K, there is a lot of whining about rules, from both sides, heres what i think

[Corran2015]

Okay, to a certain extent, there should be some rules, not some pansy little jedi code that some little 12 year old pretending to be a jedi thought up on a caffiene high, not to mention the effects of other drugs that some clans seem to be under when they think up their little jedi ideals.

 

I will address certain issues seperately.

 

First, lets get this out of the way, any idiots who say Kill or Be Killed, okay, this is a good rule to A CERTAIN EXTENT. Yeah, this is based on quake 3's engine, an intense game, yet quake 3 never allowed players to employ powers like grip and lightning, or a saber for that matter. I think its okay to use those 3 things, the grip and lighting not so often though. Yes its part of the game, but people, you got to understand, it is annoying, okay, maybe its not nice, who cares, I use it sometimes too, and i never hesitate to throw a bot over the edge of the firing area of the death star, or even dropping him within the danger area and quickly and sadistically hitting the fire laser console as i back up. But crap, it annoys human players. Some shield this with "Its not jedi-like" or "its unfair", and okay, so its sorta cheap, but the key fact is your an annoyance, you're like martha stewart, you just never go away, you could make Ghandi snap.

 

Second, sabers being turned off as a sign to STOP FREAKIN ATTACKING! Okay, lots of people who don't even read the rules when it says saber off = peace cant' seem to figure out why people hate them or booted them even. Think of it this way, a guy is leaving a multiple person saber fight in the death star hangar. He turns his saber off, instead of continuing with the others, you chase after the guy with his saber off. Hes running backwards, saber off, in a saber only server, you call him a p***y or a newb, YOUR CHASING AN UNARMED MAN WHOS EVIDENTLY LOW ON HEALTH JUST FOR AN EXTRA POINT HOW MUCH WORSE THAN A NEWB CAN YOU GET???????????? Then when everyone is angry at you you say its their fault and that anyone who gets angry when they die is a newb. Dude, you probably saw the rules that said saber off = peace, you probably continuously ignored that rule, either your too stupid to comprehend that that means LAY OFF THE FREAKIN SWINGING, or your just too ignorant to care that it means what i just said.

 

Third

I think that there should be a mod that disables or weakens the effects of grip and lightning, i even half-serious half-jokingly said a mod that presented a 50 percent chance of just instantly killing a person who uses grip or lighting would be a beautiful and popular thing. Maybe kick that percentage up to 75, in case you encounter some real newbs, maybe make it an adjustable thing.

 

Fourth, there are going to be people from both sides of the arguement that disagree or agree with me, knowing the people that say kill or be killed, they'll disagree, just cuz its their nature to be stupid and ignorant. I'm writing this at 5:40 am, i need to go make some more coffee, but I will probably reply to this thread with more stuff on this topic once i've either made the coffee or gotten soem sleep. If i'm a jerk, yeah, i've just deprived myself of hours of sleep here, so dont' bother even saying i'm a jerk.

I gotta go through this thing and make some of the stuff i said doesn't get me banned or something.

 

Oh, and another thing, i'm neutral on this, because I'm not totally a passifist, but i don't be cheap with my fighting and force use either. All we've got so far are people from either side that are blind to other point of views. I can understand part of some things. And if some parts of this post disagree with other parts i've said, its cuz i'm really really tired, give me a break.

[Moolamb]

Most of your stuff is right. I have some minor gripes though:

 

. Think of it this way, a guy is leaving a multiple person saber fight in the death star hangar. He turns his saber off, instead of continuing with the others, you chase after the guy with his saber off. Hes running backwards, saber off, in a saber only server, you call him a p***y or a newb, YOUR CHASING AN UNARMED MAN WHOS EVIDENTLY LOW ON HEALTH JUST FOR AN EXTRA POINT HOW MUCH WORSE THAN A NEWB CAN YOU GET????????????

 

That's just like saying - oh no i'm going to die. Don't hurt me so I can heal and come back and kill you.

 

I think that there should be a mod that disables or weakens the effects of grip and lightning

 

Please don't lose my respect by saying that... Grip and lightning are good absorb fodder.

 

What I DO agree with, is try to be honorable when you can. When someone's obviously not trying to kill you, don't try and kill them.

 

Oh and the biggest point - quit whining.

[Digital_Ronin]

Well, I see it that way... force gripping (and the like) in JediOutcast is what AWP-Sniping is in CounterStrike.

 

It's cheap, it's easy, it gets you a good score and - it gets you a bad reputation. But the thing is, there isn't really anything one could do against it in terms of 'rules'. How long have people been complaining about 'campers', 'AWP-lamers' and 'AK-Snipers' in CS? And what has changed since then?

 

Nothing.

 

As sure as people will be cheating on JO servers soon, there won't ever be a 'consensus' between players concerning things like killing people with lightsaber switched off, forcegripping and so on.

 

IT_GIVES_ONE_AN_ADVANTAGE_SO_PEOPLE_WILL_DO_IT.

 

Although I'd really LOVE to see a consensus like that, since it would make the game more 'honorable', more 'epic', yes, lets say it: more 'jedi-like', it won't ever happen.

 

There are always n00bs who don't know about such rules and, what's more important, there are always a**holes who just don't give a f*ck about them. (mind my language...)

 

As for implementing some kind of scripted 'anti-grip-penalty'... bad idea. It would change the game a lot. And things like that simply aren't accepted by the lions share of the community, - because the lions share of the community tends to act like a stupid mob.

So, if there would ever be such a ... maybe a 'mod'?... then it would sure only be accepted and used by maybe 25% of the people who are playing online. The rest would simply go search another server without it and keep doing the stuff.

 

So, I agree with you on some points - especially on that 'lightsaber off' thing, although somewhat less on the forcegripping business, but let's face it : things like that won't come true.

 

Digital_Ronin

[Abom|nation]

Originally posted by Digital_Ronin

Well, I see it that way... force gripping (and the like) in JediOutcast is what AWP-Sniping is in CounterStrike.

 

It's cheap, it's easy, it gets you a good score and - it gets you a bad reputation. But the thing is, there isn't really anything one could do against it in terms of 'rules'. How long have people been complaining about 'campers', 'AWP-lamers' and 'AK-Snipers' in CS? And what has changed since then?

 

 

Heya Ronin, nice to see you here!

 

Anyway - i'm going to have to disagree with you on the Force Grip thing, i'd say force gripping is like Scout-Sniping in Counter-Strike... it's slow, it's cumbersome and it's generally harder to use than force push or pull.

 

Besides, a quick push or pull destroys a force grip plus usually renders the gripper slumped on the floor, vulnerable to attack.

 

In my opinion, Draining is more like AWP-Sniping from Counter-Strike, but that's just my opinion.

[Krak3n]

Not rules again....ugh.

I play by my own set of rules, they are the following.

 

1) Treat You opponent(s) with respect, i.e, don't call them names etc etc.

 

2) Enjoy the game

 

3) Always kill ppl standing still because they could be 'playing dead'. As soon as i run past, they pull out their rocket launcher and shoot me in the back. yes it's cheap but it does happen.

 

4) Try to ignore whiners.

 

5) Try to ignore people who insult me. (Note the key word, try, if u really piss me off i will fight back, but i prefer to settle differences on the battle feild or ognore u completly, i don't need to prove anything to u).

 

Thats it. I'll play the way i want to play.

 

Now can we drop all these rule threads and just play this superb game?

[Digital_Ronin]

Abom?!?

 

*grins* You caught me. I'm constantly switching windows between PlanetDeusEx forums and here these days.

 

So hi there! Really nice to see a familiar face!

 

Digital_Ronin

[Abom|nation]

And you, man - I love JK2, but I had a recent problem, so i've been hanging around on the forums for a bit - i'll probably visit frequently.

 

Anyway, back on topic

[Belial6672]

I sort of agree with some points people have made on this thread. Whenever someone shuts down their saber in front of me I withdraw..cos most of the time they are wanting to tell me something etc...if they do ,do it to regain their health then i make sure that I do kill them lol.

As for force powers....well its part of the parcel isnt it..we all have the ability to do the same back..its not cheating if everyone can do it. I regulaly use "push" on the ctf map Bespin when I am defending the flag base..easy to defend cos all you have to do is push the opponent off the edge. Is this annoying..possibly but it is my defense strategy..to counteract it, simply do the same to me or kill me. Some powers are a bit overused I agree (personally I dont like drain) but it is there for everyone to use, just find a way to counteract it.....

 

Anyone agree here

 

Belial

[Lithic]

Ok, I have to say that I just think some people are blowing this whole grip issue WAY out of proportions, I mean honestly there are so many ways to counter it that its not even funny.

You can push/pull them, you can drain them before they grip you, you can absorb and you can even saber throw them to death (if they are low on health). I mean pick one.

And if they try to drain you before the grip you so to turn you defenseless, just turn on absorb the second they turn on drain, or make sure you drain them before they drain you.

 

And as for the lightning I just don’t see it as any problem what so ever, you can just easily run or even jump away from it without it doing more then some 10-20 in damage, or you could absorb or drain again.

 

As for the whole saber-down thingy, I think that if someone is just standing in a corner with saber off, of course you ignore them, I mean that’s just common courtesy to me, kind of how when someone is standing waiting for the bus you don’t walk up and kick them in the nuts. Likewise if they walk/run up to me with their saber down i don’t attack, because they are probably trying to challenge me.

But if someone does it just so they can run away from a battle just because they are low on health, then no, they get a saber in the back one way or another. Trying to use that kind of courtesy-rule to run away simply because you are losing a battle is IMO even cheaper then cutting a running man down from behind. If you get into a battle either stay till one of you dies or run away with you saber up, don’t try to measly your way out of a losing battle by turning your saber off.

[RedHerring]

First of all: Can you tell if someone is a light Jedi or dark Jedi just by looking at them?

 

If so, if someone is a dark Jedi and turns their saber off while running away from you, I'd stop chasing and see if they stop to type something. If not, then I'd just force push them to the ground and let them go.

 

If not, I'd assume that you would want to go and hide to heal yourself if you fleed from a battle, so I would still force push you down, just to let you know you're being watched.

[Crazysheep]

And I'll pop in to say hello too. Hello Abom and Ronin!

[Abom|nation]

Heya CrazySheep, do you have any opinions on the topic?

 

Anyway, as far as I know - you can't tell if someone is a light or a dark jedi just by looking at them, it's all in the powers that they use.

[Crazysheep]

On the original, there was a "DarkKyle" model in multiplayer. It would be good if your characters appearance changed if you used more dark powers than good.

[Digital_Ronin]

Originally posted by Crazysheep

[...]changed if you used more dark powers than good.

 

Really a nice idea - or they could at least include some 'seduced by the darkside' skins for Kyle, Jan and the others.

 

Btw, greetings Crazysheep - seems like the PDX invasion is rolling.

 

Digital_Ronin

[Essobie]

Originally posted by Corran2015

First, lets get this out of the way, any idiots who say Kill or Be Killed, okay, this is a good rule to A CERTAIN EXTENT. Yeah, this is based on quake 3's engine, an intense game, yet quake 3 never allowed players to employ powers like grip and lightning, or a saber for that matter.

 

Q3A sure did... you just never bothered to play the Superheroes Quake III mod. There is in fact, a Light Saber in it, as well as way more powers than what is in JK2. See for yourself.

 

 

I think this is the main problem with the opinion of these "saber off = peace" rules. The people who want them have a really narrow experience with what FFA is, and the mindset of people who play it a lot.

 

Whether you like getting cut down while you are "defenseless" because someone is looking for easy kills or not is irrelevant because you are playing in THEIR gametype... they aren't required to play in your made up gametype which does not currently exist.

 

And another problem I have with this thread is that the original poster could have posted in existing threads on the subject instead of starting a new one with "this is what I think" in the subject line.

 

If you are afraid that what you type may be ignored by the masses because it is among 100 other posts in the same thread, then you probably shouldn't post on the subject at all.

 

Essobie

[Veng]

Good idea ^^

[Craggeh]

I have to agree wholeheartedly with Krak3n. His are very similar to the rules I play by, although if someone starts shooting their mouth off I tend to throw them a goofy smilie and carry on playing rather than shouting back - the more they attack, the more they get the smilie (I have a key bound to :> and n_n ready for such idiots).

 

People saying "Play like a jedi you gun lamer", always get my stormtrooper reply, I've yet to see one good comeback to "I'm not a jedi, I'm a stormtrooper".

 

Fun ^__________^

[Mafia_Jabba]

why tf do people always call something cheap if they get killed by it but its counterable? geeze luize

[white_lancer]

... thought better of it ...

[Desslock]

Here is the counter to the force grip counters.. Absorb is active. Grip is passive until activated. That means, that if the sithy wanted to, all he had to do is just wait until absorb ran out and perform his little combo. Secondly, if someone is spinning you around with grip, how are you supposed to push out of it? The effect is so disorienting, it makes me wish I was sick.

 

I believe there is a definitive problem with the dark side. It may not be as serious as some people make it out to be, but it is quite obvious the designers did not intend to force everyone to play the dark side just to compete.

[Lithic]

Here is the counter to the force grip counters.. Absorb is active. Grip is passive until activated. That means, that if the sithy wanted to, all he had to do is just wait until absorb ran out and perform his little combo.

 

Well if you let him just wait around until absorb runs out then you've really got no one to blame but yourself. Either kill him or just get out before absorb runs out. Of course if you just stand there your going to die, that's kind of a no-brainer.

 

Secondly, if someone is spinning you around with grip, how are you supposed to push out of it? The effect is so disorienting, it makes me wish I was sick.

 

Ok, now that can be kind of tricky sometimes, mostly I don’t have much of a problem with it though. You see with push and pull you don’t have to target your enemy directly (but I’m sure you already knew that) so you can just fire in his general direction and it will usually work. And if you turn on absorb after he grabs you then you don’t have to see him or target him, it will still let go.

[Shoany]

As pointed out, drain+lightning is ridiculous. Why? Well blame drain. It has a huge range, sucks very little force power out of the user, drains instantly from the victim, AND restores health to the user. What's the counter to lightning? Absorb, heal, drain. Can you do any of those after being drained? No. You can keep absorb on, but you might as well let yourself be drained, because nobody will drain a glowing blue enemy.

 

I discovered last night in a duel server that a lightning/drain monkey can be wholly slaughtered again and again by a good saberist... all i had to do was rush the guy into a corner/obstacle while he drained me of force power i'd already sapped, then kick his face and cut him in two. Often I'd let him drain his own force pool while running away and taunting before i'd raise a finger. On FFA servers, however, you get no such privacy, and while one full burst of lightning will not kill you, two or three will. And, if it's on a larger map, the drainer has but to back away constantly to be effectively invincible.

 

Solutions: Any of the following:

 

1. Drain drains much more slowly.

2. Drain uses much more force power.

3. Drain does not restore health.

4. Drain has shorter range.

5. Drain+lightning slow you down are stop you outright.

6. Combination of any 2 of the above.

7. Absorb uses much less force.

8. Absorb is not externally evident. (no blue glow)

9. Absorb is passive. (but perhaps not 100% effective, for example at l3 it will absorb maybe 75%) This will go with one or two of 1-5.

 

Regarding "honour": In duel servers and in FFA duels, I believe that playing "like a jedi" will yield the most fun and the most skill-based play. I had a number of amazing movie-like duels with a bunch of equally amazing players last night... including a Ninja Gaiden-style duel (that... was cool.) where we both agreed we would go at it, no healing, until one of us was dead. I had a bunch of "no active force" duels that were pretty thrilling as well. Fun stuff. In FFA, however, you can't expect everyone to abide by such agreements. You WILL get grip-monkeyed. You WILL get pushed and pulled constantly. You WILL get drain+lightninged. So the answer is, play dirty. Win by whatever means necessary, and by all means engage in as many duels as you can. =D

 

Saber-down = peace. In context, yes. If at the beginning of a duel (on a duel server) the guy stands still and lowers his guard, I'll do the same and wait. If in the middle of a fight he lowers his guard, I will take that as taunting (I do it too). You can plead for time at the beginning of a fight, but if engaged, you can't assume to "wait wait hold hold damnit" unless you're way at the other end of the map and you say "wait" before I have a chance to hit you. If somone lowers his sabre in mid-fight at throwing range, I will throw. If there is no reaction, I might stop and ask "ready?". However, nothing binds me to that. On duel servers, delays are worse than death. I'd rather die personally than have to wait a long time. So if that happens, I'll run behind and backstab. No honour, but at least the fight's over and now i can get to killing someone who's paying attention. And what's all this about FFA saber-off? In FFA there is no honour among non-duelists. If you have your saber down, you're inviting me to kill you. If you're AFK, go spectator. You can't expect people to wait for you while you regather your senses (and health) in the middle of what is effectively war. I don't grip, lightning, or drain, but I do heal. I love a good saber fight. But people as a group are cruel and stupid, so I can't be so naive as to expect honour from them.

 

Final piece of advice: Play mostly with people you know to be honourable.

[Corran2015]

I kept as much of an objective opinion as possible. AT LEAST back up what you saying with 1 or 2 quotes and reasons why that makes me a whiner. Otherwise, f**k off lamer.

[Canis_Aureus]

Grip is fine as it is... easy to defend against. Lightning is no problem - either use absorb or drain to counter it. Just save your drain for those lightning guys... then you're safe. Absorb shouldn't be made more powerful... it is fine as it is, BUT perhaps the initial power cost to start it is a bit steep... but not a big problem.

 

DRAIN on the other hand has some issues. You cannot defend yourself very well because the drain is too fast on lvl3 and it has a damn wide arc of fire. You don't get any power when drained and absorb is active... another problem. Drain lvl2 is actually pretty fine... that is how good lvl3 should have been.

 

Suggestions for drain:

- Absorb should give you power when drained.

- The amount of power drained should be the same as the amout the dark jedi uses.

- The arc of fire should be much smaller. Range should increase with level though.

- The draining speed should be much slower.

- Drain should have a few seconds warmup before it started draining.

 

This might mean that dark side Jedi will have a problem with lightning. Lightning also has a too wide firing arc IMO... it's just a fire and forget type of power... and a powerful one. The damage would be fine if only the arc of fire wasn't so damn wide...

 

I think the rest of the powers are pretty well balanced.

[Chiss Lord]

Overall I agree. The scores don't mean anything: it's skill. You win the game when the other player comes out of it remembering how you massacred them in ways they couldn't even begin to attempt. What do you prove by using cheap moves? Nothing. You just give them a chance to prove they're too good to be affected by it.

 

BTW, the easiest answer to grip is push.

 

Also, in most games a set of rules are made at the beginning. I've been in some that outlaw heal (from the original JK) which drove me crazy but if you want to play on that server play the host's rules. There are plenty of just kill everything games where people don't care.