Shout Total Annihilation been made by the producers of Starcraft or SWGB??

[Guest PhantomMenace]

Total Annihilation really sucks and it just not very innovating to make a game from top down perspective considering the first Panzer General was made with top down perspective and it had older graphics but was still more fun to play than TA or TA: Kingdoms! It just shows no motivation or daring by a designer to do top down anymore. So who do you guys think should take pity on this crappy series, buy the rights and make the game right? I think Blizzard would do a good job but htey already got warcraft and starcraft. LA did a great job with SWGB...but htey should focus on an expansion pak if htey plan to do another RTS game. So you can download 8,000 units onto a 1.4mb floppy disc and put them in TA, that doesnt make a good game. I think the vote woud have to go to the guys who made STar General and Panzer General. THose two games were very well done and had lots of depth meaning you had to take into consideration feul and ammunition shortages if you werent careful. Those two games had old graphics but TA is only a slight step up. However with thier design skills they coudl make the game good.

[Influenza]

What a joke.

 

I'm not going to start with you PhantomMenace, because it's obvious you've already set your feeble mind against Total Annihilation, so any attempt by me to prove its merits will simply go in one ear and out the other.

 

In the incredible off-chance that you do have a remnant of intelligence in that cavern above your neck, I suggest you read the very long discussion I had with the people on this board already with regards to Total Annihilation and why it beats the pants off every other RTS out there. It might do you some good to read intelligent debate; maybe it'll rub off on you so you can stop posting the nonsense you just did.

 

Bye the way... what the HELL prompted this? Someone dying for attention? Tell your parents, they can help.

 

One more idiot down, plenty more to go

 

Oh, and I don't think it's necessary for me to point out the worthlessness of this thread. Moderators, if you will...

[safire]

No, Total Annihilation shout not have been made by someone else. (FYI, I know it's should, not shout).

 

LucasArts didn't exactly make swgb, they used the AoE engine and made some sprites that looked like Star Wars stuff...

[Guest PhantomMenace]

If Total Annihilation is so great how come no magazine ever rates it in any of hteir top categories? WHy arent they making a sequel? And if a moderator deletes this then that means that moderators DO have favoritism on these boards which i have suspected for the longest time, so that would prove me right. If you saying Lucasarts just made some star wars sprites, then i have to say htat some helluva sprties cuz these graphics looks awesome and the game plays good too plus there's a lot of imagination here. Just ask anybody whether they play starcraft or TA. Plus it looks like you did a real good job to make yourself look like that ,"im the guy that's sensible and im a tough biker and i'll readily tell you your stupid" type role...good job. Yeah, Cavedog should just give up, and give the rights to somebody else. I seriously think Lucasarts could do a good job, look at what they did with the Genie engine!

[1MGxLeGion]

Well i gotta say like a year ago i bought a game pack 2 games for $10 it came with total anihalation and Warzone 2100 the first one i played was TA i played it once and thought it was a joke the graphics sucked and the game play was even worse. its a joke of a game. Than i played Warzone2100 and i gotta say this is one of the best RTS's ever made but it never sold alot and it didn't help that pumpkin studios went bankrupt. But if you ever get a chance to play it plz do you will love it you can make almost unlimited combination of military forces. you create what you want to make instead of have to make a premade unit in the game. but i gotta say SWGB is one of only a few games that have caught my full attention and make me keep coming back for more.

[1MGxLeGion]

Oh yeah and warzone2100 came with optional 3d graphics you could zoom right in on 1 unit if you wanted to and follow him through the terain or into the battle it was sweet the graphics were cool. actually seeing the units up close. you could even go 360 around them. i would love that option in SWGB i would to see sith and jedi zoomed in up close battleing it out.

[safire]

PhantomMenace - I didn't get your tough biker bit... explain.

 

Yes, Total Annihilation is older technology, put it up against the games of that day Age of Empires One, Dark Reign (required DOS to run, but really fun). Don't put it up against something designed in the last year. It's like saying Doom sucks compared to Quake III b/c the graphics blow. Well, duh... Total Annihilation has some stuff that no other RTS game did/can do. The physics engine with projectiles and such is superior to any RTS made to date. Can you see this while playing, yes, if you look for it. The air - better than any stupid hovering airplanes of all other RTS games. Was it stupid that each of the two forces were almost identical - yes, that was dumb.

 

LucasArts didn't exactly design swgb from the bottom-up. They bought the rights to the AoE II engine and developed on top of that. Was that smart, hell yeah. It was a proven game, fairly flexible with research/resources/economy/battles.... it was the best way to get swgb out on the shelves fastest. Don't get me wrong I play this game a lot. But to say that a game that's 4-5 years old should have been developed by LA is stupid. TA was one of the game of the year in its day. But then you 13 year olds can't remember that far back.

 

Basically lay off the stupidity of saying TA sucked b/c how in the hell can TA have won so many awards in it's day? Hmm, maybe b/c it doesn't suck and you are too ignorant to see the innovations that TA brought to the RTS game. Seriously, air that flies and has dogfights as opposed to the lame hovering units of swgb. Just lay it to rest...what's next. When the Jedi Knights game comes out you are going to say that Half Life should have been made by LucasArts too?

 

FYI -the graphics of TA is more sophisticated and 3D then the SWGB...

 

So, please, stop being lame... it seems like your post is just to draw attention and start a flame. And LucasArts hasn't been very sucessful in the RTS market - Force Commander and Rebellion.

 

You cannot get an accurate feel of a game, gameplay, etc from playing it once....

[1MGxLeGion]

Thx for reminding me warzone2100 also had planes that didn't hover they made attacks after one attack they had to swoop around for another attack they actually flew and had to come back to airports after so many attacks cause they were out of ammo and had to reload. there was many aa turrots to choose from and research man the research and units availible to choose from was amazing at times it never seemed to end. the artillery was awesome you could see it flyin through the air. but like i said this game was out about same time as TA but never go the recognition it deserve due to the fact pumpkin studios went under. this game could still compete with any RTS on the shelf today graphics wise and depth wise.

[Guest PhantomMenace]

See the problem here is that you got a lot of people who have only played 1 or 2 rst games it seems and are going nuts just becsause artillery looks real when it lobs stuff in total annihilation! You talk about physics, i say what are you talking about anyways? Can you even explain what you mean by physics? If the tanks come to an immediate stop when you tell them to stop then the game does not have true to life physics..that is physics of a game, the way every element of that game relates to what happens in real life; i.e. tanks having to accelerate and decellerate...missles, artilery being throw off accuaracy by changes in wind...if makes a neat little effect when you shoot an artillery round then that my friend is not physics! Here we go back to the hovering plane thing again... Does anyone here know that just like in starcraft, it was a toss up! Do you want full control over a unit or do you want to send em on a run? I'd say full control, but in the new game Empire Earth, you get both, you can send em on a run or, you can stop em and fly em around and they still strafe when they attack! That does not mean the AOK engine is incapable of this obviously duh! Why would it not be, how simple is it to just program a plane to go on a predefined course as soon as its built and attack a target or targets in its immediate area? THat would be cake but i personally wouldnt like that since AA turrets in this game own! Also look at it like this, modern planes all but a few are incapable of hovering...hovering is actually a feat of aviation for planes...Star Wars is set in the future, are you saying that in the future people think its better for a plane to be unable to move to a spot, stop, shoot and move again? You saying people in the future still think its cool, that you crash an expensive jet if you mistakenly get too low to the ground? Now yo go saying all the innovations that TA added to the RTS genre, but yet yo did not mention or list any? And before you go rattling em off in a response post be certain that that feature has not apperred somewhere before in another RTS that you might not have heard much about or even a turn based strategy game?

[Influenza]

PhantomMenace: you don't know what you're talking about. You're just spouting stupid drivel that has nothing to do with what safire and I are talking about.

 

If the tanks come to an immediate stop when you tell them to stop then the game does not have true to life physics..

No ****. This happens in SWGB, AoK, RA, SC, etc etc etc. It does not, however, happen in Total Annihilation. Thank you for proving one of my points; it makes my life easier.

That does not mean the AOK engine is incapable of this (referring to dogfighting aircraft)

I beg to differ. Flying units are enough of a hack as it is; I sincerely doubt LA could implement *real* aircraft with the AoK engine, without changing the source code.

 

And programming aircraft to do actual dogfights is quite a feat. You apparantly can't realize that. Sure, saying "move towards target and 50 feet beyond, then turn around and repeat" is real simple. But how about actual dogfights? Where planes are turning and weaving, trying to get into a position to fire upon the enemy? That, sir, is very complex and cool programming.

 

Star Wars is set in the future, are you saying that in the future people think its better for a plane to be unable to move to a spot, stop, shoot and move again?

First, this: A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... . But on a serious note: yes. Except for gunship-type units (which are supported by TA), it is advantageous for aircraft to keep moving while engaging the enemy. Otherwise you're a sitting duck. Think about it. Your chances of being hit by a missile tower which came in range only because you strafed a target are FAR SMALLER than the chance that you'll be hit by AA fire while sitting in mid-air.

Now yo go saying all the innovations that TA added to the RTS genre, but yet yo did not mention or list any? And before you go rattling em off in a response post be certain that that feature has not apperred somewhere before in another RTS that you might not have heard much about or even a turn based strategy game?

*Sigh* Go read the previous thread on AoK/SC/RA vs TA. You might learn quite a bit. And I guarantee that every single point you might think to bring up in 10000000 years will be countered in that thread. It's a pity more people don't read that thread before posting.

 

Jesus Christ, man, I'm sick of idiots blindly flaming Total Annihilation. Here you go, man. I dug up this link just for you, so you can stop pretending like everyone hates TA and that it was the worst game ever. http://www.gamespot.com/strategy/totalann/review.html . Go there and read. And learn.

[1MGxLeGion]

Well it was a pretty cheesie game even for its time :-/:fett:

[Influenza]

Yet another brilliantly-thought-out and developed post. Well done.

[1MGxLeGion]

Well i had a feeling from the begining no matter what was said someone would say what you just did, i could type a novel and have it well thought out but there would always be a DUDE like you that will say well here is another well thought out post. i am not trying to prove that TA was a cheesy game i am just saying it was in my opinion, just as i am sure there are people that still say pitfall for coleco vision is still the best game ever made its a matter of opinion and if you think this post is stupid about TA than best idea would to be not to respond to phantom menace because it makes this post that much more eveident.

[Silenthunter]

Hmm...Do I smell flame-broiled spam with bias on top? I mean, come on guys, can't we just accept each others opinions without flaming? Oh, no, I'm starting to sound like a mod!

[Guest PhantomMenace]

Well its obvious here that these guys are just going to arbitrarily make up a retort to anything i say whether they got some solid proof or not..this guy is jut taking choice pieces of what i say that he thinks he can safely attack while leaving strong part of my arguements out and making little comments about it...bottom line is he will find or it looks like make up something to go against anything i say about what looks to be the most overrated and underachieving game in the world total annihilation!

[Guest BountyHunter]

YAWN!

[Guest crd_polaris]

Every RTS has its own strengths and weaknesses. TA is a game that set right above my computer in a rack of over 10-20 RTS games. TA had good realistic unit behaviors but lacked in overall stategy and resourses. Age of the Empires engine was the best choice for LA because the engine was flexable enough to modify, and most important the AOK engine was better known then TA and Blizzard. I don't care what people say about SWGB, because this game is fun to play. I even play online and it runs smoothly. ON battlenet for SC it was always slow and everyone hacked. SWGB is the first game that combined my two favorite things. Starwars and RTS games. I've always wanted a Starwars RTS and was disappointed by force commander. This game is so cool. I can't believe some are *****ing about this game. Nothing bad about this game can't be fixed with a expansion pack with new units, new civilizations, campains, and more advanced AI. This is the AOE for people who like starwars instead of ancient and medieval themes.

[Warlord Zsinj]

Well its obvious here that these guys are just going to arbitrarily make up a retort to anything i say whether they got some solid proof or not..this guy is jut taking choice pieces of what i say that he thinks he can safely attack while leaving strong part of my arguements out and making little comments about it...bottom line is he will find or it looks like make up something to go against anything i say about what looks to be the most overrated and underachieving game in the world total annihilation!

 

There is a strong part to your argument? Please, explain it too me.

 

Now, you are the one who wants proof for our retorts to your pathetic drivel?

Check all of Influenza's posts in the last topic. They all contain, not only far more proof than any of your posts, but grammar, sensical sentence patterns, and a whole lot more common sense.

 

If you are such an avidly successful debater, please, show me some actual proof of some backing up your own arguments.

People are allowed to have opinons, but unless they can be successfully backed up with adequate evidence, it is best they kept those opinions to themselves.

I mean, please back up the following statement:

most overrated and underachieving game in the world total annihilation!

 

Why is it overrated? Are there any parts of our arguments in favour of Total Annihilation that you find untrue? Are there any sections which you disagree with due to factually based evidence?

And why is Total Annihilation an underachieving game? It has come from an unknown Company, by unknown people, to a market already flooded with the same type of genre games. Yet it still succeeds, and manages to set the benchmark for all of the RTS games to come. Yes, none of your favourite games would have been the same had Total Annihilation not been here, and as of yet, none of those games have managed to top TA in many of its strength areas too, despite having 5 years in which to do it!

 

Another example is when 'flu talks about how great the physics of the TA engine is, and backs it up with references to artillery shelling, wind and gravity having an effect on gameplay and how units are much more affected by their surroundings.

Then you say that just because it is a neat effect, it is not physics (not backing the statement up, as usual).

Physics defines the way in which we live. The way we react to certain things, such as coming into contact with anobject, or how our environment affects us. Physics will define how objects are effected given a situation. Despite Star Wars being in a galaxy far, far away, the laws of physics still apply. This is what makes star wars so real to us. We identify with certain characters, and situations. When a starfighter is hit by laser fire, it doesn't disappear, it blows up. This is physics. When the ATST walkers are toppled by the logs, that is physics. When a snowspeeder is downed on Hoth, it crashes to the ground, due completely to physics. The futuristic element remains, but everything which occurs in it is recognisable by viewers, and in turn is more easily processed by our brains. We don't sit there thinking "as if...", we sit there, simply assuming that there are ships the size of small moons, and planet cracking lasers, completely engulfed in the story. We are not thinking "come on, now, as if there are planet cracking lasers", we are thinking "They are about to destroy Alderaan!".

The physics of the movie allows as to accept such futuristic objects, as while they are still very technologically advanced, but are still bound by our laws of physics.

This makes it easier to be immersed in the film. It allows us to get by such things that plague other Sci-Fi films.

The Immersion is what we crave when we watch television, go to the movies and play games.

 

Total Annihilations powerful physics engine allows us to become immersed in it. We take for granted the fact that our artillery fire is affected by such things as gravity and wind, because we don't even think about it. We are thinking about what our next plan of action is. Whether to use that decoy assault now, to make the enemy worry and build defences there, ot whether to save it for later, when the true attack is in progress, to divert those enemy defenders from the true target. We are immersed in the game. By making the physics engine more realistic, our brain is able to accept the incoming data more readily, and thus interpret it better, adding to our immersion.

When my weapons hit something that is in the way, rather than immediately hitting the target, my brain does not dwell on the fact. I simply think of ways to get a better firing solution. When a bullet in SC or another RTS without a good physics engine goes through an object, to hit another object, I am immediately withdrawn from my immersion in the game. My brain realises that this is not physically ( ) possible, and I am immediately withdrawn from my immersion. When an arrow is shot at a gnomish flying machine in Warcraft, and it clearly misses, but the flying craft still takes damage, my immersion in the game is quickly withdrawn. I am no longer fighting evil orcs for the glory of Azeroth, I am playing some stupid game when I could be doing something better.

That is why a physics engine in a game is important.

-----------------------

On another note, I am curious as to why you started this topic. Is it because our recent intelligent defence of our game from your childish bashing has rocked your closed little world?

Is it that you have realised how bad the games you are playing really is? Have we alerted your brain to the inadequacies of your usual gaming preferences?

Maybe the only way that you can feel better about the games you play is to bag our game.

I believe that is why you started this thread, while there was already another thread on the exact same topic, and why you refuse to accept any of our intellectual evidence in support of our game, but rather continue to spout your obnoxious crap.

 

I believe it is known as an 'Inferiority Complex'.

From playing Inferior games.

 

Warlord Zsinj.

[Clefo]

I notice that everyone who Backs TA works on a mod or something for it, just noting something

 

Now I personally NEVER EVER IN A MILLION F'ING YEARS noticed anything "Different" about the "PHysics model" everything shooted the same to me on any planet!

 

Planes that fly around are Overrated!

 

So will both sides please stop spouting your bull---- decent people are trying to sleep

[Guest PhantomMenace]

Saying that TA set the benchmark for all other RTS games to and saying that if it wasnt for TA all these other games wouldnt exist is preposterous!!! Also looks like that guy went through a lot of trouble to sound intelligent which is a sure fire indicator that he's an idiot! Ok you all keep sucking up to TA..who cares about TA? Do the producers of TA even give a damn about this game anymore? Certainly not enough to go claiming that SWGB should have been made by them! You keep going into detail about all the little things the game has to offer but my question is does anybody care? Does anybody give a damn? Panzer General and STarg General has some cool little do dads, like requiring solid communications, ammo and fuel shortages and counters for just about every unit, i.e. aa turrest, mobile aa, mobile artillery, fixed artillery. Lots of neat stuff there but you know what, do i still play it, no because there's better stuff out there and besides if TA was so great then we should be seeing a TA 3 on slate for realease right about now dont you think? Also here you got Lucasarts that has decided they will use another game engine to make this game...they looked at all their options? Why didnt they choose TA? If all you guys claim your gonna whip together a cool mod on your own why couldnt an entire design team do it then? Maybe they didnt want to do it! Maybe they saw the TA engine and looked on past it? REality sucks, you dig through dictionaries for big words and you can point out that all the little tiny things but hte fact is that the game is made on the AOK engine and nobody else in their right mind has any plans to liscense out the TA engine, bottom line!

[Influenza]

You don't seem to have a very good grasp of how reality works. I'll give you a quick run-down.

 

Money rules everything. That's lesson number one. I think it's safe to say that a *big* reason why LA chose the AoK engine related to money. For starters, you can bet that they got the rights to the AoK engine pretty cheaply (relatively speaking). Last I heard, InfoGames was selling the rights to the TA and TA:K engines for something around 5 million US dollars. That's a LOT of money. I'll bet LA didn't really consider any engines besides AoK. They were looking from the beginning to make a solid game to generate lots of money, and the AoK engine gave them the path of least resistance towards that goal.

 

Lesson number two: time is money. Since LA was looking to make lots of money off this game (after the dismal failures of its past forays into SW RTS'), they had to choose an engine easy to modify. While TA is the epitomy of an easy-to-modify engine, it is rather time-consuming to do so. Lots of things you have to learn, not-the-least-of-which is the BOS scripting language. The AoK engine, on the other hand, is very straight-forward. It doesn't have very much complexity or depth to it; what you see is what you get. So it's easy to modify. And the designers aren't tempted to throw in lots of goodies, since the engine can't handle them anyways. All these things add up to less time, which implies more money.

 

StarCraft has sold bajillions of copies around the world. Does that mean it's the greatest game of all time? Hardly. I'm certain that every respectable game-reviewer will agree that TA is a better RTS than SC. SC just happens to be more accessible than TA. People get turned off by Total Annihilation because units don't talk to them when they're clicked on, because defenses can win games for you, and because the AI is pretty ****ty. And because it requires you to *think* as you play.

 

I'm withdrawing from this conversation. Flame me all you will. I have proven my points numerous times in this thread and *especially* the previous thread on TA vs AoK. Since you refuse to accept anything I say in response to your ranting, I give up. Ignorance, in this case, triumphs.

[SharkY]

I myself am a TA fan, yet I also own SWGBG and enjoy that. The fact Cavedog really wasnt who fueled the creation of TA, 'not TAK' should differ this argument completely. Chris Taylor the owner of Gas Powered Games is the one who should be a topic of discussion. The truth is the reason people say TA is greater is Chris Taylor was really the first one to make a easy to mod RTS...

However I dont beleive you can compare SWGBG to TA, you can however compare SWGBG to Sierra's EmpireEarth.

[Warlord Zsinj]

Well I haven't lost my patience yet. I wan't to prove this guy wrong, but hey, I barely need to bother. His such an idiot, he can do it himself!

 

Also looks like that guy went through a lot of trouble to sound intelligent which is a sure fire indicator that he's an idiot!

 

You poor fool. I almost feel sorry for you.

Hey - Does that mean that all the stupid crap that you have been writing means that you are really smart? I mean, its as if you are trying to sound stupid!

 

My claim that the RTS genre would not be what it is today without TA remains. You have yet too prove me wrong.

Oh, and plenty people give a damn about TA. Visit some fo the supersites, and you will see that for a game that is 5 years old, it has a remarkably large following. When, as you say, there are 'better games out there'. Like what? Nothing, so far, has offered me the same strategy, the same possibilities, and the same enjoyment that I got out of TA. Nothing. Point me too something that I might enjoy, and tell me why I would like it better then TA. Give me good reasons, not unfounded 'TA sucks', or 'noone in their right mind would play TA'. Please. I dare you.. Oh, and plenty of developers keep TA in a very high regard. Given that it is one of the best quality RTS's out there, but as 'flu pointed out, the AOE engine was the best one for LucasArts.

That does not mean it is the best one for Star Wars, but neither was Jar Jar the best for Star Wars. Jar Jar was the best thing for Lucasfilm, as he appealed to younger audiences.

 

What I am trying to say is that Financially, the AOE engine was the best option. It put many restrictions on the Star Wars universe, but if they had chosen TA, they wouldn't get it out in double the time it took too make SWGB, and it already has the large AOE II fan base.

If they had chosen TA, I am sure you would have had a better game (not the SWGB is bad though), as the SWTA team has already made a great game, and they aren't being paid nor are they working on it all the time.

 

Oh, and if you wan't to know about strategy, check out my post here, which is from the strategy section of http://www.tauniverse.com

 

EDIT: Fixed a bad link

[Heavyarms]

Well, other people would have made RTS's, like menace said. Never heard of Total annhiliation. AoK is better;TA, well, I never heard of it.

 

All of you guys, calm down. Respect each other's opinions. If they get offensive, tell a mod, don't keep the fire. It almost made me leave with such brash comments.

[Warlord Zsinj]

Thats just what I'm sick of. While you say it in good humour, many do not.

 

please, don't take offense, I am just trying to prove a point.

 

AoK is better; well, I never heard of it.

 

Now, I know you weren't trying to offend me, and no offense was taken, and I am simply using this as an example. Many people have come up with 'AoK is better' or 'TA sucks', and other such crap, but the truth is that most of them haven't even heard of them, or haven't played them properly (over the net) to make such claims.