Force Drain in duels and in general

[jedialphaknight]

Ok, here is wut I have noticed, after extensive playing I realised an unfairness, all the force powers had counter-acts EXCEPT for drain. See drain does 2 things, take your force and heals them. I have a prob with that. When dueling, I would be fighting someone, now I am light for instance right? they have drain, I get hit pretty hard down too 20, he is down to 40, now I should heal right? wrong, the person will take all my force, that is fine with me, BUT NOW HE HEALS? ok...........?? now..how is that fair? some of you might say "then be dark and drain too" well see then NOBODY wins there..your both draining, and sorry, some people like to be light. Then you say, well use absorb, do you know how long that lasts? not long really like 30 seconds, then it goes away and takes a while to go back, and by then the person is draining you every chance they get. Then you might say, well use absorb in moderation, well yeah you can drain someone from a distance, so if you turn it off then can surprise you and drain you then what?

 

Here is what I think should be done

• Make Force Drain, just take away force.
  
• Or, if you don't want to, then make force absorb GET force from them using drain.
  

 

Please tell me what you guys think about this.

 

Also, Raven, you should put in something for multiplayer (even tho you can do this with a dedicated server) you should make it easy to put neutral powers only in the game so you can get your basic force powers without having to deal with light and dark powers in the duel. Just a suggestion.

[Desslock]

Absorb counters Drain...

[Bowen]

Either take the healing properties away from Force Drain or say, if you use Drain, then you can't use if again for awhile like the time it takes to use Absorb if you are a Lightsider.

[CrAZy]

The combo I see most often that you can't counter is.

1) They use force drain

2) Immeadiatly after they use grip

3) Repeate until enemy is dead

 

What can you do then? You can't pull, push or even throw your saber. How do you get out of grip without any force of your own?

[jedialphaknight]

What does drain do, TWO things, it TAKES force, and heals them sorry that isn't so fair specially in duels, lets make it easy and just have it take away their force.

[Elenkis]

>>What can you do then? You can't pull, push or even throw your saber. How do you get out of grip without any force of your own?<<

 

How about you use those things to stop the Drain instead. What do you people do, stand there while they cast Drain at you? When someone casts Drain at me I immediately force Pull them to me and slash them to pieces with my saber, or force Push and knock them flying off their feet. They are COMPLETELY defenseless when using Drain, so even rushing them with Speed or Jump works fine - once you're next to them they have to stop using Drain or they die (you should have enough time to do it before they drain all force).

[Darksider]

spend that force so theyve got nothing to drain away! when drain starts its the perfect time to slam on something like speed and or sight , get an adantage i mean youre gonna lose that force anyway may as well be useful to you

[ChronoWarrior]

I've never had a problem with that attack. When he does it I just back off and wait for my force to regenerate then heal myself. I've never actually died because of it.

[Spraypaint]

I'd say, make drain use your force really fast. Right now you can drain for a long time and you can still have half your force left. Drain should use up force pretty fast so that you could only drain maybe 60-70% of your target's force pool before running out of force yourself. This way, in the middle of a duel, where both of your forces are a little low, then he wouldn't be able to use it effectively because it would cost him a lot of force too.

[CrAZy]

Maybe it's working different for you guys, or maybe I'm just lame, but they usually use drain lvl3 that spreads out in a fan. I usually have maybe 1/2 to 1/4 my force, and if even the tinest corner touches me all my force is gone in less than a second. quicker than I can hit a hotkey. Then like I said it's drain, grip, repeate.

[DannyJAllTheWay]

I noticed the drain issue too. I agree that drain should only do one or the other, preferably it should only take away their force. it is kinda unfair that it does two things. one thing about drain though, it is sometimes hard to determine how much life you will be receiving when you use it, the healing varied. on the other hand, the light side force heal, if all the way up, will revive you in two uses no matter what. that is all that it does though. I mean with drain, you may only gain a little health with each use, but you still drain their force. it should still only serve one purpose. you still can counter it with the absorb. I haven't really been light side so much so I don't know how much it works against it though. I also agree that the duels should just have the basic force powers. this would eliminate a lot of the hassle and it would leave it more up to the players to show some actual skill and not just their relying on their force powers. I would like to see my being able to use push/pull while the other person has absorb on. maybe that's just me though.

[Sartis]

Drain isn't over powered, I mean come on you cant drain a Absorbed jedi, yet it does two things, it protects you from force and gives you force for it. Lets nerf that too. Come on really there are ways to counteract stuff but you have to look for them, if your getting gripped and have no force use your blaster to shoot you can't block while gripping.

 

Sure drain may take too much force per 'wave', but then again I think Absorb is too powerful too. But if you really want to get into the debate why does Drain do two things, remember Absorb does two things alos if you want something downgraded to one thing be prepared for the other to be too.

[Point2Jedi]

In every game there is something wrong. I noticed people complained about the unfair force(s) in the orginal Jedi Knight 2. It is a legit force power. Wouldn't be fun for someone to figure out another force to counter-attack it? All you can do is hope for the patch to solve this problem. Instead of everyone complaining that drain is stupid etc etc find another game or counter-attack it. alphaknight that sounds like a good idea with the drain. Maybe you should tell Lucus Arts your idea. Maybe they will listen. This is just my two cents.

- Point2Jedi

[CaptainPOE]

Yes drain is way to powerful. Asborb CAN counter it but any dark sider with half a brain won't drain someone who is using asborb, they will wait till it goes down and THEN drain. Therefore counteracting the only counter drain has. As of right now there are no penalties for using drain. After playing the light side I have came to the conclusion that it sould keep its healing abilites but there should be somethings changed. First off mandatory 3 to 5 second cool down before using drain again (5 for lvl 1, 4 for lvl 2, 3 for lvl 3). Then while using drain you should move at 50%-75% slower (50% for lvl 1, 63% for lvl 2, and 75% for lvl 3). This will make it so they won't be constantly at your back denying you the ability to recharge any force at all. It will be more of a close range weapon. I would really like to see how these changes would really impact the game, if someone could possibly make a mod of it even to see would be great.

[Nall]

Absorb CAN counter it, but you have to look at it at a bigger view. Once he/she cast Drain, you activate Absorb. He/she stops, you deactive it. He/she cast drain again, etc, etc. The person using Drain is pretty much in control throughout the whole round. There's probably a way to get around this, but I don't have a clue right now.

[DannyJAllTheWay]

you can abuse every force just by overusing it. i think they all can be countered. it's just something that you have to get used to and come to the realization that people are going to use it so you have to face it and learn to get around it. i mean i had people just constantly use heal when i was fighting them so i just started using drain. if they were goin to heal, i would too. it's just that they abused it by using it everytime i made them lose 30 health. i would have been difficult to win otherwise. i use drain a bit but not excessivly and i get called a drain whore or whatever just because i use it sometimes. if the solution is to make drain only have one ability, i'm all for that then. i don't mind. i don't think it would solve anything though. i mean people are still goin to abuse other forces, like heal and absorb. then we'll be putting posts up saying that those should be changed too. the key is to use and not abuse. if people can follow that rule, we'll all be fine.

[TheDarkSide]

This is the big thing that makes it unbalanced in my book....Absorb will take pushes/pulls/lightning and turn it into instant force pool regen, but with Drain, absorb only keeps you from getting drained, and the other guy from getting health. Your absorb keeps ticking away. So the other guy stops draining, u take down ur absorb, and boom he drains u before ur force can regenerate at all. You turn on absorb, start the process over, that is if u have any force left from the drain level3 sneak attack, and the process starts over to an inevitable conclusion that the light runs out of juice.

 

The only real counter I've seen to this is having a teammate come up and attack,push, whatever to the drainer. However in one on one, it'll get u every time.

 

To the person who responded that when u r hit with drain, you should just force pull them to u and slash, I say two things. You've never been hit with level 3 force drain before. Your force is gone almost b4 u hit your absorb hotkey. The second is that drain can be launched from a longer distance than you pull.

 

The best strategy I have found is to run away preferably into an area with corners that you can use for cover, and keep jamming that mindtrick button so the instant your force pool can do it, you go invisible. Mindtrick doesn't suck down any force after it is used. Just the initial grab. Use the mindtrick to either get into position for a killing blow (turn off your saber first) or use it to get to a better hiding spot to regen ur force. (Force won't regen while u r invisible)

 

TDS

[Kuroshi]

Personally, I believe that if you can keep your head while fighting, there are many things you can do to combat Drain. To put it simply, I think it's fairly balanced.

 

Anyhow, if I was to suggest something to make them seem more balanced to everyone else, I say that you should only be able to tell Absorb is working is when you hit someone with a force power. Like maybe the glow on the person you hit with Drain should be blue, instead of red. I'd say hide the usage of Absorb completely, but then you'd have people complaining about cheating when the guy is only Absorbing.

[Elenkis]

>>Once he/she cast Drain, you activate Absorb. He/she stops, you deactive it. He/she cast drain again, etc, etc.<<

 

You make it sound like both players are just standing there looking at each other. It is not as simple as that, there is not some generic formula - there are so many factors involved in combat in this game that people seem to miss, keep a clear head and think. You often only need to counter Drain until you get in their face with your lightsaber, once you're both engaged in combat he/she is not going to be using Drain the whole time as it leaves him/her totally defenseless, keep the pressure on and prevent them from getting a chance to use it again. People seem to miss the fact that using Drain means you are not defending yourself, you cannot block any attack - THAT is its big weakness, one that can be easily taken advantage of. With Absorb you can attack the opponent without even having to take Absorb off, do you realise how powerful that is?! I used to be a Dark side player too, until I realised how effective Absorb really is.

[Point2Jedi]

In order to counter those heal fanatics/losers and condon abusers lets just put a time limit on the multiplayer duels. Like in the past posts people have said there are ways to counter drain. Trying to get around it is half the fun. COUNTER IT! The time limit will help stop those heal freaks from healing so much. Who knows. Any segestions on how we can counter those healing freaks????

-Point2Jedi

[jedialphaknight]

dude do you people get this

 

"turn it on when they start draining" what are you dumb? have you played this game called jedi outcast?

 

Ok reality check, when you start getting drained, your mana is GONE in less than 2 seconds by the time you hit the key your mana is gone.

[RahnDelSol]

Yeah, it's true...if someone hits you with drain, your mana is gone before you can react. Simple as that.

 

But it's not really a big deal (speaking as a lightsider)

 

After one or two encounters with a person during a battle, you know which people will try to drain and which won't.

 

Tonight, whenever I'd see a known drainer nearby, I'd hit that absorb and run in swinging. Yeah, absorb doesn't last terribly long...but it lasts long enough to buy me the time I might need to kill the guy off.

 

If it doesn't look like I'm going to get him in time, then I need to find another option.

 

It's like I was saying in my other thread...Absorb makes all the difference. It may not have the offensive power of the dark side powers, but it's an excellent tool to keep you alive while you do the job yourself

[Elenkis]

Actually I don't know about you, but it takes me less than half a second to activate my force powers. It is as simple as moving my finger up from A to Q to use Absorb or from D to E to use Push for example, and more often than not that is enough.

 

>>It's like I was saying in my other thread...Absorb makes all the difference.<<

 

I love Absorb now, it's my favourite power

[CheshireKat]

I use the Darkside, and I think the best players use the Light Side. Just go play Duel and look for them. It's just that they know what they are doing. I do agree some people abuse the hell out of the Drain Grip method, but I've seen it countered properly.

[RahnDelSol]

I can get to 'em pretty quick, but if a drainer catches me before I can hit it, I'm outta luck.

 

I have a Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer (optical).

 

Programmable buttons

 

button 1 = fire

button 2 = alt fire

wheel = weapon select

side button 1 = next force

side button 2 = use force