Performance

[GreyWing]

I've got the same problem. I'm on the mining level now and the FPS is dipping below 20 outdoors.

 

My System:

ECS K7S5A (SiS) Mainboard (Latest AGP/RTD upgrades)

AMD Athlon XP 1600+

384MB of PC133 SDRAM

VisionTek GeForce3 Ti200 (Detonator4: 27.70, 27.42, 23.11, 21.83)

SoundBlaster Audigy Gamer (Latest drivers)

5400RPM UltraATA 100 Maxtor HD (DMA enabled)

 

I actually wouldn't mind if it slowed down every once in a while. . . but it's very frustrating knowing that something is screwy under the hood that is causing your hardware not to perform optimally for the vast majority of the time.

 

Well said man, well said. That's EXACTLY how I feel about this and many other games (C&C Renegade, Deus Ex, etc. etc.). It's funny how when you pick up a box for a shiny new video card in the store how it's laced with dozens of features from end to end, then when you bring it home you seen a small improvement if any at all. I wonder if there are or will ever be any games that fully utilize the hardware of a good video card. It seems like such a waste.

[Hurin]

I just got off my lazy a$$ and sent this to LucasArts via the Yoda Helpdesk:

 

------------

 

Hi there,

 

There seems to be a widespread problem with the performance of Jedi Outcast that cannot be simply attributed to users setting the video/performance options too high.

 

I'm going to use the term "we" below because quite a few of us on the lucasforums.com site have noticed this odd behavior.

 

I hate to jump to conclusions, but it's apparently a bug in the game because, for a while, everything runs *great*. . . we're getting 70-90 frames-per-second (fps). . . but as soon as we load a quicksave, the performance drops to 40-50fps (and as low as 20fps in outdoor areas).

 

Now, if the game were always slow, I'd assume that it was something wrong with my computer. But because a somewhat routine and normally trouble-free action causes the performance hit, it would seem to be a problem with the software itself.

 

I noticed this most prominently on the level where I am fighting AT-STs while trying to destroy the ion cannons (while the prisoners wait for pickup).

 

Some say that using the light-amplification goggles often brings frame rates back up (two or three times, then this fix stops functioning until the game is fully exited and restarting). Others use the scope in a similar fashion. Again, not to be pushy, but does this odd behavior not point to a pretty severe performance-sapping bug? I mean, why would loading a saved game cause this behavior. . . and perhaps more importantly, why would momentarily looking through a weapon's scope fix it?

 

Anyways, there are at least three posts on the lucasforums about this issue with multiple people reporting it. And, unfortunately, there are probably a lot more people who don't realize the *source* of the slow-down, and just assume that the game is more technically demanding than it actually is. (not that the game isn't beautiful and incredibly good! It is! But we want to experience it in all the glory that our hardware is apparently able to provide. . . were it not for this bug).

 

Here are two threads on the lucasarts forums, please take a look!

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35985

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37684

 

There are a *lot* of posts there from various users with all sorts of different graphics cards (though I think all those reporting this problem have the titanium version of the GeForce 3 & 4). I'm sure you guys could get a lot more info form those threads directly than I am able to provide here. It would be great if you could browse on over there.

 

Might this problem also have something to do with the reports of there being little-to-no difference in FPS for those with powerful systems who try everything between 640x480 to 1600x1200. . . and the framerates don't change by more than 5-10fps? Just hoping. . . cuz that has been somewhat frustrating as well.

 

My System Configuration:

 

(All drivers were downloaded today prior to machine wipe. . . so all should be newest except the NVidia ones which I purposefully left at v23.11)

 

P4 2Ghz (Northwood)

Asus P4B266-C Motherboard (newest Intel Chipset Drivers)

512 MB DDR RAM (Corsair 2400)

GF3 ti500 (Detonator Driver v23.11. Hercules Brand.)

SB Live X-Gamer (non-5.1) (Driver v3509.2.0.0 --Newest--)

Adaptec 29160N SCSI Controller

Quantum Atlas 10K III 18GB

Plextor UltraPlex 40

Yamaha 4x2x16x CDRW

3Com 3C905C-TX Network Card

DirectX 8.1 freshly downloaded from WindowsUpdate.

 

I hope you will pass this email on to those who can fully investigate it. Personally, I've given up on the game and am really anxious to have a fix so that I can play it (with optimal performance). This really is an incredible game!

 

Please let me know if you are aware of this issue, and if so, is there any fix in sight?

 

Thanks!

 

Brian

[ritchiediaz]

I have a slightly different problem...

 

I have P3 1G, with 512 Ram, Geforce 2MX and Win2k, sblive..

 

performance is great...no slow down yet at all, but very slow load times...

 

however, I'm certain that the game is running at 640*480, even though I've changed it to 1024*768 in the settings...

 

I've taken screens from different resolutions, and they are the same...every other game (RTCW etc) when you up the res, the HUD shrinks...not JK2...

 

I've e-mailed support, but get the usual change drivers story...

 

What is strange though, is that when I got to the console and check my mode...( r_mode), it returns 6, which SHOULD be 1024*768, but it certainly don't look like it...

 

Any ideas?

 

Ritchie

[Pyronious]

I was experiencing very choppy gameplay as well, even though my frame rate counter was hovering around 100fps. For some reason it just wasn't smooth.

 

Two things seemed to have worked for me. First of all, I turned the texture filtering to "Bilinear" instead of "Trilinear". Also I turned "Video Sync" to "on". All of a sudden I had SILKY SMOOTH gameplay! Although my FPS was now reading 60.

 

Now normally I find that turning on Video Sync slows things down, but in this game it seems to have the exact opposite effect, at least for me.

 

Anyway, give these two settings a shot and see if it improves things for you. Despite the lower frame rate in the counter, the gameplay seems MUCH smoother to me.

 

My System:

 

Athlon 1.4 GHz

512 MB RAM

Geforce3 64MB

Detonator 23.11 drivers (recommend by LucasArts instead of the most recent).

[MajBlunder]

Hi,

 

after reading this thread thinkin I might find a tip or two about increasing performance, i found something that seemed strange, everyone that posted something here about a severe slowdown after loading a quicksave had a GF video card.

Well I have a Radeon8500 and dont have these 'slowdowns' after using F9.(which happens quite alot..hehe)

I am having slowdowns in outside areas, and somtimes in large fights, but this seems to be common.

(SP settings)

High geometry

High textures

1280x1024

32 bit colors and textures

billinear

ansiotropic on (also enabled on hardware 16x)

Shadows set to simple

 

Unless we get some other Radeon users to confirm this, based on just my report, it seems this only effects GF users. So maybe its a driver issue?

 

My problem lies with the MP, the same video settings i use in SP cause very low fps in MP.

So far the only thing that has worked is turning textures to low(yuk) and geometry to med(yuk) and turning off ansio, both ingame and in hardware.

Changing resolutions doesnt effect my FPS, im playing at 1600x1200 and get same as 640x480.

Using these settings i can stay above 35fps on all the MP maps

Using SP settings it would run in the low to mid 20s.

 

(sys specs)

 

TB 1.2gig

512meg pc150 sdram

SbLive 5.1 gamer

Radeon 8500 (using 9021 drivers)

DX8.1

Win98se

Via 4/1 4.38

 

 

 

Hope we can find a resolution to these problems.

 

MajBlunder

[WhiteChedda]

Originally posted by Hurin

I just posted a similar thread at:

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36952

 

I'm seeing no real difference in framerates no matter whether I'm running at 640x480 or 1600x1200. It's always 60fps, give or take 10fps. (this is during the timedemo benchmark. See http://www.hardocp.com for instructions on running the benchmark).

 

Anyways, during SP, at 1280x1024, most of the game is fine. . . and FPS hovers between 40-70fps most of the time. However, in large outdoor scenes, it drops to 25-30 quite often.

 

My setup is as follows:

 

Windows XP Pro

Pentium 4 2Ghz (Northwood)

Asus P4B266-C Motherboard

512MB DDR RAM

Geforce 3 ti500

Sound Blaster Live

 

Just thought this info might help. You might also check out my other thread.

 

Best Regards,

 

Hurin

 

You need to set opengl vsync option to ALWAYS OFF and that will stop. I should clarify here, in the video card driver options, under opengl, not game options.

 

To the rest of you, if you are unhappy with performance and you have a system with an extra GB or 2 of HD space to spare, listen up. This is an old jedi trick, I mean quaker trick.

 

Locate the install path and the base sub folder under it, notice there are 2 pk3 files. These are Winzipped files. Using winzip, unzip them into the base subfolder, but make sure you specify to use folder info. this will create a butload of folders and files on your system [thats why I said a GB or 2 to spare]. Once extracted, move those two files from the base path [i suggest the Lucasarts folder for easy locating if needed later]. What this does is eliminates the need for the engine to decompress files from the zip archine when needed. you should keep the archines because in my expereince, you may need them in that path for patches, but if you leave them in the base folder, the engine will ignore the extracted files, so you have to move them. renaming them does not seem to work either, not sure why, tried adding an l to the beginning and changing ext to pk33, still picked them up. I know because I modified a menu file so I could see if it was working and I did not get the error expected intil I moved them. it was the same way with Q3 so I expected this, but I always check.

 

One more worthwhile sideeffect of this is load times are quicker because your not uncompresing the files needed during level load.

[SlitherSly]

Ok, this sounds like an interesting trick to try out, but how would I select use folder info?

[Hurin]

Whitechedda,

 

Thanks for the idea. . . but it ain't vsynch. I have it turned off in both the game, and in the advanced properties of the video card. Oh, and since my refresh rate is set to 85, wouldn't the fps hover at 85 if that were the problem?

 

Sorry to sound like a smart-ass. . .

 

But, I mean, after all I've posted, do I really sound like that much of a rookie!?! Heh.

 

Hurin

[DeM@rco]

Hey guys,

 

I had not much time to hit the froums lately, and in my sparetime I was playing a bit JO. Since I try to avoid dying as hell now, it adds a more realistic feeling to the game, maybe that was their intention for some of us GeForce users

 

@Hurin

Very nice E-Mail U send to them, I am quite sure, that they are aware of our problem now. You pointed out all the things they need to know, so the only thing left for them, is to fix that darn bug.

I only hope this bug doesn´t slip into SOF 2 somehow

 

Bye,

 

Marco

[WhiteChedda]

Originally posted by Hurin

Whitechedda,

 

Thanks for the idea. . . but it ain't vsynch. I have it turned off in both the game, and in the advanced properties of the video card. Oh, and since my refresh rate is set to 85, wouldn't the fps hover at 85 if that were the problem?

 

Sorry to sound like a smart-ass. . .

 

But, I mean, after all I've posted, do I really sound like that much of a rookie!?! Heh.

 

Hurin

 

Well 2 reasons, one you'd be surprised at the number of people [some of them very good at tweaking computers, overclocking, etc..] not even aware there are opengl settings in nvidia drivers.

2. Setting it to off by default does not get the job done, a lot of people think thats turning it off, but it MUST be ALWAYS OFF.

 

If you are sure your running at 85hz when you run the game, then yes 85FPS should be where it hovers, however note that the new nvidia drivers [the latest ones] seem to have an issue with this, and in that case if you run XP or W2k, go check for the modified version at 3dgpu.com, if you run w/ 9x reinstall your display adapter [and do the correct one] to fix the issue.

[WhiteChedda]

Originally posted by SlitherSly

Ok, this sounds like an interesting trick to try out, but how would I select use folder info?

 

Open up winzip [the program don't use the extract to menu in explorer] open the archives ans click the extract button [forgot to mention I use the winzip classic interfce, if your a winzip wizard user, can't help you....]. It will prompt you for the path and on the lower left there are a few chck boxes, one is use folder info/names or something like that, check that box and proceed.

[SkyLightWalker]

Original Message From Glycerine

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on a P4 1.9 with 512MB and a GeForce 3 I should be able to turn all the detail options to max at 1280x1024 and still get super smooth framerates...right? I bumped it down to 1024x768 and it runs smooth most of the time, only slowing down in certain areas. (The moving bridge, and barred doorway in the Jedi Test level to be exact...)

 

Are you insane? Why is everyone so obessed with running the game at ridiculous settings and then complain when it doesn't work. Just turn them down. its recmmended that you don't play above 1024x768 (even 800x600 if possible).

 

I have an AMD600MHz, 256Mb RAM and an PCI ATI Rage grpahics accelerator. I run the SP in 640x480, 16-bit colours and textures, High geometric detail, and medium texture detail. I also have sound on low quality, but I do have dynamic lighting and wall marks on.

 

The loading times are reasonable (less than 30secs) and the game runs perfectly. Admittedly the mining level was a bit slow outside, but nothing has been unplayable.

 

I can't understand all you ppl with super computers - ESPECIALLY when mine plays fine, and looks GREAT!

[SkyLightWalker]

Original Message from WhiteChedda

To the rest of you, if you are unhappy with performance and you have a system with an extra GB or 2 of HD space to spare, listen up. This is an old jedi trick, I mean quaker trick.

 

I have an old jedi trick (I mean, "some-guy-who-can't-afford-the latest-hardware) too: TURN DOWN YOUR SETTINGS.

 

Even if you CAN afford all the new hardward you could carry - if its not working quite as you want, stop complaining and just ease up on the options - its not *that* hard, really its not.

 

Now my Deathstar is gonna blow all your rich-boy equipment to ****:

 

ZZZAP!

 

HAHA! NOW complain!

[Hurin]

SkyLightWalker,

 

Thanks for your *opinion*. . . but well. . .

 

First, some of us are concerned about a *bug*. Again, I wouldn't mind so much if the game were just so technically demanding that it made my machine behave like a 286. . . but the fact that there is apparently a *bug* that makes this game slow down only after a certain (normally harmless) action is carried out, shows that there is something *wrong* with the game and we are not getting the visuals, performance, or experience that we expected, want, and paid for (both for the game, and our hardware).

 

Second, even if there were no bug, I don't begrudge you your preference for playing a game at 640x480. Please don't begrudge me my preference for higher resolutions and better visuals. Personally, in my humble opinion, there is just no comparison between JKII at 640x480 and at 1280x1024. I've seen both, and I'd rather not even play the former. That's my opinion. . . just because you don't agree doesn't mean we shouldn't be here asking LucasArts/Raven if there is anything to be done about the bug, or for "poor" performance in general.

 

I know tons of people who think I'm crazy because I bought so much home theater equipment. They are happy with watching a movie un-letterboxed on a tiny little TV with tinny sound. I can't do that. . . I hate doing that. But, I don't give them a hard time about it. . . and they don't suddenly accost me about how much I spent on my TV (much). It's the same sorta deal here.

 

It seems we've reached that unavoidable part of the thread where there is nothing useful left to say. . . where we wait for a response from LucasArts. . . and watch as bored adolescents come in, spout their (completely unhelpful, but very self-righteous) opions, and then move on. . .

 

Can we please keep things productive here? Thank you, please drive through. . .

 

Hurin

[Mcloud]

trouble getting into this forum, busy

 

im also getting slow performance

 

AMD 1.3ghz on via/msi k7t266 pro mobo

512mb ddr ram

elsa g920 geforce3 64mb, 28.3 det4 drivers (will try 23.5)

win 98

 

i run it at 1024 32bit, with full geometry/detail settings, with bilinear and 16 bit textures, full lighting and shadows (vital for the atmosphere)

in heavy areas i have to set shadows to simple

 

seems more about the refresh rate, i get no big frame rate pauses, but slight variations in fps and a constant "blurred" effect without big differences between settings/resolutions (volumetric shadows seems the biggest variation tho)

 

i can run wolfenstein and max payne at much higher settings and it remains silky smooth

 

glad theres a few of us with complaints, it might get fixed as its really an awesome game in parts

 

 

re: skylightwalker - hurins right (tho turin was mghtier )

u dont buy a ferrari and drive it at 30mph

[BlacKnight]

I didn't have time to read the whole thread but this sounds like a problem I had. here is where I found the fix for it hope this helps

http://www.nvnews.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12941

[Hurin]

I scouted out that thread over at nvnews. Essentially, the fix for BlackKnight's problem was to download the drivers for his motherboard. He had reformatted his machine and had not yet installed the Intel drivers for his 850 chipset motherboard. Of course, VIA chipset people will need to download the newest 4-in-1 drivers instead.

 

Well. . . anyways. . . I posted a quick summary of what we're noticing over there. Maybe someone will have some ideas.

 

I still haven't gotten a response from LucasArts. Maybe that's actually a good sign. Maybe they're researching it rather than just chalking it up to having vsynch on. . . having the settings too high. . . or not having proper drivers.

 

Thanks everyone for your input. It's good to rule out stuff. . .

 

Best Regards,

 

Hurin

[Guest Sarcastic Saint]

Ok now this is odd....i have a 466Mhz 128Ram and Gf2MX 32DDR

And the game runs fine...on 1024 32bit, settings on medium, which still looks pretty great.

And other settings like anositropic filtering i left it on...dont know what framerates i'm getting havent tested that yet but it runs pretty smooth, very smooth in fact....except ofcourse in certain areas in certain outdoor maps....but everybody seems to have that same problem.

 

So yeah it must be a bug...oh and loading times are under 30sec if i start a new level and quickloading is 10sec or less and i don't seem to have that "fps-drop-after-Qloading" problem.

 

So far i've encountered only 1 bug, that when i wanted to exit the game it kept hanging on the menu screen...so i didnt get to see the desktop....but that happened only once...so far.

 

specs:

 

466Mhz

128Ram

Geforce2 Mx 32DDR (drivers; 12.90)-from Creative Labs

win98SE

Dx8.0a

 

Hope that in some way this helps...for reference sake and all...Man i feel really sorry for those who cant play the game....Raven should really start replying...like that they're working on a patch or something and give a little hope to those poor unfortunate gamers.

[Mcloud]

been messing about a bit more on single player, tried the 23.11 drivers as opposed to the 28.3 and saw no difference

 

using the "com_maxfps" command to 150 the game will remain at +100fps (was 80fps before) through most scenes unless it gets really hectic (i.e luke and kyle vs 5 reborn) where it can drop to 60 or so

 

this is with 1024 32bit, full geometry + detail with bilinear and 16bit texture colour and volumetric shadows TURNED OFF

 

switch ON the shadows and it will drop to around 60fps on average and 25 when theres alot of action

 

interestingly im using the increased dismemberment commands

and see little or no detriment to performance, i would have thought this would affect it alot when theres 30 bodyparts being force pushed around

 

i know volumetric shadows are intensive but just dont think they should lower performance by this much

[WhiteChedda]

Originally posted by SkyLightWalker

 

I have an old jedi trick (I mean, "some-guy-who-can't-afford-the latest-hardware) too: TURN DOWN YOUR SETTINGS.

 

Even if you CAN afford all the new hardward you could carry - if its not working quite as you want, stop complaining and just ease up on the options - its not *that* hard, really its not.

 

Now my Deathstar is gonna blow all your rich-boy equipment to ****:

 

ZZZAP!

 

HAHA! NOW complain!

 

Skywalker, I have been thrilled with 3D graphics since I first saw doom. Even though it wasn't true 3D graphics. I have learned that part of 3D graphics is performance, and its an important part, another part is reaslism, or rather getting closer to it.

 

Turning off effects is NOT getting closer to it. Yes, it make the game playable [well sometimes, I never managed to get UT playable], but eye candy is PART of any 3D game experience, otherwise we'd all still be playing games on a 2.5D 320x200 resolution,256 color engine that was badly pixelated, had you hovering about 2 feet off of the ground, and didn't even know what physics were.

 

If you're happy with your frame rate, smile, sit back, and let us compu-game geeks do our thing for our frame rate, thank you, and may the force be with you.

[Mcloud]

just had another play around,

 

60fps should still be perfectly playable and it is, but my problem seems to stem more from a texture refresh rate problem, even at 150fps (at any resolution) i still get this mild flicker effect as you move the mouse that can strain eyes after a while, almost as if the textures are moving slightly then readjusting, never experienced this with other games

 

ive messed around with the vsync and my screen refresh rate already

 

raven says theyve doubled the polygon count on jd2 compared to q3, but my RTCW ran perfectly

 

weird

[Chiles4]

Just wanted to add to the theory that it may be a "GeForce" problem.

 

My system:

1.2G Tbird

512MB DDR

IBM 60GXP 7200rpm HDD

Kyro 2 (Hercules)

Windows 98SE

DirectX 8.0a

 

Running JO with:

Anisotropic OFF

Detail High

Textures 32-bit

Res. 12x10x32

Shadows Simple

 

As you can see the only compromises I've made are the Anisotropic and the Shadows. I have consistently gotten good performance on JO with my rig. I'm currently playing at 12x10x32 and getting avg fps of 50-60 but dipping to 28 in the "worst" oudoor views. I find the game to be very playable without any problems.

 

At first I thought that XP users were getting the bad performance but I guess there are Win98 users suffering as well. Honestly, I've never used quickload - I always go back to the main menu. But I do HATE the load menu - It makes me feel like a drunk trying to play darts.

[Traidur]

I'd just like to chime in here and say I've had the same problem with the player saved loading. I've noticed it's not just quicksaves but any player saved game (it doesn't do it with the autosaves however). I also have a GeForce. The wierd thing is, I've experienced this once in multiplayer, anyone else? I played a duel level (hardly a strain for a GeForce 3!) and the fps was crap. I reloaded it and huzzah, normal fps. I've only seen this once and it doesn't seem consistant with the loading problem, maybe it was just a one time thing, hopefully.

[Hurin]

Hey all,

 

I posted this to the other thread entitled "loading quicksave = LAG" as well.

 

Now, let's be clear. . . this post is in regard to the problem where loading quicksaves suddenly makes your FPS performance drop by half (more-or-less). This isn't about the more general quirky performance, etc. Well. . .

 

I think I have a solution/cause!!!

 

Could you guys please test this?

 

It occured to me. . . when do you normally load a quicksave?. . . after you die, right?

 

And, what often happens when you die? The game enters "slow-motion" mode to show Kyle getting his ass kicked Matrix-style.

 

So. . . it occured to me. . . the game is artificially slowing itself down. . . what if it is forgetting to throw the switch and speed itself back up once you load the quicksave? Or, perhaps we're jumping the gun and loading the quicksave before the game would normally throw the switch (at the end of the slomo death scene).

 

Anyways. . . to test it, I turned off slow-motion deaths in the options menu. I was then able to load quicksaves on the AT-ST/Ion cannon levels without any slow-down at all. I was running between 60-90fps the entire time.

 

This would also explain why some people have said that they don't suffer the problem when they load checkpoints. . . and why we don't normally see the problem when we restart the game. You have to have *died* (and perhaps gone to load a game before the slo-mo death animation finishes) to see the problem. Of course, this is a theory, but my testing seems to help my case.

 

Why don't you guys give it a try and let me know if it removes the quicksave performance problem as well.

 

Thanks!

 

Hurin

[Hurin]

Hmmm. . . well. . . it was a good try. After playing about an hour, the quickload FPS-hit struck again.

 

Oh well. . . back to the drawing board. . .

 

Hurin