Level Size (Access to everything)

[[FoX]AuroN]

What if...like in the level "Streets Of Nar"the doors to the bar for example were open..so you could walk inside... maybe citizens walking around also... that were possible in MP in JK II Dark forces... that was waay cool....gives you a more realistic feeling over it... the levels in JK II are big..thats for sure..but thats in SP ... in MP you can feel they are closed in a big square... i felt it right away...that my limitations were there....

 

Thats why many says SP rocks and MP sux...

 

I guess...i love MP anyways..but i am REALLY curios if there is a possibility of creating interactive elements like a disco room or a pool or anything in a MP level... and citizens walking around..or maybe tie fighters flying across the skies..making it more real.... after all this were easy to add in JK 2 dark forces...why not with a newer engine ?

 

Gonna investigate what i can really do with this engine

[sinoth]

yeah, the multiplayer levels could use some more size/interaction, something that has been nearly perfected in JK levels. you have to remember, though, that JK's been around forever, and we don't even have a true editor for JK2 yet once we get it, though, expect to see mods/levels/skins coming from everywhere... I can't wait...

[NI Knight of Ni]

You have to keep in mind that Even though something is behind a wall, does not mean its not being drawn. In quake, the engine draw from furthest to closest.

 

Even with the GeForce 3 and 4's Per pixel shading, its still a limitation in the engine.

 

Thus preventing professional level designers to create the star wars maps that people would not complain about. Basicly, in JK_Streets map the goal of the level designer was equil sides and as minimal ammount of walls possible. The less edged corners the better.

 

As it is, playing on a GeForce 2 MX, in certain areas you see dramatic decrease in performance. I know the the GeForce 2 MX is only 90 dollars, but the target market is probly a Geforce 1 or TNT2. Most developers are aware the majority of the market do not have High end video adapters that ATI and nvidia provide.

[Infinity]

Since my knowledge of the Q3 engine is somewhat lacking, feel free to ignore this if it's incorrect.

 

When you compile up a .bsp file, the VIS program actually chops up your level into several chuncks of level. The sections are divided such that every section can see all adajecent sections, but not every one in the level.

 

What this means is that if I stand on one side of the level and you're on the other side, but there's walls seperating us such that I can't move within my chunk of level so that I can see you, you will not be drawn by my machine. In fact, every chunk of the level that isn't VISIBLE from my perspective isn't drawn. Hence VIS.

 

One of the reasons MP levels are feeling so boxy is because Raven (for some odd reason) decided that it would be a good idea to make every section of every level visible to every other section of that level. So everything is getting drawn by the computer. (Or at least alot of it) Which makes for small and uncomplex, though brutally quick and violent levels. Everythings a tradeoff. I'm sure the J.O. comunity will improve on this with time.

 

 

Also, JK ran on a different engine, on that treated NPC's completely differently than J.O. I think it's unlikely that the native Quake 3 alows monster entities (wandering citizens) to be added to MP levels, though I bet a clever coder could do it.

 

The problem is that J.O's NPC models have hundereds and hundereds of polygons, which would slow down MP gameplay considerably if you had a few innocent bystandards on screen at the same time.

 

It's important to balance level interaction (stuff that you can do within a level), player interest (stuff that's wiz cool), connectivity (how well the level connects and attaches with it'self for smoth MP), and speed (wether the map is playable in the end.

 

Remember, J.O. supports 32 players. Imagine what would happen if you had 31 little stormtroppers running around plus 5 NPCS plus supper complex architecture in a gigantic city street where everything is getting rendered simotatneously.

 

It would be bad.

[UniKorn]

You're almost completely wrong. I am not THE SPECIALIST, but I learned quite a lot about the process.

 

The bsp process divided the worlds in different chuncks and portals. Which means, that if I am in chunk1, the engine will draw EVERY other chunk that can be "seen" from chunk1. But seen is not as in the stuff that you see.

 

The bsp process checks if 1 point from chunk1 can see 1 point from another chunk. If it does not, then that chunk will NOT be rendered by the engine.

 

How can we help the engine in doing so? By using structural and detailed brushes. Structural brushes will tell the engine that he has to "break the vis process".

 

Now you'll say : I created 2 rooms, put a structural brush in the middle, and yet it still renders the stuff behind the wall. That is because you are still thinking wrong, you should not think in terms of what I can see, but what the chunk I am standing in sees. And if 1 point of my chunk sees 1 point of the chunk behind the structural wall, it will still draw it.

 

Then why not make everything structural? VIS-ing your map takes a lot of time, and the more structural brushes, the longer it will take. Understanding the vis process is a huge advantage since you can "guess" which walls are important for the vis process. Those that aren't can be detail => the engine won't bother breaking up the vis => shorter compile times.

 

Hint brushses help the vis process as well, but I'll explain that later on, first try to understand this. If you has questions, don't hesitate.

 

UniKorn

Project Lead / Mapper for Wired Lamp Studios

http://www.wiredlampstudios.com