Vsim

[7-7ighlander]

Ok, i wrote a huge post on this in school and as I pressed the "Submit new thread" button I got the server busy message and had to go to the next class. The post is all about VSIM though. If you don´t know what VSIM is, either try out DBTS, Die By The Sword, the first and only game that I know of to have incoprorated VSIM, or search for information OR ask a forum dweller who knows OR ask me tomorrow =)

What I want here is this though:

 

1) Do we want a VSIM mod for JKII?

 

2) Would it be possible to make one?

 

3) How should it work? i.e. what should different mouse buttons do, different blocking styles, extending arm or what?

 

Ill return tomorrow or later today and post my thoughts on the subject, until then feel free to post you´re thoughts on the subject.

[Necro]

i remember vsim!

 

oh the days...if you could develop it into ur now mouse + keyboard, i say yes.

[Valdarious]

I really wish those guys would do something again like Die By the Sword. That system was one of the best melee systems of its time I think. Keyboarders and mouse people alike could use it to advantages. I was keyboard/mouse user with VISM, 3rd person locked camera behind the head and it worked wonders.

[SPY_jmr1]

ok i'l bite, what the hell IS this thing anyway?

sounds like a old rpg/tps/fps, anyware close guys?

a faq for us new guys would be nice;)

[Kurgan]

In the game "Die By the Sword" (that was released some time ago, I think it was '98?) there were two fighting control modes (the game was a third person slasher medieval themed game).... one where you just hit one of several attack buttons to do different slashes, and the other was "VSIM" where you "swung" the mouse and wherever you moved, the sword swung.

 

So essentially...move mouse up, sword moves up, move mouse,sword moves down, move right, etc... and the faster you moved the mouse, the faster you swung. Movement was independant with the strafing and back/forth keys, etc.

 

I for one thought it was clumsy and hard to get used to (since you had to independantly manage your sword position and movement). The battles ended up having people just swinging the mouse around wildly (akin to just button mashing to win). This system did give you "virtual control" over your blade, and it was nothing like the proposed "glyph" system of Obi-Wan PC(though a similar glyph system was used in Black&White for stuff).

 

DBTS I thought was a good idea, just the implementation wasn't so hot. The later "Rune" was much better, IMHO, and it's combat system was as simple as JK's (without the secondary swing).

 

If people like this Vsim mode and want to make a mod, hey, go for it, but I'm personally glad they'll be sticking with something a little more "Traditional" (for lack of a better term) in this JK sequel.

 

IMHO if you really want a good example of a third person slasher game with a control system different from the JK series, check out Bushido Blade 2 for the PSX. Granted the battles in that game are a LOT slower than in JK, but they have a level of technique and finesse that I think some people are looking for.

[Valdarious]

Think of it this way, if you had the sword controled by your mouse, you could move your mouse to the right and your weapon would move with the mouse. If you moved your mouse to the left you could get alot of momentum and the sword would swing like a slash from the right to the left. Move your mouse up and your sword goes up, then move it down and you have a up and down slash. The moveing control was left up to your left hand on the keyboard, like most FPS's. You could do diagonal moves from upper right to lower left and so on, you had complete control of your sword if you put a lil time into it. I could see it being a lil akward for some people at first, it was for me to, till I got a feal for it. The game even came with a move editor that you make up complexed moves out of the game then bind them to keys so you could pull it off while in game. Heh, plus the Avatar in the game was just plain hilarious, kind of like a mix between Ash from Evil dead and Duke Nukem.

[7-7ighlander]

Thanks to Kurgan (Kurgan from DoD forums?) and Valdarious for explaining this, I´m sorry but I had explained it in my first post, "the one that got away" =).

 

I´ve wanted VSIM with a lightsaber for a long time, mainly because one of the big problems with VSIM (Mouse) in DBTS was how hard it was to do any damage so most people used the keypad number keys for VSIM. A sword of light would change the damage problem =)

 

I also wonder how to implement this into a mouse+keyboard config, thereof q #3. One way would of course be using the keyboard to turn, something that I am sure would anger people. Then again, perhaps the mouse buttons would turn now that they aren´t used for attacking? Or the mouse wheel that most of us have?

 

Also, Kurgan, I played Rune and still play Rune a lot. However, I was never 100% satisfied with the combat system. I want more skill involved.

 

Valdarious, good thing you replied or we´d have a long discussion on wether or not it is possible to control the sword at all after Kurgans post =)

 

I´d like to see a mod which would enhance saber combat with options such as holding the saber in a blocking position, changing how far the arm is extended and such. Autoblocking laser shots and other sabers should be disabled in this mod imho.

 

I´d like to see this mod as a small file servers and players download and as players join a server with this mod they can elect wether to fight like normal or use the mods new system.

 

It could become a pretty big mod if it was done right.

 

Problem is, I know nothing of programming (Ok Ok I program games on my calculator but hey =)) nor animating nor anything else.

 

We need a mod team! Which gives me the idea to head for the modding forum and post a thread there linking to this.

 

//EDIT// Thou shalt not mention psx games here or I shalt smite thee! //EDIT//

 

Oh yeah, watch yerself Kurg, THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE

[SPY_jmr1]

cool thx guys. if you thin kthis makes a good mod, go nuts. myself i am going for a more 'standard' type of fighting(jk1/every other game i have ever heard of;) )

might be fun IF DONE RIGHT.

 

hope we can switch betwine mods as easy as we can in patch commander (jkpc 2 anybody?)

[bsbuckeye21]

I just tried the DBTS demo and I didn't like the VSIM control as much as I thought I would. It was such a chore and not intuitive at all. It was like if I, a native English speaker, had to "control the game in Spainish" where I had to think about what everything would do before I did it. It wasn't second nature at all. (Did that make any sense? )

 

Anyway, it just left me longing for a Rune or JK type of fast control.

[7-7ighlander]

well, as valdarious stated, if you give it time it will grow on you.

what can I do but agree?

 

Also, dbts VSIM suxorz my boxorz compared to what I think we could implement implement in JKII (perhaps even remove the "waving flies away" effect ).

 

I really cant think of a way to make saber combat better than with some kind of VSIM control and I think it would be cool to see a fight where both duelants can control their saber to 100%, blocking laser bolts with the mouse and all.

 

Sad thing is that even though I see lots of "I dont like the arcadish saber combat based more on timing than skill", we only have 10 votes so far.. Few ppl visit the swamps it would seem.

 

bsbuckeye21, the limitations of a game like Rune, jk and probably (Well, it hasn´t been released yet has it? Maybe the mod isn´t needed!) jkii is that even though there are some moves, they are far from enough OR the control is so lacking that you almost never use 50% of the animations.

 

Yes, i´ve read the numbers on new frames and new animations but given the fact that every swing is made in three different ways because of the different stances, who knows maybe such a thing as the 10 or so animations for blaster blocking are made in three different ways as well? It is also possible they are "spicing up the facts" by including some movment animations in that number.

 

Again, the game could turn out to have great saber combat despite what some videos claim and if then, all is fine.

If not, I and many more want this mod.

[bsbuckeye21]

well, as valdarious stated, if you give it time it will grow on you.

 

Well, as bsbuckeye21 played, it wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

 

On paper, VSIM is great. I don't think DBTS got it down though. First off, are you really gonna give up the ability to quickly look around at all times? That was really annoying, even for a game like DBTS where everything was mostly monoplaner.

 

Also what really screwed me over is that there wasn't a Y axis invert option!

 

What would have worked better, IMO, is if you didn't have to follow through the move the whole way. Rather, hold down mouse button 2, and then the mouse no longer looks for you but the camera is fixated on in-range enemies, and then just wipe it to the side quick and the sword will swing as fast as possible in that direction. When mb2 is realeased, you many look around again, and still do regular JK style moves with mouse button 1.

[7-7ighlander]

yeah thats a good idea imho.

Im not looking for a djbktisi (), just more control of the saber. I just read 3 stances and 8 attacks for each somewhere and that doesnt sound like that much control. Still, we´ll have to wait for the release to be certain.

 

Id like an option to handle your own blocking tho so the non-follow through doesn´t work for everything even tho I think its a great idea that should be explored.

 

Nice to see another wise man who plays with invert y =)

 

DBTS mouse vsim actually was playable if you practised A LOT, I saw some players very adept at it when playing online but I do not love the vsim in dbts.