MP Imbalance Issue: Guns + Force vs Sabers + Force

[Anon]

fact is guns beat sabers hands down any day.

 

This game is right of the q3 engine and with that the idea being you start with the crap weapons and you run to get the better ones. Now the saber is not crap but its certainly not going to win you the match if you never use it and never use guns on a gun server against good gunners.

 

a smart gunner just waits for the saberer to swing and when he does u just blast him and he's stuffed.

unless your using the motar style second fire on some guns

 

i have wasted many a sabered even with the crappy yellow blaster on full charge. Hit them with this backed up by some lightning and there dead.

 

hell even some of the guns are similar clones from other fps games.

 

The Flechette is a ripoff the ut flak cannon

the stormtrooper rifle on secondary fire is almost a q2 hyperblaster used well

blaster = q2 blaster with charge mode

sniper rifle primary fire is like the ut shock rifle primary fire cept weaker

thermals = grenades

rocket launcer = name says it all

 

bottom line is jedi knight is a fps with sabers and force powers.

and fps style quake tatics win the day everytime.

 

by that i mean running the weaps , powerups , shield , bacta and keeping everyone else from getting it while blasting away at them.

 

a good guner will beat a good saberer everytime and thats just how the game is.

[VaderJM]

Making backpedaling slower isn't gonna solve anything, just makes it a little tougher, I mean all you have to do is turn away and start running, jump then turn back and fire, then turn away in midair and keep running.

[Orangina_Rouge]

Originally posted by Ascari

Maybe a simple and easy solution is to just extend the range of a force pull? and make the chance to pull a gun out of some1's hands to 99.99%?

 

 

Why make the chance to pull at 99 % when it is already 100% ??? ( or 50 % like someone said )

I dunno how ppl don t succeed in pulling guns ......maybe they tried with only one force point in pull

 

And concerning the range of pull we want guns to be a little less potent NOT totally useless .......and i think fixing the backpedaling ( maybe also slow down the player who is using heavy weapons ....after all it makes sense that someone carrying a rocket launcher can t run like Carl Lewis ) issue and maybe considering the saber as a focus of power for force users( by upping force regen or limiting the level of force powers if not using saber ) is the solution ....also of course fix the drain issue ( but that doesn t belong to the guns problem )

[Orangina_Rouge]

Man fixing the backpedaling will solve a lot of things for COMPETENT players coz it will allows u to pull or push the gunner sooner and slice him

 

For ppl sayin that they just have to wait for saberists to swing to shoot a blaster in their face , i must tell you are fightin NOOBS

No decent saberists will swing without knockin u down first ...and once u re down u re dead

The same for turning then jump and face again ......i m roflmao if u do this ....coz i pull u and then u can kiss my saber once u re down

 

So as u can see backpedaling will solve a lot of things, the other issue is the heavy guns but that s another thing and i thing toning down repeater alt fire is necessary ( i think slower ROF )

Flechettes no need coz every decent force user can counter it ...... not 100% of time ( mainly coz u gotta soak some damage to pull push or whatever and u cannot do this if low on life ) but if it was then no need of this gun

 

I want guns to have their place in this game ....Not make them counterable by noobs and useless vs decent players

There is just some little tweaks to do , saber is very useful contrary to some beliefs and win a lot vs gunners on tight maps like death star , imperial etc....( coz gunners can t flee very far while spammin nor doing acrobatics )

[Novus]

Starwars Fanboys LOSE with JK2 MP. No matter how you crack it you're going to be pissed. It's either the light saber isn't powerfull enough, or it's a bunch of "Boba A**pirate"s running around with a light saber that pisses you off. This is a GAME first and for most. I don't care about SW IP. The most important thing for Raven was to give GAME players a well balanced GAME. That meant balancing EVERY weapon including the light saber. Despite my dislike of not feeling like a badass when weilding the LS I have to admit that as a defensive and occasional offensive weapon it is very well balanced. It fits well in the array of weapons available to players. It is also the first melee weapon in a FPS to have even SOME use other than mere tom foolery. Not only is it balanced with the other weapons but the stances are also well balanced. With the exception of drain the force powers are also well balanced.

 

Personally I like playing on LS only servers and generally on only Duel or TFFA servers. I like feeling like Jedi Master Billy Badass fighting against other Jedi. That's why I got this game. SW IP is an interesting fictional universe nothing more to me. It is not a way of life, and I will never believe that any fictional IP should ever get in the way of gameplay.

 

In conclusion if you're a fanboy get a clue and realise this is a game BASED on SW IP. It is a game first. It's bad enough the the E-11 shoots like it was being fired by a crack addict going through withdrawl because of "canon". Either the StormTroppers were the worst shots ever or they made the worst guns ever in a galaxy far, far away. But, that's another discussion I never really want to get into. If you want the LS to dominate there are plenty of LS only servers out there. Otherwise the LS is a well placed weapon in an array of well balanced weapons. If you don't use it as such you will, in the long run, lose.

 

BTW, disabling force powers is currently broken. disabling weapons is not.

[Mero Vilul]

Originally posted by Ascari

Maybe a simple and easy solution is to just extend the range of a force pull? and make the chance to pull a gun out of some1's hands to 99.99%?

 

And yes I do think that the alternative fire on a repeater is a bit 2 strong and fast.

 

Another solution would be to slow down your speed depending on the weight of the gun. So if u equip a repeater u walk a lot slower than a saberer.

 

 

just my 2 cents.

 

 

Been away for a while, I looked up this thread with big interest. (as I responded a lot in the beginning of it)

 

But the above comment is fantastic, and I don't know why I thought of it.

Someone wearing a Rocket launcher would be much slower than someone with a blaster. And if you make a "gunnery skill" it can mean that everyone can use ALL weapons with gunnery level 0, but with the Rocket Launcher and more heavier weapons they will walk EXTREMELY SLOW (half walk speed or something) and perhaps it can even make the aiming better (as it will be worse on low gunnery skill).

Im not talking but making the saber stronger, or the weapons weaker (well, perhaps secondary fire on you-know-which-weapon), they are good, they only problem I complain about, is that I as a pure saberist has to put A LOT more force points into saber defense, which pure force gunners can use for extra attack power. Pure Force gunners are always stronger in the force than a saberist. That's wrong the give them such an advantage.

Either take away force defend & attack and let everyone have max, just like the force gunners have with their weapons, or implent a gunnery skill...

 

As someone mentioned, using a rocket launcher and even a blaster takes skill to master, but still they've managed to train A LOT more in the power of the force than a saberist (although saber training takes a lot of time).

 

I know this ain't a Star Wars roleplaying game, but my only point is:

there are probably as many gunners as saberists out there, so give both types equal force powers.

 

My points, please comment.

 

/Mero Vilul

[Orangina_Rouge]

Well tonight i refined my force power list to counter the gun users and i can say i ended with a pretty powerful combo to ruin gunners day ........

The trouble is that just after i figured one of the power of the combo is the perfect way to whore with guns ( NO ...... gun users are not whores but doing what i did tonight is pretty lame in my opinion )

I don t even dare to say wich power it is but if u re a decent player ( and not some stupid killstealer spamming ppl dueling with sabers ) u ll figure wich power it is ......well one clue it is a dark side power

 

Man THIS power is a serious issue i think and should not SIMPLY be allowed to gunners....this clearly makes them godlike

 

So another issue to consider in the force gunners/force saberists problem

[Cow_JK:O]

The concept that guns should be on equal footing with sabers is ridiculous. This is a game about Jedis i.e. sabers. I find it insane that Raven actually put more than a few guns into this game.

 

And maybe its just me but I have an incredibly hard time pulling guns away. Anyway, with guns like the repeater secondary or anything unblockable by saber really its just no contest. Saber user is always dead.

 

If I wanted to play with guns I'd go do CS, the beauty of JKO is the saber + force together. All the moves with the saber and interesting saber+force combos are completely nullified by some idiot using a rocket launcher (I figure Raven put this in just to piss off people who happen to use/like the saber.)

 

I'm forced to play in the (ever elusive) sabers only games or duel (wow..sit around and wait, then get smacked by drain--but thats another issue entirely, and one not nearly as important)

 

I know I'll get flamed like crazy for this but I think sabers should have a HUGE advantage over guns, and guns should really only be practical against a VERY untrained Jedi or guns vs guns. I think the simplest fix would be NO force powers with guns, limit backpeddaling, and nerf the repeater and 'flak cannon'.

[Essobie]

Originally posted by Cow_JK:O

If I wanted to play with guns I'd go do CS, the beauty of JKO is the saber + force together. All the moves with the saber and interesting saber+force combos are completely nullified by some idiot using a rocket launcher (I figure Raven put this in just to piss off people who happen to use/like the saber.)

 

The beauty of JK2 (what's with everyone using Outcast for the title of this game? It's Jedi Knight 2: Blahdy Blah Blah... anyway...)... the beauty of JK2 is that it's weapons are NOT like the current crop of FPS's out there, such as CS or MoH or RTCW. There's only one hitscan weapon... the rest are projectiles.

 

 

 

I'm forced to play in the (ever elusive) sabers only games or duel (wow..sit around and wait, then get smacked by drain--but thats another issue entirely, and one not nearly as important)

 

I know I'll get flamed like crazy for this but I think sabers should have a HUGE advantage over guns, and guns should really only be practical against a VERY untrained Jedi or guns vs guns. I think the simplest fix would be NO force powers with guns, limit backpeddaling, and nerf the repeater and 'flak cannon'.

 

I wouldn't call this a flame, more like a clarification. Basically if you fix Drain, people who want the Saber to be the end all weapon will have a place to go to have a fun time... as well as people who want a break from the anarchy of switching between sabers and guns (which is how you win FFA). So in a way, you are correct about not having a place to play what you think this game should be, simply because Drain makes your game really shallow.

 

Currently FFA is really well balanced. Yes, there are 2 weapons that have alt fire that do tons of damage... but those weapons are hard to keep in your hands for very long if everyone on the server tries to take it away from you. Ideally if you get a Flechette or a Repeater, you immediately go looking for people to blow up before someone either kills you or takes the weapon from you. If you can get between 2 and 5 kills before someone kills you, that's a good run. Any more than that and you are playing against amateurs.

 

Do what I'm doing: play FFA, TFFA, and even look for the occational Jedi Master server to play on. These are the games that aren't broken. Avoid duel servers that have any force powers since that means Drain. If you like Force Sabers without Drain, you are probably going to have to find someone that is running a private server that has house rules (they are out there, you know). Until Drain gets nerfed/redesigned, don't bother on public Duel servers.

 

Essobie

[|GzFC|bébé]

well, nuff said ...let's find a solution..

 

my shot would be:

 

servers set to max force rank 7(jedi master),(ctf, ffa, tffa, cty..), guns allowed(much more fun)

 

before the game starts, you will have to choose the way you play):

1st: gunner or master/lightsaber

2nd: place your force-points by following rules

 

--> gunners have 23 points only for the basic forces(jump, pull, push, speed, seing) ....why 23 points you might ask?!

i just put every force to level 2..which sounds fair to me, it were 23 force-points in addition

 

---> master/lightsaber will have their 100 points as usual for any force they like...

 

like it? i really hope so..would love to balance it out a bit..and the fun should certainly rise..

sabers get better and more fair chances...and gunners will have their challenge

 

how are we gonna get this to raven btw?!

[fgStratus]

Well, I'm hoping that with enough replies, a Raven staff member may actually read this thread. After that, he may bring up this issue to other staff members and they may actually patch. However, I know that after having designed such a great game, they probably want to wait around awhile (the game hasn't even been out for a month yet) before they begin fundamentally altering it.

 

Addressing obvious balance issues such as drain by simply toning its cost-benefit would be a minor change, and the consequences would be easily forseeable. But adding in a different class, or a new gun force-level restriction/requirement would have many unseen side-effects and hence we probably won't see any changes in this field for awhile.

[SilverKnightX]

I agree w/ artic_series. JK2 isnt just a lame fragfest