Guest Rogue15 Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 From: "Saber2" <saber2@turok.com> Posted At: 08:23:09.000 10/15/2001 Posted To: nintendo@nintendo.com Subject: cube vs. ps2 ok, tell me why gamecube will be better than ps2 if i'm a star wars gamer. like, will the graphics be better, framerate? will there be a way to connect to the net through my existing connection? Subject: Re : cube vs. ps2 Include Original: Yes/No Message(#6851-000018-5121\185121) Hello, It’s great to hear that you are interested in our upcoming GAMECUBE system. We are also looking forward to the release of this fantastic system! We don't have any comparison information about our GAMECUBE and other new systems currently available, so I am unable to compare the systems capabilities at this time. However, while our competitors claim to have impressive specs on their systems, the main thing that really makes a system great is the games! Since Nintendo has the sole rights to the most popular games, including Mario Bros., Perfect Dark, Zelda, Metroid and many more, it will be tough for our competitors to match those blockbuster hits! Currently, the NINTENDO GAMECUBE is scheduled for release on November 18, 2001. The system will carry a Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) of $199.95 U.S. ($299.95 Canadian). At launch, we will offer the system in two colors -- Indigo and Jet Black. Also, there will be five Nintendo titles released around the same time as the system, each one with an MSRP of $49.95 (U.S.). We expect a total of 17 games for the NINTENDO GAMECUBE between launch and the end of the year. Go to www.nintendo.com/spaceworld, as well as the GAME FINDER, SYSTEMS, and NEWS areas of www.nintendo.com for more information. Please keep in mind that release dates are estimates and subject to change. Also, please remember that even though Nintendo may suggest prices for its products, stores are free to determine on their own at what price they will sell their merchandise. In the meantime, I have included a few quotes from national television and newspaper coverage from the Electronics Expo (E3) this week comparing the Nintendo GAMECUBE with the other new systems coming out this year. MSNBC, May 18, 2001 “Nintendo clearly ruled E3, which showcased the console battle between Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft. It unveiled Nintendo GameCube and upcoming games. Judging by the audience's response, Nintendo won the crowd. A "defensive" Sony had a clear strategy; but Microsoft failed to impress. Its executives did not even demonstrate industry knowledge.” The Washington Post, May 18, 2001 “Nintendo drew an overwhelmingly positive response at E3. Upon seeing GameCube, one fan gushed, "this is the best system at E3. Nothing can compare." Microsoft's games garnered a mixed response. One game developer was impressed, while another felt game terrain was bland and speed "laggy." Sony's PlayStation 2 graphics were described as "grainy." PC games took a backseat to console games.” For Star Wars fans, we do have Star Wars Rogue Squadron Leader II coming out on November 18! For more info on this title, please visit our website at: www.nintendo.com While we do expect the GAMECUBE to have internet capabilities, at this time, we do not have many details regarding the NINTENDO GAMECUBE's internet/online access. However, we have announced that we're developing both a 56K modem and a broadband adapter. For the latest information on these upcoming features, as they become available, please visit www.nintendo.com. Also, be sure to check out the special SpaceWorld section of our web site (http://www.nintendo.com/spaceworld) for tons of info on games! We hope this info is helpful! Sincerely, Nintendo of America Inc. Robin Clark Nintendo's home page: http://www.nintendo.com/ Power Line (Automated Product Info): (425) 885-7529 ------------------ By order of Moff Rioet, you are in restricted airspace, surrender immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S1DC Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 Note: The games listed as "blockbuster hits" are intended for a younger age group, and hit a low margin of quality when put up against the rest of the industry. There are far more "blockbuster hits" on the xbox and PS2 than on nintendo, without a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue15 Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 I agree, although I like the Mario games. Super Mario 64, the oldest game on the n64 that is impossible for me to beat. The only nintendo game for cube that looks worth buying is Star Fox Adventures, and that mario kart one or Donkey Kong Racing. ------------------ By order of Moff Rioet, you are in restricted airspace, surrender immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lynk Former Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 What about Metroid...? I predict big things to come from Metroid, plus Nintendo has kept a lot of things about the Cube secret for so long, maybe there are games that are in development that we haven't been told about. Come, if you've been following the news on the GCN as I have you'd have noticed the most of the good stuff is only told to you at basically the last minute. The are plenty of good games if you look and be open minded. If there is a game theme you haven't playing before and you see that it's gonna be released, don't just say, "nah, haven't played it, not worth it..." *shrugs* i dunno. I don't really care about comparisons really. I'm getting both of em anywayz, they both have good games and that's that. ------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue15 Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 only games i'm looking foreward to for cube are: Rogue Leader Star Fox Adventures Turok Evolution (altho i don't believe in evolution, it's going to be an awesome game) That one Simon Jeffery's was talking about, i think it's called Freedom. Episode 2 game...probably starfighter2 except for cube, but who knows? ------------------ By order of Moff Rioet, you are in restricted airspace, surrender immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snooozer Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 i hope you realize thats an automated response from Nintendo right? no one actually typed that. you email them and they have like 25 different automated responses, depending on what you ask for. if you said something about the controller, you would have gotten a different automated response. anyway, I dont even feel like getting into this discussion because of some of the people here. like S1DC said Rogue Leader runs choppy on the GC processor. i tried to correct him, and he says its as futile as comparing a PC to Mac. no its nothing like that. but if thats how you think, then good for you. so dont buy Rogue Leader cuz you think it will run choppy, while everyone else is enjoying it on full progressive scan at a locked 60fps. but seriously, its amazing how far people will go to be ignorant about things they dont believe to be true, especially when confronted with the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue15 Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 I bet you'd think an lec chat is automated too. remember, redwing, when i got everyone thinking that. that was way too funny. hahaha. Xbox will have a higher polygon count, won't it? If so, that's the reason for the 30 fps. A pretty OK tradeoff if you ask me. I've been running jedi knight and mots, both outdated games, they don't have 'realistic' graphics, they run at 30 fps, which i don't notice any difference in a high fps, except the game looks weird, and runs almost too fast. Now, take 30 fps, and a game, say, obiwan running, that's not too bad. Have you seen the obiwan preview? That's probably going to be my favorite xbox game. More polygons, and 30 fps (maybe dropping to 15 when there's ALOT of enemies around). So, what would you go with, higher rez graphics with a lower fps that you might not even notice and get used to, or a lower rez graphics and a super high fps count. You see, all it really comes down to is frames per second and polygon count. ------------------ By order of Moff Rioet, you are in restricted airspace, surrender immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue15 Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 but for me, all i care about is the games that come out for the system. I like the Turok series, so i'll be waiting until Turok Evolution comes out, then I'll get a gamecube. Now, that's smart thinking. I won't have to wait in a long line, I won't have to pay more than I have to for the console I want, and I'll have a bigger variety of games to choose from, and the console might even come with a game, and I have the option to buy a game preowned, at a lower price than a new game. See what a smart gamer I am? ------------------ By order of Moff Rioet, you are in restricted airspace, surrender immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redwing Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 I just want Rogue Leader. ------------------ At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snooozer Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 Rogue15, you really dont know what you're talking about :-P if you think polygon counts really matter (pfft yeah right), then you'd be surprised to know that RL pushes more polygons than any current Xbox game, so whats your point? polygons dont have a direct effect on framerates...in fact that thing I've been mentioning 100 times over, the Gamecube's flipper chip and the 1T-SRAM embedded on the flipper is largely a factor for the high framerates. while every other piece of console or PC hardware, thats never been done. the graphics processor would end up wasting several clock cycles waiting for the info to get from RAM to the graphics processor. thats what generally causes poor framerates, but like I said, usually developers can find tricks to get around it. but now we're at a point where the games actually match up with the hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snooozer Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 anyway, my point was to the other guy who said Rogue Leader runs choppy on the GC processor. so even if what you're saying WAS TRUE, its completely irrelevant since Rogue Leader DOES NOT run choppy on the GC processor. maybe I should be saying...I'd like to see Halo or Obi-wan not run choppy on the Xbox processor. that might sound almost as stupid as what the dude said about RL, but at least i'm not misinformed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue15 Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 obiwan doesn't look too choppy, have u seen the preview over at www.xbox.com ? it even has a slow time on it, so you can play in super slow motion! COOL!!!! ------------------ By order of Moff Rioet, you are in restricted airspace, surrender immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue15 Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 framerate doesn't matter to me, as long as it stays mostly at 30 fps. the higher the polygon count, the greater the detail, right? or am i wrong about that too. I wouldn't be surprised. heh. I wouldn't be surprised if gamecube was a complete failure, and X-Box was a great success, it's made by microsoft after all... as for ram, the reason computer ram seems slow, is cause most computers come with crappy, less expensive DRAM, instead of super fast SDRAM, which holds its memory, and doesn't need to be constantly refreshed. I love knowing about ram, i learned about it all last week in my A+ book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snooozer Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 well, internet movies dont run at 60FPS anyway. so you wouldn't be able to tell. I'm not saying Obi-wan does run choppy, i'm just saying if i DID say that, at least i wouldn't be misinformed. and framerates DO matter. or should I say, SLOWDOWN matters. if you have a game running at a locked 30fps (like Halo) and a game running at a locked 60fps (like RS2), it might not be a big deal. but this brings up the whole reason why developers "lock" framerates. say if Halo ran at 60fps, but then everytime there was a lot of stuff going on on the screen, what would happen? MAJOR SLOWDOWN. this DOES affect games. slowdown has been present since the beginning. and I partly see what you mean...because I'd rather have a locked 30fps game than a game that runs at mostly 60fps but drops to 30fps once in a while. slowdown sucks. but a locked 60fps is always smoother than a locked 30fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snooozer Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 and the original point of my first post here was that the guy who said "I'd like to see RS2 not run choppy on the Gamecube processor" is totally misinformed. this is the one thing you haven't really responded to, or you just said "well, framerates dont matter to me". it depends on the type of game. on a game like Halo i believe framerates do matter. any fast paced action game, especially shooters, are very dependent on the game's framerate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snooozer Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 about the RAM, like I said, i dont want to get into some big tech discussion. all I will say is this, RAM for PC's and RAM for *gaming* are two completely different things. and I know all about DRAM and SDRAM, but again, RAM as far as the general world of PC's go is in a totally different category than it is for gaming. the thing with DRAM (or RDRAM or SDRAM) is its first read from memory is very latent, but if you read in a lot of consecutive data at once, that latency gradually shrinks down. The problem is, games do not use memory like that. they access memory very haphazardly, reading little fragments here and there again and again. RDRAM, or DRAM whichever, isnt geared towards that type of usage. a typical memory wait is a few dozen nanoseconds, and on a standard processor, that's a few dozen cycles wasted waiting for memory. that is what causes low framerates. also, SRAM is comparatively about 10x faster than DRAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snooozer Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 now about the polygon counts. (these blasphemous forums dont let you make long posts, so I have to split it up into several seperate shorter ones). polygon counts do affect detail, yes, but i'm not sure if they quite matter in the way you're thinking. besides, RS2 runs at approx 12-15mpps. find me an Xbox game that pushes as many polygons as that and at 60FPS no less. good luck with that one. but back to the polygon counts, if you looked at the systems statistics, you would think PS2 and Xbox easily push a higher polygon count than Gamecube, but they are just talking raw polygons, those numbers arent taken from any kind of game environment, or any real-time environment at all. those numbers are based on polygons running with no textures, no effects, let alone real-time effects, no lighting, no bump mapping, no nothing. they are not even close to what you would actually see in a game. I dont even know of one PS2 game that pushes more than 10mpps, and even that would be incredibly generous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue15 Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 ah, i knew i was forgetting something!!!!!! everytime i play turok 2 on my n64, (which runs locked at 30 fps most of the time) and get near the end, say the end of level 3, there's all these enemies, and it is VERY choppy, cause there's 10+ enemies on the screen at once...HOW COULD I FORGET THAT!!!! i suppose framerate does matter then, cause with higher framerate, a developer can add more enemies in without risking fps dropping by much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snooozer Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 one last thing. Gamecube is going to fail? I doubt it. Nintendo has been in the console business way longer than Sony or Microsoft, and it's also the cheapest system of the three. WHAT have you been smoking that makes you think it will fail? and about everyone's "kiddy" argument, there you go, its guaranteed that young target audience no matter what, because Xbox and PS2 aren't even geared towards kids in the slightest. so I dont see how it could fail. I'm not trying to say Gamecube is better than the other 2 systems, and i'm not trying to say Xbox and PS2 aren't worthy purchases or even less-worthy purchases than the Gamecube. but if i see misinformation floating around, i'm going to correct it. opinions are opinions and if you say one system is better than the other, thats your choice. but facts are different than opinions and if I see something thats false proclaimed as true, then i will correct it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snooozer Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 by the way, Turok 2 doesnt run "locked" at any framerate, any slowdown means that its not locked. and it doesn't quite run at 30FPS either hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue15 Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 well, i use the expansion pack and letterbox mode. It runs better that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snooozer Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 of course. i never had an N64 without the expansion pack. I got it with my system (I guess you can tell I havent had an N64 for very long). by the way, can I ask you a question R15? look at your first post. IT IS LONG. now whenever i try to make a post longer than say, 2 paragraphs, I keep getting a "page cannot be displayed" error and it NEVER EVER EVER lets me make a post even close to that big. whats your secret R15? howcome you can make long posts and I cant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue15 Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 It's either magic, or because I copied and pasted. being a mod may also have something to do with it. I never said gamecube would be a failure, i just said I wouldn't be surprised if it was a failure. [This message has been edited by Rogue15 (edited October 24, 2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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