ...I think. After all, I'm probably full of crap. Tomorrow: Trinity reflected in other religions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Imladil Posted March 31, 2001 Share Posted March 31, 2001 If there are any other cross-religious mystics in the house, they might appreciate my sense of humor in using the three liberations of the Buddha (reversed, of course) to explain trinity. Or, it might just go over everyone's heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue9 Posted April 1, 2001 Share Posted April 1, 2001 Originally posted by Imladil: Some of us have jobs, you know... Like me for instance,I am a full time student, I have a full time job, and I'm still here all the time. ------------------ "One RIng to Rule them All, One Ring to find them, One Ring to Bring them All, And in the Darkness Bind them" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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