GooglyMoogly Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Lets face it ...there ARE some lame players out there, you know the type one-trick-pony, win at all costs cuz it makes me feel Uber. I don't like "cheap" tactics anymore than the next guy, but in general I try to play the game like this. If I fight you and you use drain/grip repeatedly then I bring out my force powers, push, pull absorb etc... If you Grip and drop me off a ledge then next time I see you I'll push you over. If I can't push you then I'll simply break your grip and beat your ass with my saber. If you prove to be an"honorable" fighter then I fight you likewise..don't use grip or drain on me?...then I won't use push, pull or absorb. The bottom line is this...I WILL change my combat style to suit yours...if you wanna simply grip and chasm me all the time then I can play that game too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkSide Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 I second that Googly (wasn't that a Fraggle? ) That's pretty much my style too. I'll try to take you out playing fair (not gonna absorb whore ya) but you grip and throw me off a ledge, and the gloves are off You hit it right on the head....I'll adapt to your fighting style, and try my darndest to give u a taste of ur own medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nax Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 Googly, how exactly do you push someone without mana? Nax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scud Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 When you kick flip off someone that pushes them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essobie Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt Vag, was just pointing out that that whining is actually very selfish. If you want everyone to play a game YOUR way you are being selfish because they may want to play another way. I don't expect people to want to play the same way as me, but don't complain when I play my way. This is exactly the problem I'm getting at... I don't want to have to play YOUR way (assuming YOUR way is Drain/Grip 1v1 Saber/Force only). Drain in that situation is a must to compete with someone else using it, which makes the game shallow. I want there to be multiple ways to play that are balanced, not one way that "I like" that everyone else should adhere to. I'd actually like to USE Drain at some point... not because it's overpowerful like it is now, but because it's an interesting force power (especially since it opens up a healing aspect that the Dark side hasn't seen before now... outside of Magic: The Gathering!). Essobie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essobie Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 Originally posted by GooglyMoogly Lets face it ...there ARE some lame players out there, you know the type one-trick-pony, win at all costs cuz it makes me feel Uber. I don't like "cheap" tactics anymore than the next guy, but in general I try to play the game like this. If I fight you and you use drain/grip repeatedly then I bring out my force powers, push, pull absorb etc... If you Grip and drop me off a ledge then next time I see you I'll push you over. If I can't push you then I'll simply break your grip and beat your ass with my saber. If you prove to be an"honorable" fighter then I fight you likewise..don't use grip or drain on me?...then I won't use push, pull or absorb. The bottom line is this...I WILL change my combat style to suit yours...if you wanna simply grip and chasm me all the time then I can play that game too. I've always been the type to bring MY game to the table and force others to deal with me, and this game is no different. Frankly if Drain was a bit less powerful, I'd probably be using it now. But right now I'm staying away from Saber only because of it, and FFA makes Drain a pile of poo. Don't get me wrong, I'll adapt to someone elses tactics... but only if they are doing well against me at MY game. Essobie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl_Hicks Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 First off just because I do not have alot of posts and because i just joined this forum does not mean I am a "newbie" sounds like I am playing Paintball now with Newbies, anyhow how in the hell can some one complain about the force powers being uneven? I think it makes it more challenging to defeat a certain player when they use force drain. I love killing players that use that on me because they think they have me, guess again. Quick complaining and play for fun. Sounds like the complainers are playing for money or something. If you think it is unfair play against friends on a lan in a private room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrEEpaGe Posted April 5, 2002 Author Share Posted April 5, 2002 if you people think that having one force power more powerful than the others is bad, wait until you get out into the real world; its a lot more competitive, much more unbalanced in terms of opportunity...you have the same opportunity to use a tactic to battle drain (ie heal before drain, absorb (heh), and finally drain, among other tactics)...in life sometimes you have no way to battle truly unfair tactics and simply not being good enough...if you are truly the better player (they will be showing up very well in the next few weeks (more pronounced)), you will win if your strategy is good... vag, i need to ask a question.... HOW IS n00b OFFENSIVE??? if you would have read teh entire thread and my posts i have stated several times that i dont consider being new to the game offensive (as you have changed it to in the post virtually)...i have said time and time again....being a newbie is an attitude...it is because of ignorance...and by ignorance, i do not mean its "interpreted" definition, that of stupidity, but of simple not wanting to learn, not wanting to know the other sides.... the newbies i know, the single player newbies at my school that i know, my friends, are very ignorant about much strategy....the faster that true newbies (literal ones) realize that they can get out of the slums of not knowing about the game strategy, the sooner and much more they will be respected... that was what i was commenting on and about the number of game whining posts.... this was not something that i made up...most of the people that i saw pointing out all the things wrong with teh game and whining were the ones who did not have many posts.... lets say that all users are fruits... apples are the whiners most of the apples are new users NOT ALL USERS OR NEW USERS ARE APPLES.... if you would look at the rhetoric i used, you would see that i am not making ANY blanket statement.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sttaffy Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 on drain/grip these people are good at it, but that is usually all they are good at. the drainers tought me how to use a saber. the most satisfying part of any mp game i have ever played is when 4 guys came at me draining me and jumped, slashed down and killed one. backflipped, killed another. then they broke out thier sabers, and i got hit with the big smack one from the heavy stance, ran up to one guy and kickflipped off of him he went to the ground, killed him, then backwards stabbed the last guy. it was about 1 in a billion chance, and about 150% luck. i am not that great at the game, but if you go up against the grip monkies then you come out better at the saber. i didnt know what absorb did until now, i thought it was automatic, and you always took less damage. (wrong) as for being honorable, if i push someone over a ledge 5 times in a row i will stop. if i get pushed 5 times in a row i would hope the other guy stopped and for hitting guys on the ground, it is a great tactic. you can run straight at them and they expect a swing, but instead you jump off of them, ala doube jumping at the walls. they get hurt, ans sometimes fall down. it also looks cool as hell if you do that to someone, and kill his buddy, then kill him. i switch from guns to saber a lot. it is a part of the game to learn how to balance the two in your own style. anyway, happy gaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrEEpaGe Posted April 5, 2002 Author Share Posted April 5, 2002 exactly! they are counting on drain to work and for you to just sit there and say..."gee that just drained my force"...many of them are unaccustomed to fighting the uh...bah....the word escapes me..bah...traditional (yay i remembered it) way...and when you have a strategy against them, it throws them off guard and they will be much much less likely to use drain on you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrEEpaGe Posted April 5, 2002 Author Share Posted April 5, 2002 I would finally just like to clear a few things up so that I can stop taking flak for something which we should be able to discuss civilly (i dunno if i have ever seen that word before, but it seems to look weird). First, I created this thread not to berate those who were complaining about drain or to make fun of new people. While I brought the argument about drain with me, what I was really trying to do was present simply another side to the story. I had seen many threads and posts about how unbalanced drain was. I saw very few threads discussing the other side. I knew that when I began this thread that many would oppose it, but in a way, that is why I had to post it. I am not in any way trying to tell you how to play. I am giving you another way instead of going gung-ho for an immediate patch. With discussion comes genius (I don't know if anyone ever said that, but I just thought of it now. heh). If we don't discuss both sides to the story or issue, how do we really know what the true issue at hand is? While the first post of the thread seemed to be a little strong, I did that simply to get people to recognise the ignorance of themselves and others. We are all ignorant about everything, only to a certain degree. With this thread, I hoped for everyone's sake to alleviate some of that ignorance, and if you would read the continued posts of myself and others in this thread and not simply the first post, you will see this theme coming out. I hope that I do not have to clarify myself on this issue much longer; typing all of this takes away from my JO time =). Anyway, I am truly sorry if I seemed to offend anyone. I did not mean any ill will toward anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asheen-Shugar Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 Luke Skywalker: Alright, I'll give it a try. Yoda: No! Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painreliever Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 Asheen-Shugar, you must have that poster of Yoda's sayings hanging on the wall in front of you, because the only thing I have seen of your 14 posts is quotes from the movies. I am not sure your posts actually are adding anything to the conversations, merely quoting what most of us already have memorized. Feel free to use your own words to answer questions and add to conversations, we will try not to flame you too much. Let us get to know you, we know the movies already... Vader: Well Calrissian...is he alive? Lando: He's alive, and in perfect hibernation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creston Posted April 6, 2002 Share Posted April 6, 2002 Originally posted by Kurgan Just a note, these are NOT "the official lucasarts forums" if you meant that LEC runs them. In fact we are the Lucas Fan Networks.. ie: FAN run sites based on LEC games. We're a fan community.. just wanted to make that clear. ; ) Ooops, my mistake Thanks for clearing that up. I figured with a name like lucasforums, it HAD to be official Creston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyDiplo Posted April 6, 2002 Share Posted April 6, 2002 OK, I am the archetypal newbie to JKII multiplayer and since I also have few posts I guess my opinion will not be deemed worthy, but here goes my experience... I played my first online JKII games tonight on a duel server. I was expecting some fun saber to saber action, which I presumed was the main point of the game. However, after waiting what seemed like ages to actually get a game I played this one guy who would immediately spring to the top of the high platform on Hanger and then just used force drain on me - so much so that I couldn't even jump up to fight him. Even if I managed to get enough force 'mana' to attempt to jump up he would just use force push to knock me down before I could reach it. Hardly fun, and not a good first impression of the game. Eventually I just pulled out my blaster and started shooting him, to which I got the inevitable gasp of horror from him, because this is just not done!. Oh, the irony, I thought. I just said fine, I won't shoot you if you come down and actually fight... Eventually he did, and though he kept using force drain all the time so I had no force powers to aid me, I did beat him 50% of the time. And what do you know? It was fun actually locking sabers! The fact is, the excessive force drain makes the game boring. The majority of the people I know just want to fight with sabers, not use lightning or drain. Push and pull are great, and add strategy and depth, but some of the other powers just turn what can be a really fun game into a boring, tedious and repetitive slog that will eventually alienate a lot of players - and if that happens the online community will die a slow death, as it is drained of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrEEpaGe Posted April 8, 2002 Author Share Posted April 8, 2002 okay...you just applied so many double standards, contradictions, and whatnots its not even funny... if you want to play sabers only and not have grip and lightning, play NF sabers....okay...fair enough.... if you want force, deal with it!! force push, grip, lightning, and drain should be in the game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyDiplo Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Originally posted by thrEEpaGe okay...you just applied so many double standards, contradictions, and whatnots its not even funny... If you're refering to my post maybe you could be so nice as to condescend to actually pointing out what these "double standards" and "contradictions" are? Or was that just a shallow swipe without any substance? if you want to play sabers only and not have grip and lightning, play NF sabers....okay...fair enough.... Did I say I didn't want any force powers? No. Did you even read the post before replying? Probably not. I said I wanted powers such as pull and push, as these add to tactical maneuvers when fighting. I just don't particularly think that lightning and drain add any fun to the game, especially when they get so over abused. I played quite a few duels online and every time you get one player who wants to play hide'n'seek and just repeatedly (ab)uses these two powers over and over again, and usually won't even try and engage you in combat. It's b-o-r-i-n-g. if you want force, deal with it!! force push, grip, lightning, and drain should be in the game... At least, then, make the powers available configurable by the server operative. What gets me is that the "anti-whiners" brigade seem to be the most vociferous whiners here. You seem to think the game is beyond reproach, and that anyone providing constructive criticism to help make it more enjoyable and balanced should be shouted down because "that's the way it is and that's the way it should always be". Fact is, in six months times I reckon mutliplayer is going to be virtually dead, unless something is done now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMikey Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 I am a "newbie" to this game, however, I have never whined about the "veteran" players using the grip drain powers. I would like to philosophize a bit about the whole honor v.s. dishonor debate. This game is giving Star Wars fans a unique opportunity. Darkside against the light side of the force. If you were a jedi knight, or master for that matter, would you use a "trick" like knocking your foe down in a duel and hacking their head off before they can get up again? Think of good v.s. evil, would the good guy use "dirty tricks" to win? I am not condemning anyone's gaming style, but I do think there is great RPG potential in the MP aspect of this gmae. In a way, you are playing a persona, a character that you have created so anything you do in a server does tend to stick with your name, and can give you a reputation good or bad. If I want to play an evil character, I would use every trick I can find to defeat my opponent, but as a good guy (lightside) I would only try to act honorably, and yes it is very possible to do well in an FFA server playing honorably...perhaps you will not win with the most kills every time, but you will have won something much more valuable than bragging rights; Respect. Mon deux sous Darth Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TdM Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Ok all this talk about Honor right?... Being dishonorable is using crosshairs in a game when everyone else is not - it is using guns when everyone else has confined themselves to close quarters combat and this has been clearly stated - I know this has just about been eliminated in JKII because of all the multiplayer options but I'm making a sweeping statement of all games here - shooting someone in the back (which I saw someone right as dishonorable higher up in this post) is not dishonorable as long as said person hasn't commited themselves to a 1 on 1 with someone else - its their own fault they aren't being observant... personally I hate scopes and snipers and in some games I see sniping as dishonorable - this is in games with an unbalanced rifle - however in JKII as long as you are keeping your eyes open you can spot snipers and kill them very easily (if you are good enough) so it is perfectly honorable to snipe in JKII except if you are camping in a dark near inaccessible corner - grrrr you know who you are.... I, as my friends know, will only fight with close range weapons either hand to hand or inaccurate close range weapons (the stormtroopers e-11 rifle) this is my choice and I will fight like this even if everyone is kicking my butt with disruptors because I see this as the most honorable and fun way to fight - but in JKII everything can be countered if you know how so no weapon is dishonorable. but hey I think we all agree here that the point is FUN as long as no-one is ruining anyone elses fun then let honor be a personal choice - do what you like people just keep it fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrEEpaGe Posted April 8, 2002 Author Share Posted April 8, 2002 Originally posted by DannyDiplo OK, I am the archetypal newbie to JKII multiplayer and since I also have few posts I guess my opinion will not be deemed worthy, but here goes my experience... I played my first online JKII games tonight on a duel server. I was expecting some fun saber to saber action, which I presumed was the main point of the game. However, after waiting what seemed like ages to actually get a game I played this one guy who would immediately spring to the top of the high platform on Hanger and then just used force drain on me - so much so that I couldn't even jump up to fight him. Even if I managed to get enough force 'mana' to attempt to jump up he would just use force push to knock me down before I could reach it. Hardly fun, and not a good first impression of the game. Eventually I just pulled out my blaster and started shooting him, to which I got the inevitable gasp of horror from him, because this is just not done!. Oh, the irony, I thought. I just said fine, I won't shoot you if you come down and actually fight... Eventually he did, and though he kept using force drain all the time so I had no force powers to aid me, I did beat him 50% of the time. And what do you know? It was fun actually locking sabers! The fact is, the excessive force drain makes the game boring. The majority of the people I know just want to fight with sabers, not use lightning or drain. Push and pull are great, and add strategy and depth, but some of the other powers just turn what can be a really fun game into a boring, tedious and repetitive slog that will eventually alienate a lot of players - and if that happens the online community will die a slow death, as it is drained of players. since you did not seem to see the logic in my post (i had to leave quickly), i will try to explain, and sorry, again if i sounded annoyed to say the least; it drives me nuts when people contradict themselves (i am goign to add bold to the points which i need to point out) "Even if I managed to get enough force 'mana' to attempt to jump up he would just use force push to knock me down before I could reach it. " "Push and pull are great, and add strategy and depth, but some of the other powers just turn what can be a really fun game into a boring, tedious and repetitive slog that will eventually alienate a lot of players - and if that happens the online community will die a slow death, as it is drained of players. " okayyy....so YOU can use pull and push if you are having fun, but the others cant knock you down in their drain strategy? "Push and pull are great, and add strategy and depth, but some of the other powers just turn what can be a really fun game into a boring, tedious and repetitive slog that will eventually alienate a lot of players - and if that happens the online community will die a slow death, as it is drained of players. " another thing on this bit, how will it alienate players? those who dont wish to use strategy? drain, is, imo, a very interesting power, but its ability to be used by both players makes it more so interesting...you can counter drain with other force powers or drain itself, and if the people who dont know how to cope with the strategy, more than likely, they will give up or try to find a new strategy....thus, alienating some of those who dont like strategy in fps... "The majority of the people I know just want to fight with sabers, not use lightning or drain. " if most people DONT use drain, as you just stated, why is it such a problem???????????????? "I did beat him 50% of the time." so obviously he is not skilled in the ways of a true good MP player...stating another of my points again, many drain people exhibit the qualities of a low quality script kiddie, no original thought or ideas, and in this case, no 'real' skill....if you would have used absorb or drain on him, he would not have hurt you at all, because even with him having drain and mana, you were able to kill him 50% of the time, so with you both not having force, you would have fared much better.... im trying to help people out here; instead of crying imbalance and yelling for a patch, try to at least find a strategy to combat them...the dark side is definitely more offensive in terms of combat; both sides have their advantages, the dark sides are much more immediate... i did read your post the first time, and that wasnt a blanket statement against whiners.. by the way, in response to your response =), i think that drain should, in fact, be toned down a bit, only to offer a little more variety for those casual players, but i also agree with the need for many more configurable server options; it should be an option for the server host to ban certain force powers and adjust certain things; i think that this will come in the form of a mod or something like it...but for a patch, i think that a simple adjustment of the overall effectiveness of drain would suffice....however, i do not think that drain is uncounterable, as many of the people out there are saying... 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