attempt to balance mp-problem(forces, guns and sabers)..pls help to find solution

[|GzFC|bébé]

well, nuff said ...let's find a solution..

 

my shot would be:

 

servers set to max force rank 7(jedi master),(ctf, ffa, tffa, cty..), guns allowed(much more fun)

 

before the game starts, you will have to choose the way you play):

1st: gunner or master/lightsaber

2nd: place your force-points by following rules

 

--> gunners have 23 points only for the basic forces(jump, pull, push, speed, seing) ....why 23 points you might ask?!

i just put every force to level 2..which sounds fair to me, it were 23 force-points in addition

 

---> master/lightsaber will have their 100 points as usual for any force they like...

 

like it? i really hope so..would love to balance it out a bit..and the fun should certainly rise..

sabers get better and more fair chances...and gunners will have their challenge

 

how are we gonna get this to raven btw?!

but first let me hear your opinion on this..

[n0th1ng]

i think gun users shouldn't even have force/lightsabres in the first place, and sabre users shouldn't be able to use guns. Anyways thats just what i feel

[Canis_Aureus]

I posted this in the PATCH thread... but it's getting long and old. So here's my ideas again...

 

- A new game option "Grunt or Jedi?". Where you choose if you want to be a jedi or be a soldier. If you are a solder you will not have a lightsaber nor any force powers. You will be able to carry all the weapons. Perhaps Grunts could buy their starting weapons and ammo for points like powers. The jedis would only have their light saber and blaster... they will not be able to pick up other weapons, the turret and perhaps forcefield. I think this option would be cool. I still think weapon users would be most powerful... but it would be more fair and improve gameplay. Instead of Force powers the grunts could use points to start with equipment like the bacta canisters, turret or forcefield.

 

We should be able to customize our servers:

 

1. Enable or disable each weapon indicvidually

2. Enable or disable each force power individually. I would like to see that the server could configure the maximum rank for each force.

 

- I would also like to see an option for removing the shield chargers. Or setting the maximum shield level players can have (0 - 200). The reason for this is that with 100 health and close to 200 shield energy ... you can take too many hits with the saber IMO.

 

Basically make as many options to customize the server as you can think of !

[n0th1ng]

great idea !!

[|GzFC|bébé]

well, a patch would certainly have to change many other things too, i know

but the balance is my greatest concern atm..

for a saberonly player like me..it is really hard to play online..

i really like competition and i certainly never whine or anything...it is just that against good gunners(even spammers ), you just don't feel jedi enough ..they can do the same things you can do...and EVEN HAVE MORE force-power than you...cause they don't need to put powerpoints to lightsaberoffense,-defense nor throw

 

i thought about taking away all force from gunners too, but i think that would be offbalanced in favour of jedis in a way..especially ctf for example ..

[007killer]

so, **** of u guys

[LightningBaron]

Originally posted by 007killer

so, **** of u guys

 

so why does a saber only person NEVER top a server? its always the gunners that do (they may use there sabers now and then but they use guns mainly)! with a gun u can kill people quicker and move to the next, while in a saber fight it can take minutes to have one fight (uninterupted against someone good)!

 

so how about u use that thing rattling in your skull (its ment to be your brain) and think before u post, the game is NOT balance for FFA, so how about you **** off (notice the double F)

[Canis_Aureus]

Hey James Bondage... stfu k thanx

 

This would be an option, servers could enable it... it would be a new game mode... do you at all comprehend the idea presented or are you just trying to justify your lack of importance?

 

There is only one thing to do at the moment STRUT!

 

Canis

[CaptainNemo]

Yeah, the sabers are kinda weak. I find myself having much more fun in saber only games because it's equal. With guns (expecially area effect ones) it is sooooo easy to kill someone. I agree for the gunner\jedi thing.

[n0th1ng]

i use sabre ONLY(exept for gun items like sentry and that floating thing that shoots laser) and i manage to make it to the top about 4/10 times, sometimes more sometimes less

 

(EDIT : forgot to mention when i see someone using area effect guns exept rocket launcher i usually do mind trick and/or run)

[LightningBaron]

well maybe your a one off, but everytime i play online (usually boomtown/jolt) i use nothing but sabers (and force to even things, tho i prefer not too usually) and i have never seen a saber user top a server, its always the gunners that shoot into the middle of a 4 man saber fight that top it! now i rnt bothered about topping a server, i play for fun, but the type of players that do top servers kinda help my point. with a gun it takes a few shots to kill, with a saber it takes some skillful fighting, dodging, and changing of attack type to suit the situation. all of which increases fighting time if ur against someone that knows what there doing or doesnt get lucky with a STRONG move

 

edit: ah, mind trick, pretty useful but i tend to use all the dark force thinkgs, mainly drain and grip with all saber skills (offence, defence and throw) maxed

[Essobie]

Originally posted by LightningBaron

 

so why does a saber only person NEVER top a server? its always the gunners that do (they may use there sabers now and then but they use guns mainly)! with a gun u can kill people quicker and move to the next, while in a saber fight it can take minutes to have one fight (uninterupted against someone good)!

 

so how about u use that thing rattling in your skull (its ment to be your brain) and think before u post, the game is NOT balance for FFA, so how about you **** off (notice the double F)

 

Sure it is... the Lightsaber just isn't any good unless you are upclose and fighting against someone else with a Lightsaber, that's all.

 

"Balanced" doesn't mean that every weapon in the game is just as good as every other weapon in the game... it means that all the weapons have strong points and weak points allowing them to be used in different situations. It just so happens that the majority of the time, the situations where the Flechette or the Heavy Repeater are the most effective are the most promonent.

 

That's simply a factor of having a 3D environment where big splash damage is the easiest way to kill the most people the quickest.

 

Only time I have the saber out is when someone is right up next to me, and when I want to keep my Heavy Repeater from being pulled out of my hand... THOSE are the purposes of the Lightsaber.

 

All this "Jedi Weapon" nonsense only has a place on saber only servers.

 

Essobie

[Underlord]

I haven't actually played the game yet and getting a copy through the week. I can't wait till I get it.

I have been reading through the forums and this seems to be a big issue. I think the the best way would be what |GzFC|bébé said how you have classes and restrict what weapons are available to what you choice. It doesn't seem fair that gunners get to run around with force power and do exactly what your able to do if you use the lightsaber. Which is what you're meant to use as a jedi.

 

I think that there should be classes and restriction in the game to make it more even.

 

Hopefully Raven do address this issue in patches that will be released.

 

P.S. 007killer you a moron. You'd be a spammer who runs round levels shooting people in the back I bet.

[LightningBaron]

-- Sure it is... the Lightsaber just isn't any good unless you are upclose and fighting against someone else with a Lightsaber, that's all.

 

"Balanced" doesn't mean that every weapon in the game is just as good as every other weapon in the game... it means that all the weapons have strong points and weak points allowing them to be used in different situations. --

 

i realise that, but this game hasnt really balanced things properly. u say a saber is only good against another saber. not true in all occasions. if there is only one person against you with a gun (preferably a laser type) then a saber "can" be better along with using the force if your stats are right (good defence for deflecting and push/grip etc for interupting there fire). but that situation rarely happens. the game is often more like UT death match and chucking someone in with just a knife. what isnt balanced is someone with a gun pushing people away, a guns disadvantage is ment to be close range

[Orangina_Rouge]

Man the problem with guns is not GUNS by themselves

It s that gunners have Force powers

Personnally i can beat hand down a gunner with a saber ....my problem is that i found out too that my little combo to beat them is Godlike if i use weapons too

 

Well i ll explain to the unbelievers here

U will all agree that u can pull weapons ( 100% of time contrary to the lamers belief ) if u re close enough

So the problem is to come close enough and survive to pull heh ??

I usually did acrobatics dodge whatever u want or plain rushed if i had enough life and shield and pulled the gunner weapon .....either if used its own gun or sliced the poor guy after that is all about my feeling of the moment ....my rate of success in closing to pull was about 50% ( depending almost allways of my life and shield at the moment i was attacked by gunner )

Well now i came up to think how to get close everytime and survive it .....99% of time

And i got it , RAGE .......50% faster , 50% absorb damage, cannot die when low on life but instead reduced to 1 HP and turn off power ( so u can soak one more shot before dying ) ....i m not mentinonning the fact u can use bacta or drain to keep up rage if u re low on life

So know i can rush mindlessly gunners and pull their guns ....GREAT u would say ...well not

Coz the problem is used guns with Rage after i pulled some and i can tell u that i can rack up kills faster than u ll ever dream of and survive a big melee

 

So my problem now is that Rage + pull is the ultimate answer to gunners but also that rage + guns makes the utlimate gunner

 

So if u forbid rage to gunners then i ll laugh everyday if someone shoot me with a gun ( not to mention the fact that if u forbid saber to gunners the poor guy will be defenceless if i pull his gun )

But if u don t forbid it i can see a lot of gunners coming to use this power and everyone will come to compete with this power + pull to counter it then use this gun.....so bye bye saberists and bye bye Light side too ( what said yoda about dark side not being the stongest ?? ....Bah nonsense )

If u get rid of rage then it s a force power u get rid of and it s a pretty big change

 

So as u can see it s a BIG issue here too .....personnally i try to not use the Rage + guns but if i need to compete on servers i can t rack up kills fast enough with Rage + saber only and have to resort to guns when i need some score boost

 

By the way i think all of this would be better in the feedback section now it exists ...personnally i ll post this later on it ...now gotta work

[Mattman]

As I saw posted in another thread...

 

How about assigning force points to weapons in the sense that the level you assign to weapons, the more powerful weapons one can use.

 

The original point of this thread, as I see it, is that in order to be good at the saber, you have to put a lot of force points into it, whereas someone who uses mostly guns doesn't necessarily need to put their saber skills so high, so they can use those points for other things, usually lightning, choke and drain, to yet further their advantage.

 

So, I think it should go something like this:

 

Guns level:

 

1 - pistol, blaster rifle, bowcaster

 

2 - disruptor, emp gun, thermal dets, trip mines

 

3 - heavy repeater, flachette, rocket launcher, det packs

 

Each level should cost a fairly large ammount of points too. It might also be a good idea if light / dark powers were disabled if the player chooses the gun skill, but I'd probably be willing to compromise on that.

 

Also, I thing that something that'd help gameplay immensely would be to slow down backpeddling. That probably my biggest complaint in the game so far. It's rediculous enough that you can run backwards at the same speed you run forward to begin with, but combine that fact with a repeater, flachette, or rocket launcher, and you've got a very bad situation on your hands.

 

This'd also keep the poor saberists from running from we while trying to spam the drain... It makes duels last way too long.

[Jaif]

...so why does a saber only person NEVER top a server?

 

Because they've handicapped themselves. Just because you chose not to use all the options available to you doesn't mean the game needs to be rebalanced. Use guns, use sabers, use force powers, and have some fun.

 

If you want to go into a FFA with the proverbial hand tied behind your back, bully for you, but don't whine about an imbalance and attempt to change the game. Change yourself (or find a saber-only server).

 

-Jeff

[LightningBaron]

u have put nooooo thought into that post at all. the saber is a WEAPON and can be used, there for it should have equal strenths and weaknesses to other weapons, which it does not! using a saber shouldnt be like tieing a hand behind your back, thats the whole point in this thread ffs! if i wanted to just go around gunning people id play UT, much better weapons in that game for a start! as i stated, i dont play to top the server, i play for fun, but the players that do top servers add to my point.

[Jaif]

Sorry lightning, but you're the one not reading carefully. Using the saber-ONLY, and refusing to use the other weapons, is the problem.

 

The saber is the most complete weapon system in the game. No other single weapon offers as much. You could not possibly do as well playing bowcaster-only, disrupter-only, or even repeater-only.

 

So don't complain when you play saber-only that things are unbalanced. They aren't, you just aren't being flexible.

 

-Jeff

[|GzFC|bébé]

just a little side-note:

 

as we all know from the beloved star-wars-movies...the lightsaber is the weapon of the jedi!!!!!! only jedis use it!!!!! only jedis have the power to master the force!!!!

 

don't get me wrong gunners, this is no whining..this is just a wish for the game being more "star wars"! there are plenty of fps out there...many of us hoped jk2 would be somehow different..it is the forces and the sabers that should make the differences...I, as hopefully many others too, wanna feel that "jedi-thingie"

no doubt I love "boba fett" too..he is a master of gunning..

but it would just fit so perfect when there were jedis..and gunners in that game...and certainly it would not destroy anything about the gameflow and feeling..it would just make it more perfect!

 

pls stop flaming..pls stop "play saber only"-shouts...thats just plain not the same..i hope you understand

[farmerBob]

1. Slow down rate-of-fire for heavy-repeater/fletchet secondary fire. We all agree that spamming takes little skill and is lame.

 

2. Slow down back-pedaling to 2/3 - 3/4 of normal front running speed. Common sense.

 

3. Slow down rate of Drain DRASTICALLY. I'm sorry but if you have any sort of medium range or higher ping, you have no chance to activate Absorb in time to counteract a back-pedaling Drainer. I've tried... often.

 

4. Increase the effectiveness of Saber Defense against guns while running. After all, Jedi are able to use the saber against blasters (in the movies) because it is an amazing defensive weapon. In multiplayer it doesn't seem to live up to this reputation.

 

5. I don't buy into the Quakesque arguement that says the first-person shooter should not reflect the movie. Otherwise, this game would not have JEDI KNIGHT in the title. If the Quake mentality is correct, then squads of Jedi would be downright stupid to charge into battle with only their sabers. I just don't buy that....

[|GzFC|bébé]

all 4 of your points sound nice farmerbob...

 

and call me stupid...but i wont take a weapon other than lightsaber in my hands while i play jk2, regardless what will be changed or not...shall gunners rape me sometimes with their spamming..i dont care..somehow i feel much too honored with the saber in my hands...

[Craggeh]

The saber is the most complete weapon system in the game. No other single weapon offers as much. You could not possibly do as well playing bowcaster-only, disrupter-only, or even repeater-only.

 

I beg to differ, repeater-only can win over many a server.

 

The only problem I see here is the fact there are two groups of people, gunners and saber-users. Hello? Personally, I use everything given to me in the game, and saber users are shooting (not literally, of course), themselves in the foot by using only the one weapon.

 

I need to use the saber - I use the saber. I need to use a gun - I use a gun. I need to use force powers - I use force powers. This is probably the reason I a) Win and b) Enjoy the game more than everyone that's whinging about the opposing forces being too powerful / too pathetic / too whatever.

 

I really enjoy Saber duels - I even partake in a little Saber only CTF, but it doesn't mean I CAN'T like guns. Kill the divide, people. I'd like to see a Saber only clan fare well in a team DM league.

 

Feel free to prove me wrong ^_______^

[Raijlin]

I agree with Cragg. People that limit themselves in a game that has so many options are pretty dumb. I play with all the tools the game has to offer. I'm sorry, but 4 or 5 glowsticks all swinging in one concentrated area just begs for a rocket launcher or a thermal det thrown in the pile. If you have multiple targets get the right tool for the job. By the same token, I'm always more than glad to chase down the lone gunner sporting a rifle or repeater, hafl the time just running at him with saber in hand is enough for him to take himself out before I even have to try. I'm always up for a duel on someone to get my JediGroove on, in the middle of chaos. But if there are more than 3sabers in one area, I'm outtie. Its just a big sign that says, Hey Gunners, free points here. And if you dont realize that, then your death is just as much your fault as it is the person who pulled the trigger. Personally, I LOVE playing sabers only CTF, its just Jedi mecca. It takes a ton of skill and is very in theme I feel. But if I'm on an FFA server then I cant and shouldnt expect the same type of play from those around me or myself. Just think a little bit ppl. There is a time and place for everything, if you're not having a good time, maybe you're in the wrong place.

 

Also, I do like the idea of Gunner/Jedi split. As a Wolfenstein addict I think classes are very cool especially when balanced right. But I dont think it should be a patch made across the board to all servers, just an option.

[Craggeh]

Also, I do like the idea of Gunner/Jedi split. As a Wolfenstein addict I think classes are very cool especially when balanced right. But I dont think it should be a patch made across the board to all servers, just an option

Who here can honestly say they can't see class based mods being thrown at us from all angles when the SDK is released?

 

Not that it's a bad thing - it's just something we shouldn't be worrying about